DNP VS A HARD DIET

New_Mass · Nov 19, 2009

Dieting hard and dnp both burn fat,
the average joe Diets Hard to get his body fat percentages down but in most cases (probably all the time) at the expense of "losing muscle" while gaining the hard shredded look while the Advanced does the same but without giving the appearance of having lost any muscle, whats separating the two?

the question is how does the person with alot more muscle gain this hard shredded look like the average joe without losing his or her muscle?

Gunsmith · Nov 19, 2009

New_Mass said:
the question is how does the person with alot more muscle gain this hard shredded look like the average joe without losing his or her muscle?

Proper nutrition and supplimintation

theirs no magic pill , no seceret sauce , just hard work and suffering through the strict diet and cardio

New_Mass · Nov 19, 2009

Gunsmith said:
Proper nutrition and supplimintation

theirs no magic pill , no seceret sauce , just hard work and suffering through the strict diet and cardio

so you believe in the hard diet only, this way your bound to sacrafice some hard earned muscle though, whats your thoughts on the dnp route since it is in the article section and is being used?

Ruhlfreak55 · Nov 19, 2009

If you're on while you cut the muscle loss will be minimal...

New_Mass · Nov 19, 2009

there are 2 looks that I've seen and both are on
1 who diets his ass off and obtains the shredded look but muscles always look average, and one who has more muscle and shreds it without having that diet hard look to it, I guess the people who would understand this are sleeping right now getting ready for the show, if you understand chime in

Gunsmith · Nov 19, 2009

DNP is very effectice at dropping bf% , but to get the stage ready look that competitors have i think that proper dieting is the best way

VNV · Nov 20, 2009

I worked as a body fat dunk tank test operator for a number of years, testing thousands of people. The best test subjects were repeat clients so I could see their progress.

Let me tell you this: it's IMPOSSIBLE not to lose muscle while losing body fat unless you're taking gear. No if-ands-or-buts. Anyone that tells you otherwise is full of shit, plain and simple. The only way you're going to lean out without losing muscle is gear.

Like I said, I tested THOUSANDS of people as they lost or gained fat and muscle. I've tested fatties, athletes, Olympia competitors, etc.

We broke down tests into lbs of lean body mass and lbs of fat. The average person loses about 1 lb of muscle for every 3 to 4 lbs of fat. Younger people more like 4, older people more like 3.

parrajm · Nov 20, 2009

Read this and use your brain fellas (and ladies)

2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP), C6H4N2O5, is a cellular metabolic poison. It uncouples oxidative phosphorylation by carrying protons across the mitochondrial membrane, leading to a rapid consumption of energy without generation of ATP.

Those are the first two sentences explainin DNP on wikipedia.

To simplify further:

1.) No ATP, no cellular fuel for muscle tissue.
2.) No cellular fuel, no trabajo (Work).

Now I am by no means an expert so someone chime in here if I'm wrong but if you can't stimulate muscle tissue to the extent you would have to to maintain your mass, that muscle tissue becomes more of a target for cellular fuel than before (you are never burning just fat). Therefore the same process that makes DNP fantastic for losing fat also makes your muscle more of a target than simply dieting because by simple caloric restriction, you don't have a substance in your body also inhibiting the energy output (ability to lift) of your muscles. By this logic, speculative as it may be, the use of DNP would diminish lean mass more than a restrictive diet.

Besides, just look at the uses for the stuff: Commercial DNP is primarily used for scientific research and in manufacturing. It has been used at times to make dyes, other organic chemicals, and wood preservatives. It has also been used to make photographic developer, explosives, and pesticides.

I'd hate to say it, but get your asses on a stair master and try that first. I wouldn't touch DNP unless i was grossly obese and was too fat to do cardio simply because there is no way a mitochondrial poison is going to leave us better off than we were. Who knows, maybe you'll be one of those freaks whose legs actually grow from cardio? Sorry if any of this is a bit brash fellas, someone's goddamn cat in my neighborhood is in heat or something and the SOB decided to howl by my window all night long. one love

Caladin · Nov 21, 2009

VNV said:
I worked as a body fat dunk tank test operator for a number of years, testing thousands of people. The best test subjects were repeat clients so I could see their progress.

Let me tell you this: it's IMPOSSIBLE not to lose muscle while losing body fat unless you're taking gear. No if-ands-or-buts. Anyone that tells you otherwise is full of shit, plain and simple. The only way you're going to lean out without losing muscle is gear.

