DOGGCRAPP I've Been Wanting To Ask You This For a Long Time.

[Twatta]

row

Vince Gironda preached a row similar to this. But he used some type of arm bands to pull with in stead of bar.

 

[ebbtest]

That's how I do them... Stretches the crap out of your back.

 

[Ironraider]

I found this video on Youtube

I think this is the proper form... Thats pretty much how I used to do them when I was training DC style

back wm 6 22 09 - YouTube

Correct...IMHO...I've seen one, from Justin Harris maybe (?), where he is on a bench...and it doesn't have to be affixed to the pully machine, and using ropes, like you would find for tricep extensions.

He was sitting forward, like in the video here...and leaning way forward, and only bringing his arms back, like he was pulling through his elbows...if that make sense. The key seemed to be in the stretch, and contraction of the lats...nothing else mattered.

I also "believe" it was his widow maker for his back workout...which to those who don't know...somewhere around 20-30 reps.

Maybe the good Dr. will chime in after he's done counting his millions!

 

[sarcoplasm]

I'm honored that this thread has grown into something that has benefitted us all but still want to hear more on Daves dramatic improvement via DC........Dante?

 

[Jeremy24]

Bumping this thread up because its areally good read and im hoping Dante hops in with a few responses

 

[Rickjamesbiddle]

I would like to see sone before and after photos of David Henry to see the real difference that the change in training made. Also if doggcrapp could elaborate on what he thinks are the physiological reasons that people would respond better to more frequent small volume workouts than as opposed to increasingly higher volume workouts that the majority of elite athletes use to exel in their sport.

 

[cm]

**broken link removed**

not being a shit head, but who needs the before. The after tells the story for David.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I would like to see sone before and after photos of David Henry to see the real difference that the change in training made. Also if doggcrapp could elaborate on what he thinks are the physiological reasons that people would respond better to more frequent small volume workouts than as opposed to increasingly higher volume workouts that the majority of elite athletes use to exel in their sport.

No prob

First pic: Here is Dave the year or 2 years before i got him (he hates that pic...LOL) and he is 163 pounds in it

Second pic: Here is Dave's last show..he has been as high as 230 in the offseason
He is back from a tour of duty with the air force so we are trying to build him back up again to full hilt...he told me yesterday he was at 217 and we are going to try to get him up to 240 before he starts dieting again (he is 5'5" and a half)

Homonuncleus on this site (Scott Stevenson) who Ive also taken thru DC paces...has been Daves training partner, guidance and prep coach.....if you want to talk why Dave always comes in shredded....there is your answer.

Second part of your question: Because everyone is obsessed....and I include myself in that group when i started out. Everyone has the MUST principle. They want to get big so fast that they think "if i do flat presses incline presses decline presses, flatflyes, inclineflyes, dips, and cable crossovers Ill leave no stone uncovered and my chest will be big. Everyone and myself included starts out with the "I must annihilate and bomb myself into devastation of tiredness in todays workout or I wont get big"......for two years when I was very young I myself did leg workouts like this

4 leg extensions
7 sets of squats
4 hack squat
4 leg press
4 front squat
4 lying leg curl
4 standing leg curl
4 seated leg curl
4 stiff leg deadlifts

all work sets....used to take me 3.5 hours on saturday...I would be destroyed. I gained a paltry 2 pounds of muscle during those 2 years while eating like a horse. I started to think out...jesus what is actually working and what is total bullshit fluff here....The "obsessive compulsive I must do this" principle that you think you need to do to gain size. I started removing the bullshit fluff.

And when a bodybuilder starts realizing that hypertrophy comes from taking a squat from 185x12 to 500x15 reps instead of 39 sets of glycogen depleteing bullshit....he will get on the fast track.

 

[aussiebulldog]

I would like to see sone before and after photos of David Henry to see the real difference that the change in training made. Also if doggcrapp could elaborate on what he thinks are the physiological reasons that people would respond better to more frequent small volume workouts than as opposed to increasingly higher volume workouts that the majority of elite athletes use to exel in their sport.

Ask to see before and after pictures of Cedric's Arms...this will show you how well it works even on the most advanced.

 

[Ironraider]

Great comparison...and words of wisdom that many of us have walked through with the training aspect, to realize it does far more harm than good. But then, we didn't have Dante, or the likes to tell us to back off and grow.

Back in the day, you pick up an M&F, and whatever the pros are doing you double it... nonsense.

 

[aussiebulldog]

Great comparison...and words of wisdom that many of us have walked through with the training aspect, to realize it does far more harm than good. But then, we didn't have Dante, or the likes to tell us to back off and grow.

