Cutting - Deficit via expenditure vs Caloric intake

[gauge22-v2]

Morning,

I am at the point where fat loss has stalled, but I am loathe to reduce calories further.

Do you prefer increasing your caloric expenditure (cardio etc) vs cutting calories further when you stall?

Is adding activity more beneficial in regards to retaining muscle vs cutting calories?

 

[bigzzz]

Move more, eat more(up to a certain point of course) i.m.o.

 

[Ace0]

Move more, eat more(up to a certain point of course) i.m.o.

Have to agree with this one. A person who diet on high calories looks/feels better than low calories with less movement, I think a lot of it has to do with just micronutrients and the psychological effect (anti-stress) of having food coming consistently.

 

[b-boy]

I have at age 51 had a change of mind regarding this. If I am not very active then I don't eat much food, I prefer a PSMF type of diet where I eat very low calories but I have a carbohydrate refeed every 5-7 days, I have never lost fat more efficiently than I do this method.

In the past I was a move more eat more type of guy.

 

[qbkilla]

I say to lose weight reduce calories. If your already super low it can be tough, could add. Cardio sessions but I don't think it will be as effective. How many calories are you at? I second psmf, even combine with intermittent fasting. 2400 calories spread all day or never feel full be starving. 2400 from 4 pm to bed I can feel ok, have some decent sized meals. Pre, post, before bed

 

[slesh]

I am not being facetious - move more eat less inject a lot of GH.

 

[Tomgrass]

I have at age 51 had a change of mind regarding this. If I am not very active then I don't eat much food, I prefer a PSMF type of diet where I eat very low calories but I have a carbohydrate refeed every 5-7 days, I have never lost fat more efficiently than I do this method.

In the past I was a move more eat more type of guy.

Agree - daily changes like on tren without a tren. Plus you never hungry as you eat around 300 grams protein and a lot of veg.

 

[td]

You need a 500 calorie daily deficit to lose 1 lb of bodyfat a week. If you're shooting for 2 lbs of fat loss a week, that's 1000 calorie daily deficit required. Depending on your size, you might not burn 500 calories during an hour of cardio.

I do both. Less food, more cardio, more steps. In incremental amounts.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

It depends really on how little you are eating, and how much you are already moving. Also, what you are going to adhere to best.

 

[tjitsu]

I like both, also eating more on training days and less on others works great and allows me to eat less in a week span.

Also if you can hack it PSMF is great and fast!

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

I personally like to pull on the levers of diet, output and drugs sequentially and incrementally to reduce bodies ability to reach homeostasis and minimise the fatigue and stress associated with hammering any give pathway.

For example I will start my cut from a position of maintenance with a weight training and base cardio program I will follow for the duration of the cut being already established. I will then deduct 500kcals per day from calorie intake and ride this until weight loss slows significantly or stalls - IME this alone can last a good 6 weeks or so

Once weight loss begins to stall I'll increase cardio output be around 10-15 minutes per session and add extra 2000 steps on off days - generally can be accomplished by life style changes like walking to and from work/gym as opposed to conscious effort

Once weight loss slows again you could then choose to implement a fat burn at a lowish dose.

Then once stalled again back to diet, reduce 200kcals per day etc

 

[gauge22-v2]

I say to lose weight reduce calories. If your already super low it can be tough, could add. Cardio sessions but I don't think it will be as effective. How many calories are you at? I second psmf, even combine with intermittent fasting. 2400 calories spread all day or never feel full be starving. 2400 from 4 pm to bed I can feel ok, have some decent sized meals. Pre, post, before bed

I am sitting at 2500ish per day. Upped steps (treadmill or walking outside) to 13,000/day.

PSMF on non-workout days and pushing my first meal by a few hours is a good suggestion.

I have no problem adding in more activity as weather is getting nice and my boxer dog has never ending energy.

For stims I have only added in 5mg Yohimbine pre-fasted activity in the am, with 4ius GH.

I still really curious what approach preserves muscle the best.

Assuming training AND protein intake are the same:

- If one gets a 500 deficit from diet only, what is the impact on muscle "wasting"?
- What if the same person had a 500 deficit from cardio/activity and kept calories at their "normal" TDEE?
- Is there a MAX deficit from caloric intake that should not be breached? IE: Say my TDEE is normally 3,000, perhaps going below 20% deficit (600 calories) is the max and the additional deficit, if required, should come from activity?

 

[alfresco]

I am lazy.

Don’t like to exercise.

So I would rather eat less.

 

[Fleezy]

I have at age 51 had a change of mind regarding this. If I am not very active then I don't eat much food, I prefer a PSMF type of diet where I eat very low calories but I have a carbohydrate refeed every 5-7 days, I have never lost fat more efficiently than I do this method.

In the past I was a move more eat more type of guy.

What do your macros look like during this psmf phase of your diet?

 

[b-boy]

What do your macros look like during this psmf phase of your diet?

It's a little different on different days yesterday for example was
275 protein
46 carbs (veggies and 100g of blueberries)
44 fat - from beef and a little pork rinds

Workout days are around 300 protein and everything else is about the same, some days I don't eat beef and fat is super low but these days are mostly after refeed days.

Very low cals but I'm only getting around 10,000 steps lately as we are having a shutdown at work and my unit is idle most days so I'm sitting on my ass. Refeed days are rotated between either just a higher carb day 400g or so or I have two large cheat meals (pizza, burgers, or whatever I'm craving).

 

[5Noles]

Below is John Jewett’s general rule of thumb.

