Deteriorating disc, No Squats! What to do?

[pt923]

I was having some sevier lower back pain when doing squats and leg press. My Dr. took some x-rays and let me know I have a deteriorating disc and bone spurs up my last 4 vertebrae. He said there's really nothing I can do because I am only 24 years old. I love to compete, and I am worried about my leg growth without being able to do squats or heavy leg press. I also can't do deadlifts, heavy shrugs, or heavy shoulder press. Right now for my legs i do a lot of 1 leg exercises (1 leg presses, 1 leg squats, lunges) so that I don't put too much weight on myself. My stats are: 24 years old, 5' 11", 230lbs off season, 205 for competitions. Before I was told this news I was squating 480 lbs and dead lifting 565 lbs. If anyone has any info or has experienced this please let me know, or if anyone can think of some good exercises I can do to get some size on please post them.

 

[jm425]

I too have deteriorating disks and I still do deads but I don't go heavy anymore. I use light and moderate weight and that keeps my back pain to a minimum. You could do back extensions if your spine is really fucked up. As for squats, I still do them but I do a lot more bb hack squats which is really easy on my back because i'm holding the bb in my hand and not putting all that weight on my back. Hope this helps.

 

[LEX]

I'm not in your shoes but I see your condition everyday and all I can say is that if you can delay you having to have it corrected I would do what ever it is to prolong your life before surgery. If that means going lighter and doing what ever ....I would strongly urge you to think about it.

 

[bruno85]

If you can't do any leg exercises with heavy spinal loading I would keep doing a lot of the single leg stuff you are doing and do the best you can with that. Is it ideal? Obviously not, but it's what you got. I had a knee surgery in March and have really gotten into single leg work and I think if you go hard on it you will not lose size and can even gain size. In my experience, Bulgarian split squats are the best single leg exercise I have used for keeping or building size. There are many different ways to load the weight, such as a barbell on your back, dumbells, or a new one that I tried holding the bar zercher style. You can also elevate your front foot to make it harder.

Another thing I HIGHLY recommend with your issue is hip belt squats. This seems like a strange exercise, but after trying it I will say it really does hit the quads well, and is great because there is no spinal loading. I have used this for about six months. At first it was due to an injury, but now I just like it.

Here is a link for the belt

You can use an E-Bar like this:
YouTube - Hip Belt Squat

Or you can get a loading pin and do them like this:
YouTube - Hip Belt Squat

If you are squatting 480, you may do better with the loading pin, but either way is cool.


I realize neither of these exercises are ideal, and things like squats would be more effective, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do while you're injured. I personally believe that you can make progresses with most exercises provided you work hard on them and focus on getting stronger. Good luck man, back issues suck. I had a back surgery myself and having disk deterioration. It's pretty common acutally, and eventually I think you will find you can resume normal stuff, but as long as you're in pain I would listen to your doc and avoid anything that hurts.

 

[Conan21]

Try this

Speed Squats
(hands behind head)-------------25 reps

alternate leg lunges
(hands behind head)-------------24 reps

Split jumps------------------------------24 reps
(hands behind head)
jump as high as you can in the air
and switch legs back and forth
*kind of like lunges but you are jumping in the air
and switching legs.

jump squats-----------------------24 reps
(hands behind head)
squat and explode/jump as high in the air
as you possibly can



this is all done with bodyweight only. do every movement as explosive as you possibly can and go all the way down. Little to no rest in between each exercise.


Go through the rotation as many times as you can. I doubt you will not be able to make it through 2 rotations without quiting.

Having the work capacity to go through 4 of these in a row is as productive as doing squats with 400 lbs.

try it and see how your legs feel the next day.

 

[shootfighter]

I know what you should do. First of all, there is a good chance that your Dr sucks and is an idot. I had the same diagnosis and i started seeing a chiropractor for a few months once a week and im 100 percent.

Most Doctors don't like chiropractors and vicaversa. why? idk, but its true. so don't be surprised if your doctor tells you not to see one.

The truth of the matter is that at 24 years of age, it is very very very unlikely that your spine is deteriorating. most likely the pain is coming from a sublecsation of your vertebra and can be fixed with some visits to the chiropractor.

x-rays are open for interpretation, so don't think that just because the doc told you one thing, its a fact. Hope this helps.

 

[gordo14]

I would say get a second opinion as well.

