What would you do differently?

[NEMSZ]

Looking to get some constructive advice on my approach here to some newly desired bodybuilding goals, now this is not a “hardcore bodybuilding” goal or post, so please don’t eat me if that’s what you want to see


Past/Current Training:

For the past couple years, didn’t really do much weight lifting at all, some CrossFit BS about 3-4 years ago, then got heavily back into BJJ/Striking about 2+ years ago and only strictly did that with some conditioning work and some weight lifting days when my training partners wanted to get a lift in but nothing bodybuilding related by any means.. After a pretty bad shoulder injury during an intense training camp (tore labrum and cartilage in my right shoulder causing blood/liquid filled cysts per MRI that I needed to have aspirated) I took a break from the BJJ/Striking to heal up and got back into lifting weights after PT for my shoulder and found a new enjoyment with it..

My current split is a PPL but 2 on 1 off;

Day 1: Legs
Day 2: Chest/Tris/Shoulders
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Back/Bis
Day 5: Legs
Day 6:Off
Day 7: Chest/Tris/Shoulders
Day 8: Back/Bis


And so on..

An example of my routine:

Back:

Lat Pull Downs: 1x20 (try and get a deep stretch and flex, get a good pump/warm up), 1x15, 1x12, 1x8,5,3 (rest pause reaching muscular failure)

Barbell or Cable Rows: 1x15, 1x12, 1x8,5,3 (rest pause reaching muscular failure)

High Row Machine: 1x15, 1x12, 1x8,5,3 (rest pause reaching muscular failure)

Pull Over Machine: 3x15 pyramiding up in weight, trying to hit failure in the last set

Biceps:

Preacher Curls: 4x12-15 pyramiding weight trying to reach failure on last set

Seated Alternating Dumbell Curls: 4x12-15

Reverse Curls: 2x failure

Cardio/Off Days:

Off days I will usually do some Tabatas on the assault bike, nothing too crazy maybe 2-3 rounds of 8 Tabatas, I’ll do Shrugs/Forearms/Neck workouts on these days as well, nothing too taxing but I have trouble staying still and doing nothing for a day..

Training Days I’ll usually do some LISS cardio or just go on an extra long walk listening to a podcast, with work and my walks I’ll easily get in 15-18k steps in..

BJJ/Striking:

Taking a break from this for now, my best friend (and coach) is on a 2 month trip in Thailand training and helping with some training camps at Tiger Muay Thai and Bangtao so I won’t be doing anything with the above until he gets back, but I plan to dial it back from what I was doing before; will probably resume with 3-4 training sessions per week of either, or a mix of both, but pursuing it any more seriously than that just isn’t in the cards for me, I’m 10+ years older than most of the up and comers and I thought I could keep up but the trade offs just aren’t worth it at this point..

Diet:

Admittedly, I don’t measure or track anything other than protein, I try to get in minimum 200-250g protein per day, that’s it.. I don’t measure anything else, but most of my food sources on a daily basis are;

Whey Protein
Eggs
Grass Fed Beef/Steaks
Chicken
Jasmine Rice
Potatoes
Triple Zero Greek Protein Yogurt
Fruits (mangoes, bananas, Berries)
Honey
Veggies

AAS/Gear - Past/Present:

I care deeply about my health and I’m not wanting to push things too hard

That being said for the past 10+ years I’ve been on TRT, 140mg per week, I’ve done some sporadic moments with 200mg per week where I’ve gotten blood work and I’ve done HGH no higher than 3iu per day to help with my recovery when I was doing BJJ etc but I stopped that like 5-6 months ago..

Currently I’m doing 50mg per day Test E, so 350mg per week, nothing else.. I posted in another thread about 6-8 weeks ago or something that I had started 525mg Test from a supposed reputable sponsor about 6-8 weeks before that and bloodwork confirmed that was BS because my levels on 200mg per week from the pharmacy were 1390 and on 525mg from said sponsor I was at 1450 , so I wasted like 8 weeks still being on TRT basically, waited to get new stuff and since started the new Test at 350mg per week I do feel the difference (will be getting bloods to confirm levels on Wednesday) sand I want to increment AAS slowly to get the most out of each incremental dose.. So far it’s been 6-7 weeks of the 350mg Test..