Like I said, I tested THOUSANDS of people as they lost or gained fat and muscle. I've tested fatties, athletes, Olympia competitors, etc.

We broke down tests into lbs of lean body mass and lbs of fat. The average person loses about 1 lb of muscle for every 3 to 4 lbs of fat. Younger people more like 4, older people more like 3.

thannk yo for that post... some pretty neat info

buselmo · Nov 21, 2009

DNP will not give you that "shredded" look with popping muscles... actually, it'll make you look like shit (i know 3 people who used it, me being one of them, and we all looked leaner AND crappier in the end... also, magnum hinted that someone used dnp to get lean really fast for nationals a year ago, and the dude just looked like he hadn't had a carb in 29 years with very flat and tired looking muscles)

anyway... If you aren't genetically gifted to have that 'popping' look, you need to do that dieting shit slowly and stop losing 40 lbs to get onstage and try to lose just 10 lbs or so by staying lean in the off season. if you have a lot of weight to lose, i'd say lose the weight, gain the muscle back, then diet slowly for the show to get that look.
ever seen someone starve themselves and diet like crazy to get shredded and looked like a corpse? what happens when he gets off the diet? he blows up with paper thin skin and 'popping' muscles.... if he gets that look for 2-3 weeks and gains 10-15 lbs of water (inside the muscle, so it counts as lean mass), then takes 12 weeks to get leaner, but not change in weight... what'll happen?

anyway, i don't know what the hell i'm talking about so don't take my word for it

Ehren · Nov 21, 2009

Beat me to it. It seems alot of guys plan for shorter diets, but if you take 20 weeks for example (as required by being too overweight, I'd guess), you can do it slower and correct things along the way, sparing some muscle. It just takes longer and therefore, sucks more.

Better to stay leaner...but this seems to hinder gains. So it's a tough call. Look at Shawn Ray for example. Always lean, but didn't seem to change much over time.

I'd love to know how can we grow AND get ripped without a 6 month diet...

ericraven2003 · Nov 21, 2009

New_Mass said:
Dieting hard and dnp both burn fat,
the average joe Diets Hard to get his body fat percentages down but in most cases (probably all the time) at the expense of "losing muscle" while gaining the hard shredded look while the Advanced does the same but without giving the appearance of having lost any muscle, whats separating the two?

the question is how does the person with alot more muscle gain this hard shredded look like the average joe without losing his or her muscle?

When I lost my 46lbs of lard, I dieted extremely hard and used DNP. The combination was nothing less than amazing.

Newman · Nov 21, 2009

parrajm said:
2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP), C6H4N2O5, is a cellular metabolic poison. It uncouples oxidative phosphorylation by carrying protons across the mitochondrial membrane, leading to a rapid consumption of energy without generation of ATP.

Those are the first two sentences explainin DNP on wikipedia.

To simplify further:

1.) No ATP, no cellular fuel for muscle tissue.
2.) No cellular fuel, no trabajo (Work).

Now I am by no means an expert so someone chime in here if I'm wrong but if you can't stimulate muscle tissue to the extent you would have to to maintain your mass, that muscle tissue becomes more of a target for cellular fuel than before (you are never burning just fat). Therefore the same process that makes DNP fantastic for losing fat also makes your muscle more of a target than simply dieting because by simple caloric restriction, you don't have a substance in your body also inhibiting the energy output (ability to lift) of your muscles. By this logic, speculative as it may be, the use of DNP would diminish lean mass more than a restrictive diet.

Besides, just look at the uses for the stuff: Commercial DNP is primarily used for scientific research and in manufacturing. It has been used at times to make dyes, other organic chemicals, and wood preservatives. It has also been used to make photographic developer, explosives, and pesticides.

I'd hate to say it, but get your asses on a stair master and try that first. I wouldn't touch DNP unless i was grossly obese and was too fat to do cardio simply because there is no way a mitochondrial poison is going to leave us better off than we were. Who knows, maybe you'll be one of those freaks whose legs actually grow from cardio? Sorry if any of this is a bit brash fellas, someone's goddamn cat in my neighborhood is in heat or something and the SOB decided to howl by my window all night long. one love

Interesting post bro.

I've read that DNP MAY be carcinogenic, but I haven't verified that through research.

The thing is, just because a substance is technically classed as a toxin, that doesn't necessarilly mean it's off limits to use. For example, for occassional use, OTC painkillers can be beneficial, yet they are classed as hepatoxins. My point being that just because a substance falls into a certain (negative) category, that doesn't mean the negative property is significant enough to preclude it from sane use by informed individuals.