 

[pt923]

If you can't do any leg exercises with heavy spinal loading I would keep doing a lot of the single leg stuff you are doing and do the best you can with that. Is it ideal? Obviously not, but it's what you got. I had a knee surgery in March and have really gotten into single leg work and I think if you go hard on it you will not lose size and can even gain size. In my experience, Bulgarian split squats are the best single leg exercise I have used for keeping or building size. There are many different ways to load the weight, such as a barbell on your back, dumbells, or a new one that I tried holding the bar zercher style. You can also elevate your front foot to make it harder.

Another thing I HIGHLY recommend with your issue is hip belt squats. This seems like a strange exercise, but after trying it I will say it really does hit the quads well, and is great because there is no spinal loading. I have used this for about six months. At first it was due to an injury, but now I just like it.

Here is a link for the belt

You can use an E-Bar like this:
YouTube - Hip Belt Squat

Or you can get a loading pin and do them like this:
YouTube - Hip Belt Squat

If you are squatting 480, you may do better with the loading pin, but either way is cool.


I realize neither of these exercises are ideal, and things like squats would be more effective, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do while you're injured. I personally believe that you can make progresses with most exercises provided you work hard on them and focus on getting stronger. Good luck man, back issues suck. I had a back surgery myself and having disk deterioration. It's pretty common acutally, and eventually I think you will find you can resume normal stuff, but as long as you're in pain I would listen to your doc and avoid anything that hurts.

Thank you for your reply. I have actually never heard of a hip belt. This exercise looks pretty great though; it gives me hope. Do you have any idea of were to buy a good hip belt? I kinda just gotta play with the hand i'm delt.

 

[pt923]

I know what you should do. First of all, there is a good chance that your Dr sucks and is an idot. I had the same diagnosis and i started seeing a chiropractor for a few months once a week and im 100 percent.

Most Doctors don't like chiropractors and vicaversa. why? idk, but its true. so don't be surprised if your doctor tells you not to see one.

The truth of the matter is that at 24 years of age, it is very very very unlikely that your spine is deteriorating. most likely the pain is coming from a sublecsation of your vertebra and can be fixed with some visits to the chiropractor.

x-rays are open for interpretation, so don't think that just because the doc told you one thing, its a fact. Hope this helps.

Thanks. I don't understand how I can have a deteriorating disc already in life either. I've been to a chiro a few times, but the pain would still come back if I ever tried heavy squats or heavy leg press. So, I don't know. I will go get a second opinion though. Thanks for the advice.

 

[shootfighter]

sure thing. also keep in mind that sometimes it may take a few months of visits to fix the problem. you might also find Chiropractors that want to see you 3 times a week. you might want to do this at first but it is not needed for the rest of your life.

Ofcouse, form is important too, but im sure you already know that. I bet youre moving a lot of weight and that means that a small mistake in form could have a big impact for you. keep that in mind too.

 

[loganb_football]

If the second opinion is confirmed I would suggest isometric holds in low position of split squat, squat, romanian dead lift etc. The most important keys to muscle growth are tension and time under tension not the range of motion. Put yourself in the weakest position which would be where the muscles are at a lengthened state (say parallel or slightly below parallel in a squat) and then hold... Force production will be higher at muscle extension as is, and when in the lowest position concentrate on contracting glutes and hamstrings hard... Work on using the correct form in the low position too. I can tell you from experience that if enough TUT is used then your legs will grow.

You're in a sore spot right now this is one conceivable option for you. Technically it is high volume (speaking in relation to time not reps). Your legs may shrink a bit the first week or so but they will bounce back.

Just a suggestion.

 

[pt923]

If the second opinion is confirmed I would suggest isometric holds in low position of split squat, squat, romanian dead lift etc. The most important keys to muscle growth are tension and time under tension not the range of motion. Put yourself in the weakest position which would be where the muscles are at a lengthened state (say parallel or slightly below parallel in a squat) and then hold... Force production will be higher at muscle extension as is, and when in the lowest position concentrate on contracting glutes and hamstrings hard... Work on using the correct form in the low position too. I can tell you from experience that if enough TUT is used then your legs will grow.

You're in a sore spot right now this is one conceivable option for you. Technically it is high volume (speaking in relation to time not reps). Your legs may shrink a bit the first week or so but they will bounce back.

Just a suggestion.

Thank you. I will definatly try this technique. I really do appriciate all of the coments and opinions. Keep them coming because I can never have too many options. I am also in a tight spot with shrugs and over-head shoulder presses with db or bb; so, if there are any suggestions in that area as well I would like to here them as well. Thanks again guys for all your help.