Planning on adding HGH at 3iu per day after blood work and later on, maybe in a few months I’ll add in some Primo..

Goal: My goal is to be 200lbs 9-10% bodyfat, I know it’s not an extreme bodybuilding goal, but it’s where I want to be for my ideal physique goal (giving myself something to work for) while still enjoying my training/abilities in BJJ/Striking..

Side Notes:

Im currently hovering around 192lbs @ 5’9 and I’d say realistically probably 13-14% bodyfat, I know the ideal thing to do as I’ve seen Luki and other guys post about it is to get extremely lean then build off of that rebound and do a couple of cycles of that until you get to your desired goals (I may be oversimplifying the explanation) but I felt I had no real “muscular base” from not weight training for so many years and feared if I just dieted down straight away to a super lean bodyfat that I’d just be a 160-165lb guy with shredded abs but absolutely nothing else (no shoulders, arms, chest etc).. So right now and for the past few weeks since Ive started this I’ve just been eating, training like the above and taking incremental amounts of AAS to see what my body does, trying to at least build some kind of muscular base over the next 6 months or so, not trying to gain too much bodyfat and ideally if I can recomp, then even better, then do a hard diet starting around April, then evaluate where I am from there..

I don’t expect to put on an insane amount of muscle in 6 months but if I can at least make the switch of being a potential 160-165lb guy with no base at a lean bodyfat to a 170lb guy with a muscular base at a lean bodyfat then that’s something, and I know I probably won’t build those extra 25-30lbs of lean tissue right away but I’m hoping I can get it done realistically in 12-18 months (I may be way off on this) and hoping I don’t need an insane amount of AAS to accomplish that, as I don’t see it as the type of physique that requires anything extreme in that regard..

Pics:

Attached are pictures I’ve posted in the past but I don’t post here much anymore and it’s pretty much my same starting point considering nothing changed from those pictures to the start of this new journey, I was eating and training the same for progression on the mats, not for bodybuilding so needless to say my look didn’t change much..

Was about 182-185lbs in the pics..

Any constructive criticism is appreciated..

 

[bbxtreme]

I have to say that’s a very detailed post, well done. You’re on the right track and covered it all IMO.

My only critique is the diet- it’s the most critical part if you want to achieve your goal. Find your baseline and set a plan you follow daily. It’s the only way you’re going to look how you want year round along with daily steps and cardio.

I know you don’t want to cut, but look at it more as a recomp instead of a cut. If you can keep dosages up, nail your diet and “slowly” cut down then you can recomp and get far better results. Once you get down to a very low body fat then you will be primed to “slowly” rebound out of it.

IMO you’ll get the lean tissue much quicker than if you try and push up right now and then diet back down. You’ll also stay healthier and keep inflammation lower.

Lastly, I’d add injectable carnitine 400-600mg daily pre workout or cardio. It will make the process much quicker.

 

[Shelby]

25-30 pounds of lean mass is something that will likely take at the very least a handful of years (3-5), probably longer depending on your personal response (plus aversion to higher doses, and lack of tracking diet).
You might get lucky but the odds don't seem in your favor. (and 25-30 pounds of muscle IS a hardcore bodybuilding goal, even if it's not a hardcore bodybuilding look that you're aiming to achieve).
So my input would be to adjust your expectations and/or approach, especially diet. Why not hire Luki? Even just for a few months would be very helpful in getting on the right track.

 

[slesh]

25-30 pounds of lean mass is something that will likely take at the very least a handful of years (3-5), probably longer depending on your personal response (plus aversion to higher doses, and lack of tracking diet).
You might get lucky but the odds don't seem in your favor. (and 25-30 pounds of muscle IS a hardcore bodybuilding goal, even if it's not a hardcore bodybuilding look that you're aiming to achieve).
So my input would be to adjust your expectations and/or approach, especially diet. Why not hire Luki? Even just for a few months would be very helpful in getting on the right track.

