Economic Bad Times for many

[OuchThatHurts]

This mostly applies to US citizens and I'm sure many of you are feeling the effects of economic downturn. For those not in the US, you probably already know what is going on here. I don't want a political hate thread so I'll just say that a combination of problems here in the US have forced the American people into homelessness, foreclosure, unemployment, and general financial hardship of all kinds.

I just wanted to extend a note of sympathy out there to all those people and families. I have been forced to write off more losses this year than I ever have by people that simply just cannot afford to pay some days it almost seems like not-for-profit organization around here.

I just wanted to create a thread to allow anyone to tell their story if they wish. While most Americans are strivng to figure out how they make if from one week to the next and keep food on the table, other Americans are having hardships of another variety. Let quote a recent ABC story to demonstrate:

"A lot of those people will have to sell their homes, they're going to cut back on the private jets and the vacations. They may even have to take their kids out of private school," said Frank. "It's a total reworking of their lifestyle."

He added that it's going to be no easy task.

"It's going to be very hard psychologically for these people," Frank said. "I talked to one guy who had to give up his private jet recently. And he said of all the trials in his life, giving that up was the hardest thing he's ever done."(1)

I posted the above excerpt to show you how ridiculous and upside down things have become here. To my foreign brothers and sisters in foreign countries that think Americans are lazy or self-indulgent or carry with them an inflated sense of entitlement, I want to assure you that only a small percentage of Americans act and live this way. America is made up of hardworking men, women, and families just like our foreign counterparts. It's the leadership and our economic domestic and foreign policies that are tearing us apart from within. It's hurting Americans and hurting foreign people as well.

Rather than get into all that, if you feel you need to vent or just dump, feel free. I'm sure you'll find plenty to sympathize with your situation, including yours truly. I'm writing this because I've seen and listened to so many stories in the last few months that the situation can simply no longer be ignored.

Again, I'm asking you please not turn this into a political rant thread. Ranting about politics at this point is pointless. We just need to stick together and be there for each other.

(1) ABC News: The Fall of the Gilded Age

 

[pesty4077]

I know how you feel Ouch. I got a reality check, when my million dollar a year business, almost went broke. I had to give up a few vehicles, downsize my house.I lost over a $150,000 from my business, almost filed bankruptcy. While things are going a little better, not as good as it used to be. I still consider myself lucky, still making decent income. To all the people out there not making it, go where the market is leading, that my include changing you profession. BE WILLING TO MAKE CHANGES!

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I know how you feel Ouch. I got a reality check, when my million dollar a year business, almost went broke. I had to give up a few vehicles, downsize my house.I lost over a $150,000 from my business, almost filed bankruptcy. While things are going a little better, not as good as it used to be. I still consider myself lucky, still making decent income. To all the people out there not making it, go where the market is leading, that my include changing you profession. BE WILLING TO MAKE CHANGES!

The ability to be mobile and change is key but for many, it's just not that easy. You have to be versatile enough to make changes and go where the money is - but that takes money too. Many are simply trapped and so many people are stuck in homes that they are slaves to now that the property has negative equity. It's rough.

Safe bets are industries that are goods and services which are staples of everyday life. I remember one of my professors telling me, "During the gold rush, there was always one guy with money in his pocket and that was the guy selling the picks." It's very true. I've always tried to put myself in partnerships and businesses that I knew, no matter what the economic climate, people would still need what I was offering. I was fortunate to make good real estate decisions in not owning too many high-priced properties. There will always be someone in need of a less expensive apartment or house even if the appreciation is not as rapid for the owner.

Medicine is always a safe bet, technology is another. There will always be sick people and sick computers. In other words, put yourself in a place where you skills or goods are needed, not just wanted.

 

[alecaf]

Great post. Always seem to agree with you point of view, its always very reasonable and well thought out.

 

[abolish the weak]

My buddy is a plumber, and he makes awesome money. It's a dirty job sometimes, but no matter what happens everyone will need a plumber. If I could learn a new trade that'd be the one

 

[Muay Thai]

great thread

ouch i have been following your tips and posts for a while now and think you are a great asset to the board

stay positive stay close

 

[B1gJ1m]

Very good post OTH. Although I consider myself lucky to have a good job with a well established global company, I realize that with the stroke of a pen, my situation could change. I think we as a nation need to help each other out if possible, patronize the small independant business owner and contribute to our communities in every way possible. Stay strong and together we can weather the storm.