Back in the day, you pick up an M&F, and whatever the pros are doing you double it... nonsense.

Yes , waiting every month for the new arm routine that together with the right powder will get your arm over the 19"....

and they always looked so happy and healthy on the cover.

at least the bb girls looked better in those days.

 

[Newkidontheblock]

Ill try to hit on this but I wanted to cut and paste a little bit of my methodology that i had written on intensemuscle last week. And then ill explain what was done with Dave and what is being done today.

****watch out clicking on the musculardevelopment jay moore pictures individually down below...I just tried and it came up with a trojan warning, so musculardevelopment.com might be having some probs with their contest pics...its only if you hit on the individual pics

--------------------------------------

What does every starting out bodybuilder want in bodybuilding? To get the biggest the fastest way possible. What is the number one problem in bodybuilding? Getting shredded? Hamstring detail? separation? No its size. Most bodybuilders arent big enough and they need to be bigger, especially at the lower levels of the sport.

So what puts muscle mass on a person the quickest way possible? Training progressively recovering and training progressively again, repeat repeat repeat.

Everyone has a genetic blueprint, some will have standout arms, some have standout legs, some have standout chest and back, some have crappy everything, some have standout everything <---and this is the group you see usually go on to be very successfull bodybuilders if everything else falls into place. You dont see any of the top 10 Olympia guys walking around with no arms or a crappy back.

What you have in the beginning is what you are going to have in the end and it is starting to piss me off seeing how many bodybuilders on these boards have their heads up their ass in reasoning of what training CAN and CANNOT do. Peter Putnams back is subpar....do you think that is a product of his training routine or his genetic blueprint? ITS HIS GENETIC BLUEPRINT. His training routine didnt produce his subpar back, just like Milos's training routine didnt produce his subpar arms, just like titus's training routine didnt produce his subpar chest. Should I assume since Jay Cutler likes to do volume training that that training routine produced Jays wider waist? Did Markus Ruhls training routine produce his subpar triceps? Every single bodybuilder can try their best to improve weak bodyparts and if you get really intricate with it there are ways to do it (both with a quirky weird exercise way and also the Ruhl way..LOL)......but your genetic blueprint both impedes you and lets you succeed in the sport.

So back to DC training. What training routine will get your unique genetic blueprint the absolute largest muscle mass wise in the shortest time possible? IMO training bodyparts progressively 74 times a year or so beats training bodyparts progressively 52 times a year....and you quickly get up the size ladder which AGAIN is what this is all about. IN 4 years you would be doing close to 300 workouts for chest vs 200 workouts for chest in those 4 years with typical training. THATS A BIG DIFFERENCE in hypertrophy.

So where are you at that point? Are you large enough now that if i was training you I would change things frequency wise? You could be. But that beginning phase needed to be taken. Even today I have advanced guys who were injured or even someone like Dave Henry who want to put their size back on pronto and go back to the MON WEN FRI MON or MON TUES THURS FRI split.

So I want you to grasp something because I keep seeing people saying "this kind of training or that kind of training produces this"

Branch Warren and Johnny Jackson are training partners and have been for many many years off and on. Branch has also lifted with another guy for almost 20 years now. Without a doubt their progressive heavy training has produced incredible thickness (especially with Branch's and Johnny's chests), Johnny's back, their delts, their traps. There is no doubt that their progressively heavy slag iron training has resulted in serious dense tissue. Now their training.....The very same training that has lead to Branch's monstrous legs has produced Johnny Jackson's achilles heel (his leg size)....is Branch's training to blame? No its the genetic blueprint....could Johnny do something that increases his quad size a little bit more. Yea he would probably have to get pretty ingenious and figure out something weird that might eke (and i do mean eke because he is near 40 now and been training a long time) a little more size out of those quads.....but lets not mince words....he is never going to even get remotely close to Branch in quad size. The very same training that produced Branch and Johnny's insane thickness over the last 20 years has produced their training partners physique Muscular Development Online Magazine - Jay Moore - NPC Europa SuperShow 2008