Ooooofff absolutely. I don’t think most people realize how hard it is to build that much true lean tissue. So much of a blast/growth phase is glycogen and nitrogen retention. If I put on 20 total pounds I’m happy if I obtained 5 pounds of lean tissue when all is said and done.

 

[NEMSZ]

I have to say that’s a very detailed post, well done. You’re on the right track and covered it all IMO.

My only critique is the diet- it’s the most critical part if you want to achieve your goal. Find your baseline and set a plan you follow daily. It’s the only way you’re going to look how you want year round along with daily steps and cardio.

I know you don’t want to cut, but look at it more as a recomp instead of a cut. If you can keep dosages up, nail your diet and “slowly” cut down then you can recomp and get far better results. Once you get down to a very low body fat then you will be primed to “slowly” rebound out of it.

IMO you’ll get the lean tissue much quicker than if you try and push up right now and then diet back down. You’ll also stay healthier and keep inflammation lower.

Lastly, I’d add injectable carnitine 400-600mg daily pre workout or cardio. It will make the process much quicker.

Thank you for your input; yea I know diet is super important, and I know eventually for whatever specific goal I want to achieve in a certain phase I’ll have to track it, whether it’s gaining or cutting or even a recomp as you suggested..

I just meant that RIGHT NOW, I’m not tracking anything other than protein as I wasn’t really sure I was going in the right direction with this, my thought process was that I eat pretty clean Whole Foods as it is, a pretty standard “high” protein, moderate carbs (especially for bodybuilding standards) and lower fat diet and I’m fairly active outside the gym, without counting my “extra” steps I easily get in 10-12k steps a day, adding the extras I’m at 15-18k steps..

I’ve tracked things before and I’m usually around 250g protein/500ish carbs and around 50g fats, puts me around 3300-3500 calories depending on the days and what I’m eating, sometimes I admittedly skip a meal or something because I’m so busy with work/business but since I’ve started this I’ve been pretty adamant about not letting that happen, I try to eat every 3 hours so I can get in a good 5 meals a day, trying to eat more meals my digestion I feel takes a hit and less frequent bigger meals I don’t enjoy..

I figured the training and added AAS will account for something and at least point to a direction, I’ve gained some weight, I know I wasn’t the leanest but abs have slightly blurred a bit..

For this recomp suggestion would you saying something along the lines of Carb Cycling??

Have some high, medium and lower days??

 

[bbxtreme]

Thank you for your input; yea I know diet is super important, and I know eventually for whatever specific goal I want to achieve in a certain phase I’ll have to track it, whether it’s gaining or cutting or even a recomp as you suggested..

I just meant that RIGHT NOW, I’m not tracking anything other than protein as I wasn’t really sure I was going in the right direction with this, my thought process was that I eat pretty clean Whole Foods as it is, a pretty standard “high” protein, moderate carbs (especially for bodybuilding standards) and lower fat diet and I’m fairly active outside the gym, without counting my “extra” steps I easily get in 10-12k steps a day, adding the extras I’m at 15-18k steps..

I’ve tracked things before and I’m usually around 250g protein/500ish carbs and around 50g fats, puts me around 3300-3500 calories depending on the days and what I’m eating, sometimes I admittedly skip a meal or something because I’m so busy with work/business but since I’ve started this I’ve been pretty adamant about not letting that happen, I try to eat every 3 hours so I can get in a good 5 meals a day, trying to eat more meals my digestion I feel takes a hit and less frequent bigger meals I don’t enjoy..

I figured the training and added AAS will account for something and at least point to a direction, I’ve gained some weight, I know I wasn’t the leanest but abs have slightly blurred a bit..

For this recomp suggestion would you saying something along the lines of Carb Cycling??

Have some high, medium and lower days??

Yes, I would do carb cycling for sure. Establish baseline days (training days) and low (off days). You will want to sit below your maintenance calories both days slightly with the off days being much lower and utilizing fat over carbs.

Once you have a good drop in bodyweight then implement a high or refeed day- guys use way too many of these IMO. Go by the scale and mirror, not planned ones.