 

[cpesloco]

Things have def changed the past few years. I had to close my sports bar, which set me back around 80k. So I basically picked up an additional monthly payment after restructure just to avoid BK. Housing market sucks, my house is 65k under value right now. I did debate on taking the easy way out and filing BK and starting fresh but my pride is just to strong for that.

Plus side, I have a great job, make good money, and can pay all my bills. I do not have the abundance amount of extra cash I used to have but things are starting to get better. My kids are healthy and we haven't experienced any catastrophic damage from the storms that have been pounding the US.

Keep your heads up!

 

[morepain]

the economy changed alot of things in me. It made me re-think my whole lifestlye. I realized just how much money i was wasting on supplements, too much food, and other things. I cut my supplements to just a good protein, creatine, and fish oil along with a multi. I now only eat three to four meals including protein shakes. These changes alone saved me several hundred dollars per month.

 

[hotttsauce]

Great post to have especially with the news about 2 more financial groups going under FDIC and becoming commercial banks and the ridiculous byout the president of AIG is getting worth 22 million dollars (wonder how much of our dollars from the Federal handout). Word is he DID refuse it.

We actually had 2 multi-million dollar deals fall through from all that is going in in the insurance industry.

So now for our financials and growth plan for '09, we need to come up with 6 million dollars in additional revenue just to meet our goals and projections for stockholders. This doesn't take into account the drop in revenue from current clients where I anticipate at least needing an additional 1 million dollars in new business to cover the losses.

Grand total 7 million bucks '09. Gee, that should be soooooo easy

 

[wrought]

Ranting about politics at this point is pointless.

I understand your sentiment here that's like getting together to discuss what to do about the broken couch while ignoring the 800lb gorilla that's still sitting on it.

It hasn't made a dramatic impact up here yet, but I've made changes simply because its just a matter of time until the ripple hits. This has a global impact and we all tighten our belts to get through the tough times but turning a blind eye to why things are like this only ensures that it will continue to happen.

 

[Sassy]

This whole situation was damn if you do damn if you don't.

My brother works for a finance company that is owned by AIG. This company handles the majority of schools, universities, hospitals and other small businesses retirement plans. If AIG went bankrupt, it would have taken a toll on all average middle class work's retirements that are managed by the company.

As far as Everlast and I, our houses still have not sold. They have now been on the market for a year and 9 months. Now I'm waiting to hear if the company I work for has been sold or not. Tomorrow we have "visitors" (our competitor) coming in for a meeting regarding the company. They have already sold off one division of the company. It was relocated to CA and everyone was laid off. Now we wait to hear our fate. With Everlast's business being so slow, I don't know what we're going to do about the three house payments. We will also end up with no health insurance.

OTC... to read that petty crap about someone whinny about giving up his private jet and vacations just pisses me off. Not at you... at those type people, and the greedy basters who we're living above their means that got the rest of us who have spend our entire live living below our means into this mess. Now we will be the ones who has to pay for it.

I was taught to put a certain percent of your income away in a saving account. When we were children, my parents would take part of any money we received for birthday, christmas, etc and put it in the bank. I started my first IRA when I was 23 years old. It was my first year out of college... my first job.

The only reason we are in the mess with the two houses is because we just got married in Dec and we both had houses. In order to keep his business in TN, we had to move to there. In hind sight, we probably should have stayed in his house, but how were we to know. At the time we bought the new place, the houses in my neighborhood were selling in 30 to 90 days. I never dreamed we would have trouble selling it.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

This whole situation was damn if you do damn if you don't.

My brother works for a finance company that is owned by AIG. This company handles the majority of schools, universities, hospitals and other small businesses retirement plans. If AIG went bankrupt, it would have taken a toll on all average middle class work's retirements that are managed by the company.

As far as Everlast and I, our houses still have not sold. They have now been on the market for a year and 9 months. Now I'm waiting to hear if the company I work for has been sold or not. Tomorrow we have "visitors" (our competitor) coming in for a meeting regarding the company. They have already sold off one division of the company. It was relocated to CA and everyone was laid off. Now we wait to hear our fate. With Everlast's business being so slow, I don't know what we're going to do about the three house payments. We will also end up with no health insurance.

