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Creatine and endurance in high rep range

Matsuo Munefusa

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Does anybody else lose endurance in high rep range on creatine (20-30 rep range). I loved creatine, haven’t used it for years though but the past year I’ve been training almost exclusively in super high rep range because of injuries that have almost debilitated me. Lower reps flare the old injuries up and make my life miserable so this is my work around because I fucking love training.

Recently added creatine back in and noticed that my endurance is noticeably down (perhaps at 80% where I was just last week without creatine). I don’t think I need a deload. Just curious if anybody else noticed this.

The only other changes I made was drop orals (adrol) about two weeks ago and reduced my test dose to a true TRT but I’ve never noticed that to have a NEGATIVE effect on endurance...if anything I function better endurance wise with less androgens...
 

airman

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I never noticed that with Creatine. I know you say dropping doses never had a negative effect on endurance, but my logic is that adrol and higher test dosage makes you stronger, so better endurance. Less androgens, might be a bit of a strength drop, less endurance. I would think that's more likely than the creatine.
 

jeroendebleser

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I never noticed that with Creatine. I know you say dropping doses never had a negative effect on endurance, but my logic is that adrol and higher test dosage makes you stronger, so better endurance. Less androgens, might be a bit of a strength drop, less endurance. I would think that's more likely than the creatine.
Agreed. I also don't think the Creatine has anything to do with it, rather what airman said. Especially dropping the Adrol.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Agreed. I also don't think the Creatine has anything to do with it, rather what airman said. Especially dropping the Adrol.
I guess that’s it guys, just strange I felt the endurance drop 2 weeks later after dropping the drol and I added the creatine, I lost weight almost immediately coming off the drol and I didn’t feel a strength drop right away. I almost started to discount whether it was doing much at all but maybe I was under estimating it since I did have super productive workouts on it :)

Moral of the story, Anadrol is some good shit? :)
 

jeroendebleser

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I guess that’s it guys, just strange I felt the endurance drop 2 weeks later after dropping the drol and I added the creatine, I lost weight almost immediately coming off the drol and I didn’t feel a strength drop right away. I almost started to discount whether it was doing much at all but maybe I was under estimating it since I did have super productive workouts on it :)

Moral of the story, Anadrol is some good shit? :)
Adrol is one of the best steroids imo, at least as far as effectiveness goes 😀 It's (again imo) unmatched for strength and instant size.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Adrol is one of the best steroids imo, at least as far as effectiveness goes It's (again imo) unmatched for strength and instant size.
I miss it already but I’m back on TRT and I am pleased with the gains I made. It wasn’t until after I came off the drol and GH that I realized how much sharper I became. Didn’t take long either, about 6 weeks starting with just 25mg/day and ramped up to 75mg/day. I love it. Be nice to sit on 100g of powder someday, semi lifetime supply probably :)
 

SOUR DIESEL

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Does anybody else lose endurance in high rep range on creatine (20-30 rep range). I loved creatine, haven’t used it for years though but the past year I’ve been training almost exclusively in super high rep range because of injuries that have almost debilitated me. Lower reps flare the old injuries up and make my life miserable so this is my work around because I fucking love training.

Recently added creatine back in and noticed that my endurance is noticeably down (perhaps at 80% where I was just last week without creatine). I don’t think I need a deload. Just curious if anybody else noticed this.


^^^actually CREATINE seems to do the opposite (..it increase endurance)


LINK to STUDY;

Oral creatine supplementation's decrease of blood lactate during exhaustive, incremental cycling​


"Results: Lactate concentrations were reduced during exercise after supplementation, demonstrating a significant condition effect (p = .041). There was a tendency for increased power at the lactate threshold (Pre 128 ± 45 W, Post 143 ± 26 W; p = .11). Total time to fatigue approached significant increases (Pre 22.6 ± 3.2 min, Post 23.3 ± 3.3 min; p = .056), as did maximal power output (Pre 212.5 ± 32.5 W, Post 220 ± 34.6 W; p = .082).

Conclusions: Our findings demonstrate that creatine supplementation decreases lactate during incremental cycling exercise and tends to raise lactate threshold. Therefore, creatine supplementation could potentially benefit endurance athletes."