I agree with others on the large amount of muscle gain as it will take time, but I think a lot of guys confuse what 10lb of true muscle can look like on a physique. You may not need that much to get your desired goal.

But I would start tracking sooner rather than later. Looking back what I thought was a “strict” diet in my earlier years is laughable now compared to where I am at. The sooner you nail that, the sooner you get results. Things compound with diet- whether it’s missed meals or getting it right. It’s the biggest piece of the whole equation.

 

[NEMSZ]

25-30 pounds of lean mass is something that will likely take at the very least a handful of years (3-5), probably longer depending on your personal response (plus aversion to higher doses, and lack of tracking diet).
You might get lucky but the odds don't seem in your favor. (and 25-30 pounds of muscle IS a hardcore bodybuilding goal, even if it's not a hardcore bodybuilding look that you're aiming to achieve).
So my input would be to adjust your expectations and/or approach, especially diet. Why not hire Luki? Even just for a few months would be very helpful in getting on the right track.

Thank you for your input!

Yea I may be overshooting with my expectations, I posted above to BBXtreme what I meant about the diet tracking at this moment in the process, but not opposed to having to do so more accurately..

My thought process was I’ve seen some guys make some pretty impressive gains, granted some were pushing heavy doses and making BBing their sole purpose, which I am not, but I figured having not trained like a bodybuilder in over a decade (my early 20’s was the last time I was into it) and having not been on anything over TRT in that long as well that it would make up for something upping the dosages and training hard and eating like a bodybuilder, though for sure, the diet is probably where I think I need the most help to actually point me in a specific direction..

You really think it would take 3-5 years? Jesus, was I really that off?

I’m not opposed to taking a decent dosage of AAS and tracking the food at all, just need some guidance but I’m definitely not trying to take grams upon grams of gear. I’m not saying I’ll stay at 300mg of Test and expect to gain 30lbs, but would you say, given if diet and training are followed correctly that a person would need more than 1g of combined gear and some GH to attain a physique like that??

As for hiring Luki, I would in the future, just seems like he’s more catered to actual bodybuilding competitors and more serious clients, I wouldn’t want to take up a space just being kind of a “lifestyle” client.. I’d have to speak with him I guess..

Any further guidance with the diet and training are greatly appreciated!

 

[NEMSZ]

Ooooofff absolutely. I don’t think most people realize how hard it is to build that much true lean tissue. So much of a blast/growth phase is glycogen and nitrogen retention. If I put on 20 total pounds I’m happy if I obtained 5 pounds of lean tissue when all is said and done.

Dude, you’re actually one of the guys I think about when it comes to a completely transformed physique in a matter of like 18-24 months

Weren’t you like 185lbs and like 6% 2 years ago doing TRT and like 15iu Black Tops then decided fuck it, you’re going to push it and recently you were like 230lbs on a Dexa Scan and 6-7%??

I know you’re probably more liberal on the dosages than I’m willing to be bro you changed into a completely different human in that time frame

 

[NEMSZ]

Yes, I would do carb cycling for sure. Establish baseline days (training days) and low (off days). You will want to sit below your maintenance calories both days slightly with the off days being much lower and utilizing fat over carbs.

Once you have a good drop in bodyweight then implement a high or refeed day- guys use way too many of these IMO. Go by the scale and mirror, not planned ones.

I agree with others on the large amount of muscle gain as it will take time, but I think a lot of guys confuse what 10lb of true muscle can look like on a physique. You may not need that much to get your desired goal.

But I would start tracking sooner rather than later. Looking back what I thought was a “strict” diet in my earlier years is laughable now compared to where I am at. The sooner you nail that, the sooner you get results. Things compound with diet- whether it’s missed meals or getting it right. It’s the biggest piece of the whole equation.

Thank you!

So for example using the macros I laid out that I hover around

P - 250g
C - 500g
F - 50g

Would you say to do something like on training days;

P - 250g
C - 300g (mostly pre and immediately post workout?)
F - 50g

Off days;

P - 250g
C - 150g
F - 50g

Refeed when needed something like;

P - 180g
C - 600g-700g
F - 30g

???