Im not taking anything away from Jay Moore but obviously he is not on the level of Branch or Johnny even though he has been blasting away for decades in the gym side by side with them. Do you see monstrous quads? Do you see the 6 inch thick pecs that johnny and branch have? Should I assume then that Branch Warren's training doesnt produce thick chests and results in subpar legs because of Johnny Jacksons and Jay Moore?
My point is this. DC training is devised to get you as large as humanly possible the absolute quickest....and at that point (if i was training you i would look at you and switch you over to something that i think can fix the weaknesses that your genetic blueprint has given us)....so hypothetically if you are 20 years old and 5'9 160 and want to be big one day.....you DC train for 4 years and now you give me a guy who is 5'9 210....awesome...i got a really good peice of clay to work with now.....whereas if you followed some 52 time a year bodypart training routine i might have a guy who is 5'9 185 and i have to tell you "well you need to put a few more years of bombing away into this bro because you still dont have the size"
So what do i do at a point that a guy has gotten up to a good size bodybuilder? I access his physique and i go after his weaknesses. If at that point he is really good size muscle mass wise but with some weaknesses, do you know how much easier my job just got? 1000 times over easier.
So you guys allready know this but i split the body into roughly 2 ways for guys who need muscle mass and need it the fastest way possible. For intermediate guys I still want them building muscle mass fast so i usually split the body up threeways and work on some weaker bodyparts that way with extra work.
At the elite levels where you are talking a really big boy, someone like Cedric or Dusty or Dave or Dave Smith or Homonuncleus or someone who has alot of muscle mass packed on their frame.....I like to go with this plan of attack usually

sunday chest and abs
monday biceps and forearms and calves and abs
tuesday hams and quads
wenesday off
thursday shoulders and triceps and abs
friday back calves and abs
sat off

Why? Because their size is built...they need to increase in size still which this still does .....but the number one problem at this level is how to bring up weaker bodyparts usually.

So a sunday chest workout might look like something like this

incline smith press
all warmups and then
allout restpause set for 13-20rp

Hoist or Hammer decline press
all warmups and then
allout restpause set for 13-20rp

Flat dumbell press
all warmups and then
allout STRAIGHT set for 12 reps

stretch

rope pulldown ab crunch
warmups and then all out set for 30 reps rest paused or 20 reps straight.

Now if that person had a weak bodypart I would probably get pretty unique with his training...and find weird exercises that put him into mechanical positions that he hasnt done before.......for example biceps...if someone has been doing biceps for many years they have used the plethora of exercises out there...and all variations of curls are obviously not doing the trick....i have them do 3 distinct variations for biceps that they have never done before and that usually gets their biceps to respond...(I hit on this a while back with that GET WEIRD WITH IT thread i left)

I digress.....so what you are seeing above is a gameplan. A gameplan that alot of people are forgetting about.....a gameplan alot of people on other boards who have their head up their ass just dont grasp....

How do you become an elite bodybuilder trainingwise as quickly as possible?
By following a routine by a professional bodybuilder who is allready massive and doing every foo foo exercise he does (even when it wont do jack shit for you right now except to impede into your recovery so you cannot train that bodypart again quickly?)
or
Train progressively and short with alot of frequency.....get your overall size up as quickly as possible....at that point you might have standout bodyparts and some bodyparts that are somewhat behind or heck you might be pretty even......you then reaccess your physique (AT A POINT WHERE YOU TRULY HAVE ENOUGH MUSCLE MASS THAT PEOPLE ARE ASKING IF YOU ARE A BODYBUILDER) and at an intermediate point try to keep getting bigger by compromising a little bit of frequency with widowmakers and weird exercises to get weaker bodyparts to respond.......tiem goes by.........you then get to a point where you are a pretty massive individual and frequency goes to the point where everyone else is at and you get after it getting subpar bodyparts up.

Is the gameplan clearer? Nothing pains me more than seeing a guy with 16 inch arms wondering if he isnt doing enough volume and thats why he isnt growing.

HERE IS THE BASIC SECRET...IM GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU...YOUR GOING TO FEEL REALLY DUMB AFTER READING THIS SECRET BECAUSE YOU ALLREADY KNEW IT

The road that takes you here (most importantly FOOD, supplements, and if you make that decisions someday... even drugs) and the day you

Incline press 405 for 12 reps
smith military press 330 for 12 reps
deadlift 550 for 12 reps
close grip bench press 405 for 12 reps
deep squat 500 for 20 reps
pulldown 400 for 15 reps
dumbell curl 80's cleanly for 20 reps
etc etc etc etc

or just the road you take in trying to achieve the above will result in you being massive as a bodybuilder....within what your own genetic blueprint will allow you.....if you have ronnie colemans blueprint let me be the first one to congratulate you on your Mr Olympia wins.

It is that simple....

-----------------------------------------------------

I just Jizzed.........

 

[Ironman2010]

That before and after is absolutely mind blowing! Lol....And its great that DC has chimed in with this post, its become a real good one.