OTC... to read that petty crap about someone whinny about giving up his private jet and vacations just pisses me off. Not at you... at those type people, and the greedy basters who we're living above their means that got the rest of us who have spend our entire live living below our means into this mess. Now we will be the ones who has to pay for it.

I was taught to put a certain percent of your income away in a saving account. When we were children, my parents would take part of any money we received for birthday, christmas, etc and put it in the bank. I started my first IRA when I was 23 years old. It was my first year out of college... my first job.

The only reason we are in the mess with the two houses is because we just got married in Dec and we both had houses. In order to keep his business in TN, we had to move to there. In hind sight, we probably should have stayed in his house, but how were we to know. At the time we bought the new place, the houses in my neighborhood were selling in 30 to 90 days. I never dreamed we would have trouble selling it.

I just read that there are enough homes on the market to support the real estate demand for the next 5 years! Now they're talking about this $700B bailout (yes BILLION) that could easily run close to a TRILLION dollars!!! The taxpayers will buy the bad debt which will raise the current national debt to over $11.3 trillion dollars. The national debt in 2000 was 5.7 trillion dollars. If this market continues to crash, bailout cost could easily reach a trillion dollars pushing that ridiculous increase from 5.7 - 11.3 trillion dollars or higher in just 8 years! Eleven trillion dollars looks something like this:

$11,325,456,437,398.76

I don't even want to think what happens when this economic meteor finally craters on the surface. Sometimes I seriously contemplate total liquidation and just getting out of here before there are no rafts left on this Titanic.

I hate to leave America. I grew up here. It's been my home almost as long as I can remember. But today's America is a slightly different America than it was before the Reagan era when debt and corporations really started to get a good foothold (see figure 1). I know everyone is not going to come out of this okay but I still with the best for all of you.

Figure 1.

 

[thebrick]

Its scary out there right now. I am not sure you can even run from it. Worldwide economies are so connected anymore. Although most of my income comes from healthcare and I have not been affected much by the economy, its easy to see that things are not healthy out there and will not be for a long, long time. I have rethought my spending habits and putting more back, just in case.

Do you believe that history runs in cycles? I think maybe it does, although I am not sure why it would necessarily be. Maybe its human nature? Is anybody familiar with the books "Generations" or "the Fourth Turning"? The authors theorize that history unfolds in cycles of roughly 80 to 100 years. If what they say is true, we are about to enter a period of some scary times.

 

[Sassy]

I just read that there are enough homes on the market to support the real estate demand for the next 5 years!

My real estate agent told me that only 52 houses have sold in the county this year. None in my neighborhood. I know 2 houses have sold for sale by owner, but still that doesn't make much difference. It use to be 42% Mexican, but the carpet mills have been laying people off. Now we've got a 7% unemployment rate, so the Mexican's are leaving town looking else were for work. Because they don't care much about their credit ratings, they are foreclosing on their houses. My agent told me they have had as many as 8 foreclosures in one day.

Brick... I'm with you on the cycles. History dose repeat its self. With all these investors pulling their money out of the stock market, it's cause it to tumble even more. At this rate, it will end up crashing if they don't stop.

When I graduated from college, we were in a recession. About the time got better for me, I ended up getting a divorce at the same time 911 hit. To settle we had to sell off investments, so it all ended up a loss. I'm just getting on my feet again and now this. I just for once would like to know what it's like to have good finances.

 

[mooshue]

I don't really feel bad for the people who screwed themselves by knowingly purchasing homes far beyond what they could afford, fuck em. I don't feel bad for agents or brokers who knowingly pushed and sold these loans and raked in millions from it, fuck em harder.
I do feel bad for the people who are suffering indirectly, small business owners, job cutbacks, people who bought new homes when their old hadnt sold because they could afford to keep em both for a few months, layoffs for construction etc.... but that's the risks you take when you take on those types of jobs.
I saw a great quote by someone on one of those news shows, "successful people are doing the opposite of what everyone else is doing"

I for one am doing just that, i've been in my brand new home for about 9 months, we go on vacations often, we buy new things almost every week, then again we chose professions that don't really get affected by what goes on around us. Everyone needs computers and needs them fixed asap, and medical research will never stop as long as there are people who aren't sick!!