Maco’s cannot drop below:
Protein 1.0-1.5g Fat .3-.7g Carb. 1.0-3.0g per lb of body weight.
-Note: As maco’s approach lower end of macro’s increase cardio.

 

[BigNattyDaddy420]

With reducing calories, you’re pretty much guaranteed the deficit you’re looking for if you’re tracking semi accurately. With more energy expenditure, it’s much harder to track how much extra you’re burning off.

That being said, personally, I knew my net calorie deficit was the same, I would prefer to eat more and move more. But to support the opposing idea, I definitely have noticed that cardio increases my hunger.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

I am sitting at 2500ish per day. Upped steps (treadmill or walking outside) to 13,000/day.

PSMF on non-workout days and pushing my first meal by a few hours is a good suggestion.

I have no problem adding in more activity as weather is getting nice and my boxer dog has never ending energy.

For stims I have only added in 5mg Yohimbine pre-fasted activity in the am, with 4ius GH.

I still really curious what approach preserves muscle the best.

Assuming training AND protein intake are the same:

- If one gets a 500 deficit from diet only, what is the impact on muscle "wasting"?
- What if the same person had a 500 deficit from cardio/activity and kept calories at their "normal" TDEE?
- Is there a MAX deficit from caloric intake that should not be breached? IE: Say my TDEE is normally 3,000, perhaps going below 20% deficit (600 calories) is the max and the additional deficit, if required, should come from activity?

5mg yohimbine is too low of a dose, your dose should be 0.2mg/Kg of bodyweight, for best results you need to be completely fasted (as little circulating insulin as possible). Even the slightest bit of insulin pretty much shuts down the alpha 2-adrenergic receptor antagonist properties...you can also pair with 2g L-Tyroisne, and 200mg caffeine for the most effective combo.

another thing you can try to get your NEAT up without further cutting food is to wear weighted vest / clothes / ruck when walking your dog or doing anything where you are moving your body (pretty ineffective if just sitting around). The other reason we hit stalls behind metabolic rate slowing to adjust for lower intakes, is that it requires less calories to move the smaller lighter version of you through space. Replacing the lost weight with weighted clothing when moving requires the body to love our old load, and also ha some very preliminary research that it may even stave off some of the hormonal downregulation from getting leaner with regards to leptin and ghrelin.

I personally have had a lot of success doing this. I prefer one that looks like this. I have a 35lber, but because it wears like a pack and is made of sand it, it distributes weight evenly and is comfortable you truly don't even notice its there, but less than say a plate carrier style or just wearing a rucksack.

Obviously, you can just add and or up steady-state cardio as well, but if you are looking for some more convenient options, and enjoyable options its worth a try. I threw on the 35lb vest and go on a 40 minute dog walk and I am taking off a couple hundo extra cals without evening really "making an adjustment"

Lastly, I don't want to insult your intelligence because I am sure you already know this, but another tactic if you hate cutting food is just to do a diet comb-through. a lot of times even experienced dieters have, how do I say it, "calories on the table" no pun intended. Meaning there are places you can make a swap or an adjustment to your meals and suffer virtually no food volume / satiety losses but find an extra 100 up to sometimes 300 cals. Finding more voluminous options that are lower calorie. This is obviously very individual depending on what you are already eating and digestion etc, but swap one meal with rice out for cauli rice or palmini rice and free up 25grams of carbs or switch from 93/7 to 96/4 beef and free up a few fats.

 

[BigNattyDaddy420]

5mg yohimbine is too low of a dose, your dose should be 0.2mg/Kg of bodyweight, for best results you need to be completely fasted (as little circulating insulin as possible). Even the slightest bit of insulin pretty much shuts down the alpha 2-adrenergic receptor antagonist properties...you can also pair with 2g L-Tyroisne, and 200mg caffeine for the most effective combo.

another thing you can try to get your NEAT up without further cutting food is to wear weighted vest / clothes / ruck when walking your dog or doing anything where you are moving your body (pretty ineffective if just sitting around). The other reason we hit stalls behind metabolic rate slowing to adjust for lower intakes, is that it requires less calories to move the smaller lighter version of you through space. Replacing the lost weight with weighted clothing when moving requires the body to love our old load, and also ha some very preliminary research that it may even stave off some of the hormonal downregulation from getting leaner with regards to leptin and ghrelin.

I personally have had a lot of success doing this. I prefer one that looks like this. I have a 35lber, but because it wears like a pack and is made of sand it, it distributes weight evenly and is comfortable you truly don't even notice its there, but less than say a plate carrier style or just wearing a rucksack.

Obviously, you can just add and or up steady-state cardio as well, but if you are looking for some more convenient options, and enjoyable options its worth a try. I threw on the 35lb vest and go on a 40 minute dog walk and I am taking off a couple hundo extra cals without evening really "making an adjustment"

Lastly, I don't want to insult your intelligence because I am sure you already know this, but another tactic if you hate cutting food is just to do a diet comb-through. a lot of times even experienced dieters have, how do I say it, "calories on the table" no pun intended. Meaning there are places you can make a swap or an adjustment to your meals and suffer virtually no food volume / satiety losses but find an extra 100 up to sometimes 300 cals. Finding more voluminous options that are lower calorie. This is obviously very individual depending on what you are already eating and digestion etc, but swap one meal with rice out for cauli rice or palmini rice and free up 25grams of carbs or switch from 93/7 to 96/4 beef and free up a few fats.

I take ECA+20mg Y pre fasted cardio, what does the l tyrosine do?

 

[juggy38]

I take ECA+20mg Y pre fasted cardio, what does the l tyrosine do?

It’s a precursor to dopamine…..the substance your jacking through the roof with ECA +Y