 

[Tom]

shoulders

Thank you. I will definatly try this technique. I really do appriciate all of the coments and opinions. Keep them coming because I can never have too many options. I am also in a tight spot with shrugs and over-head shoulder presses with db or bb; so, if there are any suggestions in that area as well I would like to here them as well. Thanks again guys for all your help.

do dumbell shrugs in a seated position and forget presses, they are over-rated. do side laterals one side at a time. hold on to a rail or heavy piece of gym equipment with one hand and do laterals withe the other then switch it around. you can handle some fairly heavy dumbells with fairly strict form doing this.

 

[loganb_football]

do dumbell shrugs in a seated position and forget presses, they are over-rated. do side laterals one side at a time. hold on to a rail or heavy piece of gym equipment with one hand and do laterals withe the other then switch it around. you can handle some fairly heavy dumbells with fairly strict form doing this.

Would you agree that sitting on a hard surface would be worse for his back? What about standing at which point the knees can be like shock absorbers?

 

[full_belly]

Would you agree that sitting on a hard surface would be worse for his back? What about standing at which point the knees can be like shock absorbers?

agreed, the legs are there to act as shock absorbers, not the sacrum as in a seated position.. plus stasnding will neccessiate lighter weights till the trunk is more stable ie "core"

 

[Tom]

good point

Would you agree that sitting on a hard surface would be worse for his back? What about standing at which point the knees can be like shock absorbers?

you're right. there might be more compression in the seated position and with the added weight of the dumbells not a good idea. maybe for traps standing upright rows from a low cable for high reps could be an option.

 

[pt923]

Thanks guys. I hope this thread can continue to grow, because I am sure that there are more people out there with back problems. Before I got this news about my back I had hurt it a few times, but got to go to cabo san lucas for my honeymoon. I thought that would give my back time to heal up; so, when we were flying back I really got in my mind that I was gonna train super hard when I got home for my next contest and get the motivation to try to go pro. I started training the next day I got back home and felt real good. But then leg day came around and I tweeked my back again and went and got the x-rays. And I can remember thinking, "there's no way I can go as far as I want to go in bodybuilding with a bad back, but now I've got the confedence back that I can still do whatever it takes; I just have to take another road to get there. I want others with back problems or any problems to know that it is still possible to persevere and reach their goals. Dreams may change, but you still reach for them.

 

[B~RAD]

YOGA- seriously. ever since my hot neighbor got me into it, no back pain. dont have to go to the chiro anymore. go buy some dvds and do it every day.

 

[smootheavy]

Speaking from experience, if you can, try to get some Active Release Therapy (A.R.T.) along with Chiro adjustments.

I have a partially herniated disk that I didnt even realize was the issue. I have been to 4 sessions of ART (this guy is an ART specialist, chiro and PT) and have seen a dramatic increase in my functionality with a decrease in symptoms.

What this does is mobilize the joint in question, free the nerve impingement and allow the body to heal itself. He has had other patients that were considered (unsaveable) by medical doctors, who he had treated that were able to return to their respective sports and compete at a high level.

In the meantime: Try DB exercises for lower body...Lunges (side, back, walking, alternating) and High bench step-ups.

 

[Lumen]

I was having some sevier lower back pain when doing squats and leg press. My Dr. took some x-rays and let me know I have a deteriorating disc and bone spurs up my last 4 vertebrae. He said there's really nothing I can do because I am only 24 years old. I love to compete, and I am worried about my leg growth without being able to do squats or heavy leg press. I also can't do deadlifts, heavy shrugs, or heavy shoulder press. Right now for my legs i do a lot of 1 leg exercises (1 leg presses, 1 leg squats, lunges) so that I don't put too much weight on myself. My stats are: 24 years old, 5' 11", 230lbs off season, 205 for competitions. Before I was told this news I was squating 480 lbs and dead lifting 565 lbs. If anyone has any info or has experienced this please let me know, or if anyone can think of some good exercises I can do to get some size on please post them.

I understand were you are at with the pain and discontent with your injury.
At 20 (I'm 31 now) I had a blowen disc and was barly able to walk, and when I did I was bent over because I could not get upright. Now with that said I had surgey preformed. Still from time to time have back issues (2-3 times a year) that kept me humbled. Injuries came be over come you have to remember that you do have back problems. I still have that desire to dead lift and squat heavy when I know I can just not sure of the results. Yoga and or streching does wonders. Always get another opinon from a good doc. By the way I was about 26 before I wised up figured out I did not what to end up with another surgey. Take Care