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I don't really feel bad for the people who screwed themselves by knowingly purchasing homes far beyond what they could afford, fuck em. I don't feel bad for agents or brokers who knowingly pushed and sold these loans and raked in millions from it, fuck em harder.
I do feel bad for the people who are suffering indirectly, small business owners, job cutbacks, people who bought new homes when their old hadnt sold because they could afford to keep em both for a few months, layoffs for construction etc.... but that's the risks you take when you take on those types of jobs.
I saw a great quote by someone on one of those news shows, "successful people are doing the opposite of what everyone else is doing"

I for one am doing just that, i've been in my brand new home for about 9 months, we go on vacations often, we buy new things almost every week, then again we chose professions that don't really get affected by what goes on around us. Everyone needs computers and needs them fixed asap, and medical research will never stop as long as there are people who aren't sick!!

That's all cool mooshue and seriously, good for you. The point of the thread however, was for people to unload if they're feeling not so good, caught in the maelstrom of a turbulent economy, and experiencing hardship. Whether or not it's their fault is irrelevant. I'm not willing to put a "only if it wasn't your fault" rider on the thread!

I think your advice possibly has some merit but I'm not sure it equates to simply doing what everyone else is not doing. Besides, if you're in either the medical or technical field as you implied you are, you're not exactly doing the opposite of what everyone else is doing. Medicine and technology are both very large and vastly growing sectors. The rest of your post was just "fuck 'em" and "I'm doing well."

I'm happy for you and wish you continued success but simply ask that you try to be more understanding. People make mistakes and often it's the result of their own doing. But that's no reason to say "fuck 'em". I'm not saying you have to start a foundation for them but you can try to at least care. It still eventually will affect you too. It's difficult to do though, I know. It is for many. Personally, I think a lot of good, hard-working people are in really bad times right now. Whether I'm one of them or not should not be the determining factor in whether or not I'm sympathetic or willing to try to help. Honest engine, though, this is no flame whatsoever on you so please don't take it that way. Heck, if I had my way, everyone would be doing well. It would be good for them and make my life easier in the process.

 

[pesty4077]

My real estate agent told me that only 52 houses have sold in the county this year. None in my neighborhood. I know 2 houses have sold for sale by owner, but still that doesn't make much difference. It use to be 42% Mexican, but the carpet mills have been laying people off. Now we've got a 7% unemployment rate, so the Mexican's are leaving town looking else were for work. Because they don't care much about their credit ratings, they are foreclosing on their houses. My agent told me they have had as many as 8 foreclosures in one day.

Brick... I'm with you on the cycles. History dose repeat its self. With all these investors pulling their money out of the stock market, it's cause it to tumble even more. At this rate, it will end up crashing if they don't stop.

When I graduated from college, we were in a recession. About the time got better for me, I ended up getting a divorce at the same time 911 hit. To settle we had to sell off investments, so it all ended up a loss. I'm just getting on my feet again and now this. I just for once would like to know what it's like to have good finances.

I'll see your 7% and raise you to 10%. Yes, that is what my county unemployment rate(keep in mind that doesn't include welfare and people whose benefits have run dry.)I get sick of corporate bail outs, when they make us pay for it. Where is the goverment bailout on my small business that fail?

 

[Sassy]

I'll see your 7% and raise you to 10%. Yes, that is what my county unemployment rate(keep in mind that doesn't include welfare and people whose benefits have run dry.)I get sick of corporate bail outs, when they make us pay for it. Where is the goverment bailout on my small business that fail?

Government bails them out and the corporate executives get their "golden parachutes"... Lehman Brothers CEO Richard Fuld received a $22.1 million in compensation, including a bonus, for 2007... that's just wrong!

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Government bails them out and the corporate executives get their "golden parachutes"... Lehman Brothers CEO Richard Fuld received a $22.1 million in compensation, including a bonus, for 2007... that's just wrong!

Yes, and that 40 million alone makes up a fairly hefty percentage of the proposed 700billion.

I can't image if I poorly managed my company, accrued all sorts of debt and bad investments, payed myself and other execs gigantic salaries, and then when everything crashed, the American taxpayers would be forced to...


send me money???

Sounds like an episode of the twilight zone.

Note to self: Get listed on an exchange ASAP!!!