.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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^^^actually CREATINE seems to do the opposite (..it increase endurance)


LINK to STUDY;

Oral creatine supplementation's decrease of blood lactate during exhaustive, incremental cycling​


"Results: Lactate concentrations were reduced during exercise after supplementation, demonstrating a significant condition effect (p = .041). There was a tendency for increased power at the lactate threshold (Pre 128 ± 45 W, Post 143 ± 26 W; p = .11). Total time to fatigue approached significant increases (Pre 22.6 ± 3.2 min, Post 23.3 ± 3.3 min; p = .056), as did maximal power output (Pre 212.5 ± 32.5 W, Post 220 ± 34.6 W; p = .082).

Conclusions: Our findings demonstrate that creatine supplementation decreases lactate during incremental cycling exercise and tends to raise lactate threshold. Therefore, creatine supplementation could potentially benefit endurance athletes."


.
Is this true in your experience though? I’ve done a lot of endurance based shit and creatine always seems to create that deep pump that doesn’t really go away. A pumped muscle is never going to be as useful for endurance as one that isn’t pumped, just my experience though. Curious how your experience compares to the study and whether you notice any difference especially in higher rep ranges.
 

Fa Seeshus

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Low dose drol is great for endurance...not only by boosting rbc, but think about the muscle fullness... That is water and stored glycogen, two things that really help endurance performance.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Yeah but remember those labs were done at a high level of mg's. I think it was like 10 times the amount recommended for guys like us. Don't quote me on that but that's kinda what I remember.
That’s what I’ve been telling myself about it, hopefully that is right. You’re right though it really does give a nice endurance boost. I may hop back on it. I went off everything other than test to try to find some kind of baseline. Might be time to add some shit like cardarine back in though.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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Possibly look towards things that increase your VO2 max like Peak02 and adding beta-alanine if you are not already doing so.
Best of luck on finding the solution.
 

UsmcOldSchoolMuscle

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specter

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Personally i respond great on creatine, i get 2-3 reps extra in the tank and i put on 3-4lbs in a couple weeks from the water retention/fuller muscles. Usually i use 5gram a day, have tried higher doses like 10gram a day and didnt really do much difference for me.
 

tkav1980

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It seems to have no effect, positive or negative on endurance.
 

DarrenG29

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Yeah I personally never found creatine to effect me I’d say it’s the anadrol or something else

is it just pure creatine powder or a mix blend.
 

Kaladryn

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Makes perfect sense, more creatine would mean more ATP on-demand means more anaerobic metabolism, which is far less efficient and produces more byproducts, rather than more aerobic metabolism which is far more efficient (by a factor of almost 20).

I'm surprised everyone in this thread didn't think this, perhaps a basic understanding of cellular metabolism and what creatine actually does is missing?

That being said, the effect of creatine is so small I don't know how you could tell.
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Makes perfect sense, more creatine would mean more ATP on-demand means more anaerobic metabolism, which is far less efficient and produces more byproducts, rather than more aerobic metabolism which is far more efficient (by a factor of almost 20).

I'm surprised everyone in this thread didn't think this, perhaps a basic understanding of cellular metabolism and what creatine actually does is missing?

That being said, the effect of creatine is so small I don't know how you could tell.
I’ve always THOUGHT it messed with endurance. My bro science way of thinking is creatine always got me more pumped, more pumped means less of an ability to stay aerobic, going anaerobic you are never going to last as long...

Regardless of my stupid bro science, I have found my workouts have improved dropping the creatine. I don’t have as debilitating a pump as I had with them in the 25-35 rep range (yes I’m trying super high reps for shoulders on JMs advice). I’ll reintroduce creatine when I drop back to my 10-15 rep range.
 

Kaladryn

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Also, think the phosphagen energy system is limited to short bursts of energy, it is short bursts of energy from a cellular standpoint, in individual motor units that are firing. So even someone who doing endurance activity (like running for example) is still using the phosphagen energy system to a small extent as individual motor units are working in short bursts, always. The same is true of the aerobic metabolism and low reps. The differences are what is the limiting factor? Inability to supply oxygen fast enough to continue being primarily aerobic, lack of sufficient ATP to stay anaerobic, or inability to clear anaerobic waste products.
 

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