 

[slesh]

Dude, you’re actually one of the guys I think about when it comes to a completely transformed physique in a matter of like 18-24 months

Weren’t you like 185lbs and like 6% 2 years ago doing TRT and like 15iu Black Tops then decided fuck it, you’re going to push it and recently you were like 230lbs on a Dexa Scan and 6-7%??

I know you’re probably more liberal on the dosages than I’m willing to be bro you changed into a completely different human in that time frame

Haha I appreciate that but some of your numbers are a little skewed. When I got crazy lean a few years ago I was 195 and 5% on the In Body. Today I am 220 maintenance - not sure what my BF is. Mid summer I did hit 240 and 12% on the In Body. But that goes to my overall point - I started with a maintenance weight of 215 - got to 240 - and once I dropped down to TRT and a maintenance diet I dropped down to 220.

 

[Reno911]

Thank you for your input!

Yea I may be overshooting with my expectations, I posted above to BBXtreme what I meant about the diet tracking at this moment in the process, but not opposed to having to do so more accurately..

My thought process was I’ve seen some guys make some pretty impressive gains, granted some were pushing heavy doses and making BBing their sole purpose, which I am not, but I figured having not trained like a bodybuilder in over a decade (my early 20’s was the last time I was into it) and having not been on anything over TRT in that long as well that it would make up for something upping the dosages and training hard and eating like a bodybuilder, though for sure, the diet is probably where I think I need the most help to actually point me in a specific direction..

You really think it would take 3-5 years? Jesus, was I really that off?

I’m not opposed to taking a decent dosage of AAS and tracking the food at all, just need some guidance but I’m definitely not trying to take grams upon grams of gear. I’m not saying I’ll stay at 300mg of Test and expect to gain 30lbs, but would you say, given if diet and training are followed correctly that a person would need more than 1g of combined gear and some GH to attain a physique like that??

As for hiring Luki, I would in the future, just seems like he’s more catered to actual bodybuilding competitors and more serious clients, I wouldn’t want to take up a space just being kind of a “lifestyle” client.. I’d have to speak with him I guess..

Any further guidance with the diet and training are greatly appreciated!

In bold from above- think of 25-35lbs of fillet. That's a shitload of tissue from scratch.

 

[bbxtreme]

Thank you!

So for example using the macros I laid out that I hover around

P - 250g
C - 500g
F - 50g

Would you say to do something like on training days;

P - 250g
C - 300g (mostly pre and immediately post workout?)
F - 50g

Off days;

P - 250g
C - 150g
F - 50g

Refeed when needed something like;

P - 180g
C - 600g-700g
F - 30g

???

Hire a coach and work with them to nail your diet. Coaching isn’t my thing.

 

[thethinker48]

Honestly man, building 25+ lbs of muscle tissue, then holding onto it while doing hard striking and grappling training is going to be very hard, even with decent gear intake. If that is not your homeostasis, your body won't like carrying it while you give it every reasons to drop it doing fight training. This is just my opinion. It's more doable living a proper bodybuilding lifestyle.

I think you would look great with 10 lbs less bf, and 5-10 lbs more muscle. And probably more achievable too.

 

[qbkilla]

Thank you for your input!

Yea I may be overshooting with my expectations, I posted above to BBXtreme what I meant about the diet tracking at this moment in the process, but not opposed to having to do so more accurately..

My thought process was I’ve seen some guys make some pretty impressive gains, granted some were pushing heavy doses and making BBing their sole purpose, which I am not, but I figured having not trained like a bodybuilder in over a decade (my early 20’s was the last time I was into it) and having not been on anything over TRT in that long as well that it would make up for something upping the dosages and training hard and eating like a bodybuilder, though for sure, the diet is probably where I think I need the most help to actually point me in a specific direction..

You really think it would take 3-5 years? Jesus, was I really that off?