Regarding your hypothesis about DNP blocking cellular nutrient uptake, I'm thinking that although you may be correct, the blocking effect is likely insignificant in comparisson to the fat burning quality effected in the typical dosages used 4 dieting. If it were significantly catabolic by blocking nutrient uptake, then it wouldn't be so popular, would it? Sure it could be coasting along on brolore, but I think if it were significantly catabolic, then we'd know that by now.

Also, just because a chemical is used for industrial non-food & non-pharma applications, that doesn't mean it's bad for us. Glycerol is used in making TNT, but it's great for increasing fluid retention & aiding muscle pumps, not to mention it is used topically in moisturizing skin creams & cosmetics.

Peace.

New_Mass · Nov 27, 2009

Newman said:
The thing is, just because a substance is technically classed as a toxin, that doesn't necessarilly mean it's off limits to use. For example, for occassional use, OTC painkillers can be beneficial, yet they are classed as hepatoxins. My point being that just because a substance falls into a certain (negative) category, that doesn't mean the negative property is significant enough to preclude it from sane use by informed individuals.

good point, whats your take on the fast metabolism that has no problem burning up fat but will also easily burn up muscle as well? Ehren has a good point with the longer diet making adjustments along the way, but anything you feel you can add and should dnp be out of a fast metabolism equation?

lil amy · Nov 27, 2009

Of all the competitive bodybuilders that my husband and I know, none of them used DNP and they all get in fantastic shape. Diet hard, do your cardio, and take the proper gear and you will be just fine. That DNP stuff sounds very scary!!!!!

ericraven2003 · Nov 27, 2009

lil amy said:
Of all the competitive bodybuilders that my husband and I know, none of them used DNP and they all get in fantastic shape. Diet hard, do your cardio, and take the proper gear and you will be just fine. That DNP stuff sounds very scary!!!!!

Done in low amounts there is nothing scarey about it. Doing it on top of a great diet and cardio cannot be beat.

qbkilla · Nov 27, 2009

Some of you say to take gear when dieting. But assume that time on = time off, and you always follow a 10 week cycle with 10 weeks off (or 16 weeks on 16 off, whatever). WOuldnt you rather be ON when your trying to gain muscle? So if you were to use gear when cutting, it would mean you would have to be off when trying to make your lean gains.

parrajm · Nov 29, 2009

Newman said:
Interesting post bro.

I've read that DNP MAY be carcinogenic, but I haven't verified that through research.

The thing is, just because a substance is technically classed as a toxin, that doesn't necessarilly mean it's off limits to use. For example, for occassional use, OTC painkillers can be beneficial, yet they are classed as hepatoxins. My point being that just because a substance falls into a certain (negative) category, that doesn't mean the negative property is significant enough to preclude it from sane use by informed individuals.

Regarding your hypothesis about DNP blocking cellular nutrient uptake, I'm thinking that although you may be correct, the blocking effect is likely insignificant in comparisson to the fat burning quality effected in the typical dosages used 4 dieting. If it were significantly catabolic by blocking nutrient uptake, then it wouldn't be so popular, would it? Sure it could be coasting along on brolore, but I think if it were significantly catabolic, then we'd know that by now.

Also, just because a chemical is used for industrial non-food & non-pharma applications, that doesn't mean it's bad for us. Glycerol is used in making TNT, but it's great for increasing fluid retention & aiding muscle pumps, not to mention it is used topically in moisturizing skin creams & cosmetics.

Peace.

Good points. Toxicity may not be a reason to rule out most things but DNP's properties as a mitochondreal poison are extremely unique. Where we know the liver's response to additional toxins, the properties of DNP's toxicity have far less research behind them. I also worry that poisoning the mitochondria would damage them or destroy them even in the short term use we would be considering for DNP use in general though this may or may not occur as the basis for the action of DNP is the uncoupling of ATP. Its a very interesting compound. But I would be largely hesitant to use it unless absolutely necessary.

On a different note, if anyone who has taken DNP could tell me their body weight, lean mass%, and body temps along with concurrent dosing I would be very interested to see exactly how much your body heats up on DNP.

mike1107 · Nov 29, 2009

New_Mass said:
so you believe in the hard diet only, this way your bound to sacrafice some hard earned muscle though, whats your thoughts on the dnp route since it is in the article section and is being used?

with a smart diet you aint losing muscles