I've tried this sort of approach this off-season and ill have results up very soon, when i started dieting for competition last year i was 192lbs to start with, now im starting at 232lbs...3 days into prep now...ill have to update as it goes on but i really do believe that this is the quickest way to grow! Awesome stuff

 

[Jeremy24]

Dante i was hoping, just to cure the curiosity of a few others and myself included, you could dive into what u do with the advanced guys. i know ur a busy guy but if u have a second that would be awesome

 

[discohornet]

Correct...IMHO...I've seen one, from Justin Harris maybe (?), where he is on a bench...and it doesn't have to be affixed to the pully machine, and using ropes, like you would find for tricep extensions.

He was sitting forward, like in the video here...and leaning way forward, and only bringing his arms back, like he was pulling through his elbows...if that make sense. The key seemed to be in the stretch, and contraction of the lats...nothing else mattered.

I also "believe" it was his widow maker for his back workout...which to those who don't know...somewhere around 20-30 reps.

Maybe the good Dr. will chime in after he's done counting his millions!

I tried this exercise yesterday. Very interesting. But I have to ask.

If you turn your head sideways looking at the screen while watching this video, one would swear he's doing a pullup. Is there an advantage to this exercise versus doing pullups?

 

[discohornet]

Dante i was hoping, just to cure the curiosity of a few others and myself included, you could dive into what u do with the advanced guys. i know ur a busy guy but if u have a second that would be awesome

If you want DC's attention you need to get specific. He's already basically answered your question here. Progressively increase their weight until he can do the numbers he mentioned and then he does weird shit to bring up problem parts. The advanced people are those people who need weird exercises for trouble parts and each one will be as unique as a snowflake.

 

[discohornet]

"I must annihilate and bomb myself into devastation of tiredness in todays workout or I wont get big"......for two years when I was very young I myself did leg workouts like this

The studies I'm reading currently, and will be including in an article, show a very significant AR receptor downregulation following heavy volume workouts. So those lab geeks that always get criticized on boards like this have come to the same conclusion you have. Big difference is their torturing rats to come up with these answers, you're teaching humans how to STOP torturing themselves.

I think of all this like suntanning while trying to avoid getting a sunburn. It's not the sun that makes you tan, or even burn. It's your body's hormonal system that dictates whether you are going to be golden or whether you're going to blister and peel.

Expose yourself to just enough of the catalyst for change and then get out of there. Any more than what is needed to set off the cascade of change is going to result in uncontrolled inflammation and will undo what you have been doing.

Doesn't mean it shouldn't suck. Just make it suck long enough to trigger the anabolic response and then get the hell out of the gym and feed.

But this is Dante's thread, and I don't want to come off like some "Me Too!" prick.

 

[Wolfsanglerune]

The road that takes you here (most importantly FOOD, supplements, and if you make that decisions someday... even drugs) and the day you

Incline press 405 for 12 reps
smith military press 330 for 12 reps
deadlift 550 for 12 reps
close grip bench press 405 for 12 reps
deep squat 500 for 20 reps
pulldown 400 for 15 reps
dumbell curl 80's cleanly for 20 reps
etc etc etc etc

or just the road you take in trying to achieve the above will result in you being massive as a bodybuilder....within what your own genetic blueprint will allow you.....if you have ronnie colemans blueprint let me be the first one to congratulate you on your Mr Olympia wins.

It is that simple....

this is about the sensible things i have read on this subject in ages.

 

[Jeremy24]

If you want DC's attention you need to get specific. He's already basically answered your question here. Progressively increase their weight until he can do the numbers he mentioned and then he does weird shit to bring up problem parts. The advanced people are those people who need weird exercises for trouble parts and each one will be as unique as a snowflake.

Those weird exercises he does with Cedric, Dave, Steve, Dusty etc. is what im curious about. Not that im going to run out and try them. Im sticking to the basics of DC maybe forever idk making gains and thats all that matters. But my brain likes to know things

 

[Jeremy24]

The road that takes you here (most importantly FOOD, supplements, and if you make that decisions someday... even drugs) and the day you

Incline press 405 for 12 reps
smith military press 330 for 12 reps
deadlift 550 for 12 reps
close grip bench press 405 for 12 reps
deep squat 500 for 20 reps
pulldown 400 for 15 reps
dumbell curl 80's cleanly for 20 reps
etc etc etc etc

or just the road you take in trying to achieve the above will result in you being massive as a bodybuilder....within what your own genetic blueprint will allow you.....if you have ronnie colemans blueprint let me be the first one to congratulate you on your Mr Olympia wins.

It is that simple....

this is about the sensible things i have read on this subject in ages.

agreed i know a few guys who can touch those numbers and they are all massive