I’m not opposed to taking a decent dosage of AAS and tracking the food at all, just need some guidance but I’m definitely not trying to take grams upon grams of gear. I’m not saying I’ll stay at 300mg of Test and expect to gain 30lbs, but would you say, given if diet and training are followed correctly that a person would need more than 1g of combined gear and some GH to attain a physique like that??

As for hiring Luki, I would in the future, just seems like he’s more catered to actual bodybuilding competitors and more serious clients, I wouldn’t want to take up a space just being kind of a “lifestyle” client.. I’d have to speak with him I guess..

Any further guidance with the diet and training are greatly appreciated!

I feel like I've seen you post elsewhere that you typically do dc training? Did you stop that for other methods?

 

[NEMSZ]

Haha I appreciate that but some of your numbers are a little skewed. When I got crazy lean a few years ago I was 195 and 5% on the In Body. Today I am 220 maintenance - not sure what my BF is. Mid summer I did hit 240 and 12% on the In Body. But that goes to my overall point - I started with a maintenance weight of 215 - got to 240 - and once I dropped down to TRT and a maintenance diet I dropped down to 220.

Might have been off a little bit but I didn’t remember 100%, all I know is that you’ve made an extremely impressive transformation.. Looking forward to what you keep doing

 

[NEMSZ]

Honestly man, building 25+ lbs of muscle tissue, then holding onto it while doing hard striking and grappling training is going to be very hard, even with decent gear intake. If that is not your homeostasis, your body won't like carrying it while you give it every reasons to drop it doing fight training. This is just my opinion. It's more doable living a proper bodybuilding lifestyle.

I think you would look great with 10 lbs less bf, and 5-10 lbs more muscle. And probably more achievable too.

It’s just the training I enjoy most, I love grappling/striking, and although I won’t be pursuing it professionally, it’s something I don’t think I’ll stop doing..

Looking at it that way, I can see where it would be very difficult..

But here’s what I compare it to (and I’m by no means at any level like these guys I’m about to mention), look at guys like Gordon Ryan, Nicky Rod, Owen Livesey, Tyrone Spong, Rousimar Palhares, Andre Galvao and many more, granted, a few of these guys are taller than me, some by a good bit, but some of these guys are my height or shorter and they all started 40-60lbs+ lighter than where they ended up jacked as fuck and they train waaaaayyyyy more than I do..

But ultimately you’re right, probably some of those guys are meant to genetically have a big muscular frame while doing what they do, and who know what they or the smaller guys did to achieve what they did, maintain it etc, I would assume a “whatever it takes” mentality since they’re competing professionally at the highest levels of their respected sports..

This guy right here certainly isn’t willing to do whatever it takes if it means pushing certain boundaries..

If I like the way I look/perform somewhere along the way to my goal then awesome, I made it I just had those stats in my head going by other people with similar heights/weights and looks that I like..

 

[NEMSZ]

I feel like I've seen you post elsewhere that you typically do dc training? Did you stop that for other methods?

I believe you’re referring to a post I’ve made about past training, when I gave DC a serious go was around late 2017-beginning 2018 for about 6 months if I recall, but fell off due to work/business and life..

With that period, CrossFit I did for 9 months in 2021 and then BJJ/Striking, I’d say in the past 10 years I don’t have more than 16-18 months of lifting weights in all that time if I were to combine it all..

For the past 6 months since recovering from my shoulder injury, the first 3 months was trying to find a routine I liked so that I can stick to it and be consistent, the one I posted above is enjoyable to me, I enjoy lifting on the heavier side with less volume, a bit more frequency than a bro split, and going to failure (failure to me is when I can’t complete another clean rep), I make a game in my head with the weight and reps always trying to get one more rep or go up even 5lbs on a lift etc..

 

[carbs]

What would I do differently?

All the bitcoin I purchased to buy gear over the last 10 years I would of kept instead.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

what would I do differently? militantly track my diet...

 

[IceCream]

i would time travel to 2005 to my teen self in school an choose no t to try and go on dirty bulk and stay away front lifting - because i ruin my good look with add new permanent fat cells also - just a stupid decision that make me go from skinny but good look confident boy to depress fat social awkward