What would you do differently?

[NEMSZ]

If you dont want to push the drugs, then you need to be absolutely 100% on diet, training, sleep, recovery and stress.

Unless you're some genetic freak? But lets be realistic, you'd already know that now.

You dont need high drugs if your goal is to just look good for the beach. Squeezing more out of less is nailing the above consistently for years and progressing food and lifts.

I’m definitely not a genetic freak

But idk about the need for excessive gear use for my goal;

I don’t understand how I’ve seen everyone who’s worth their salt on here say “you can be XYZ size and shape on 500-750mg Test, 4-6iu GH and some Var, Primo or EQ etc” and that “XYZ” size and shape is light years bigger and better shape than what I’m proposing. Yet it seems like the impression I’m getting is for a 190lb guy who’s only been on TRT for 10 years and hasn’t done a bodybuilding workout routine for about the same amount of time is going to need grams of gear and to be dialed in like an IFBB pro to gain 20lbs of muscle..

2 completely contradicting statements I’ve come to see on this board..

I’d think being so “fresh” for lack of a bette word would produce those newb gains everyone wishes they still had, usually you hear it’s the guys who are already SHW trying to put on 5lbs of stage weight that have such a hard time..

Either way, I’m going to take the advice and put in the work, maybe I surprise myself and everyone, or maybe it takes me a lot longer than I think..

Side Note: I think everyone is so adamant about the gear dosages because I’d bet my last $1000 that everyone thinks they’re taking a lot more than they actually are for where they are… We haven’t had testing in years, the sponsors know it and I’d bet are taking full advantage of it (at least some of them)…

Sure, we’re all different and will respond different to a degree, but I’d love to see anyone proving with blood work and pharma grade TRT that 200mg puts them at 600-700ng/dl… I’d bet that puts 99.9% of us above 1200 at peak…

I see guys on here posting they’re taking 1g-1.5g+ of Test and they’re in the 2,500-3,000 range..

I’m aware it’s not a linear increase in levels as the dose increases (ex: 200mg is 1200ng so 400mg should be 2400ng)… But I’ve seen other’s and have my own blood work to show that there’s no way anyone is adding 800mg+ of Test to their TRT and only pulling 1000ng more on their bloods.. That’s ridiculous..

I’d bet most guys are taking 50-70% of what they actually think they’re taking..

 

[3BILLS]

No, I never started “dieting” was just eating clean in a slight surplus to build some muscle and create a base before really dieting down hard; received advice to carb cycle and attempt to recomp and see where I’m at to see if I push up or push to get really lean then up..

I'm surprised you weren't talked into doing a hard diet first (while tracking)

Then push to put some size on (while staying lean)

 

[3BILLS]

.

 

[NEMSZ]

I'm surprised you weren't talked into doing a hard diet first (while tracking)

Then push to put some size on (while staying lean)

I think it’s because since I haven’t lifted with a bodybuilding routine/diet for over a decade, my main workouts have been BJJ and Strinking, some strength/conditioning etc, so I haven’t really built any muscular base..

I didn’t want to diet down hard and be a flat 160lbs with abs, no shoulders or arms or back etc.. Figured I’d build a bit of a base before dieting down hard then pushing up..

 

[3BILLS]

I think it’s because since I haven’t lifted with a bodybuilding routine/diet for over a decade, my main workouts have been BJJ and Strinking, some strength/conditioning etc, so I haven’t really built any muscular base..

I didn’t want to diet down hard and be a flat 160lbs with abs, no shoulders or arms or back etc.. Figured I’d build a bit of a base before dieting down hard then pushing up..

I get that but I think you would look better then you think. Don't let the number scare you. You will be extremely motivated once your lean as well to gain muscle. Every pound will be noticeable

 

[pimpman]

25-30 pounds of lean mass is something that will likely take at the very least a handful of years (3-5), probably longer depending on your personal response (plus aversion to higher doses, and lack of tracking diet).
You might get lucky but the odds don't seem in your favor. (and 25-30 pounds of muscle IS a hardcore bodybuilding goal, even if it's not a hardcore bodybuilding look that you're aiming to achieve).
So my input would be to adjust your expectations and/or approach, especially diet. Why not hire Luki? Even just for a few months would be very helpful in getting on the right track.

I was thinking the same thing to get that amount will take quite a few years and you still may not get it if your fram won’t be able to hold it

By any chance are you still a coach? I had you prep me for a show many years ago when I was in my competing days

 

[Shelby]

By any chance are you still a coach? I had you prep me for a show many years ago when I was in my competing days

Yes

 

[Aikman56]

2 completely contradicting statements I’ve come to see on this board..

Unless the same board member is making both statements about the same person, in the same circumstances, I really don't think you can call it "contradictory". The Board isn't a gestalt.

But to your other points...for your goals, what you're doing seems sufficient.

 

[pimpman]

Yes

Oh kool man