Efficacy of Testosterone testing?

mindstar · May 20, 2009

Hey folks, I have a question and the people here seem about the smartest I've seen on the net regarding BBing...so here goes.

So I had a meeting with a new Dr today and disclosed that I occasionally use self-perscribed HRT

and was interested in having my free and total test levels checked as well as some other things. She proceded to tell me that the tests for testosterone weren't effective and wouldn't tell me anything. I assume she meant that T levels vary throughout the day, but she made it sound as if the test was useless and that measuring hormone level was next to impossible.

Is this the case? I would think not, but maybe recent literature I haven't read points in this direction?

She also seemed a little confrontational (while telling me she wasn't confrontational) and told me that falling gh and hormone levels were 'natural' and that I shouldn't do anything that contravened nature. Ugh. When I mentioned that myriad of diseases occur naturally, she claimed that those weren't the same because they were malfunctions. I don't know about you, but I consider declining quality of life and eventual death a major malfunction...lol. Oh, and she was obese. So hard to bite my tongue.

utex45 · May 20, 2009

Time to find a new doctor who freakin has a clue about aging and hormone levels. Oh wait I see you're in Canada...so getting a new doctor might take a while.

Why is it most doctors only want to treat things when they get out of hand instead of practicing preventitive medicine.

Tom · May 20, 2009

ya know

i'm beginning to think we are better off self-medicating rather than dealing with these assholes. 150 mgs test divided over 2 doses weekly, 250 iu's hcg twice weekly the days following test injections, and aromasin 12.5 mgs per day. this is exactly what i'm considering for hrt.

mindstar · May 21, 2009

i know, it's ridiculous. What really bothered me is that she wasn't even interested in having a conversation around the matter; she just assumed i was an idiot juice head and she was the expert. While she may have more education specific to the medical field, she does not magically posses the ability to understand articles, studies, and logic in a more profound way than I can. These people aren't the decision makers with respect to health, at best they are educated advisors...and I'm the goddamn ceo. Explain it to me, and do a good job presenting BOTH sides of the argument, give me advice, and then let me make my own, educated choice.

Ok, sorry for the rant.

On another note, my old doctor in my last city was awesome and was generally interested in the sort of dialogue that i think is constructive.

SacToSD · May 21, 2009

Let me be the first to tell you that a lot of people who get through med school aren't automatically qualified to make important decisions about your health. This might seem counter intuitive, since they are doctors and they're supposed to have your best interest in mind. But unfortunately, it's the truth. A lot of the people that get through med school these days are actually pretty naive when it comes to certain things. The simple truth is that they haven't done the kind of research that's necessary to deal with the myriad of problems people present with. What they are qualified to do is treat conditions that they know how to treat... things they've actually studied and have experience in dealing with. When you start bringing things like "testosterone deficiencies" to overweight women docs, they're going to give you the deer in the headlights look. I guarantee that she doesn't know half as much as 95% of the people on this board when it comes to male hormones. Let me be even more frank. Doctors -- like her -- have a rehearsed act that they've been practicing for years. It's called the "feign interest and then throw up a smoke screen" tactic. You'll notice that docs like her always have the same approach, and it's designed to take advantage of you... here it is in a nutshell: They will listen to you intently, pretend that they understand completely, and then give you a list of reasons why you have a "misconception" about something, while citing reasons that seem to support their argument. It's BS, amigo. It's supposed to delude you into thinking that she knows what she's talking about, and get you out of the office (and keep her from billing any expensive tests to her HMO). If you knew half of the ego-bloated know nothing know it alls (remember the kissy butt little girls that sat in the front row in 3rd grade?) that I do that went through med school you'd have a lesser opinion of doctors. Especially hefty broads with poorly masked bad attitudes. I'd file a complaint, if I were you, and say that she intentionally neglected to run appropriate -- and necessary -- tests.

Grit · May 21, 2009

I am fortunate to have a DR that I am straight with. I have had blood work done through him to check levels. I belive that the tests may not be 100% but do give you indacators. I say this because I have been tested twice and knowing my body well I predicted results both times and was spot on. So for sure it can't hurt.
On a side note it is a shame that most can't be open with there Doctors about AAS ,use in fear of ridicule or that it may get on your chart and insurance get wind and somehow refuse you care. It should be study far more than it is now and doctors should welcome that and use individuals who will choose to use anyway as case study.

Suffocation · May 21, 2009

this is what I will be considering for HRT also when I turn 40 in a a couple of years..

Tom said:
i'm beginning to think we are better off self-medicating rather than dealing with these assholes. 150 mgs test divided over 2 doses weekly, 250 iu's hcg twice weekly the days following test injections, and aromasin 12.5 mgs per day. this is exactly what i'm considering for hrt.

Ursine Muscle · May 21, 2009

Women docs

I will add this to my list. I have NEVER heard a story about a female doctor dealing with anything re: male hormones professionally. They either go by some book publish in 1955 or give doubletalk. And the bigger the guy, the more BS they sling.

I went to a well known hemotologist here in NYC about too many red blood cells. I brought here all the background of my AAS use to show her that it wasn't related to usages 100%. But when she asked about AAS and I said yes--it was cut and dried. And that 15 mins was $350 bucks. She didn't even bother to see that I had already done her homework and my concern was that even if I was off for six month, my red blood cells were still high.

Another story was about the relationship between low test and diabetes with a friend. He was overweight, but the female doc refused to give him test.

Best thing is to find a doc who is a lifter if possible. They exist.

617ricky · May 21, 2009

Good post SacTo.. I think it has to do with a large number of these GP's just going by the book, and not wanting to go near things like HRT in healthy looking guys, opiate painkillers, benzos, etc.. Cuz those are things that could come back to haunt them down the road in rare cases.. It's fucked up that this is the case, cuz alot of people may not get the meds that would really help them.. They're just playing the role of a family doc doing checkups and seeing just typical abnormalities.. But something like this, I think a red flag goes up in their head and they're not gonna touch it, and probably just try and outright discourage it..

maldorf · May 21, 2009

cant stereotype like this

Ursine Muscle said:
I will add this to my list. I have NEVER heard a story about a female doctor dealing with anything re: male hormones professionally. They either go by some book publish in 1955 or give doubletalk. And the bigger the guy, the more BS they sling.

I went to a well known hemotologist here in NYC about too many red blood cells. I brought here all the background of my AAS use to show her that it wasn't related to usages 100%. But when she asked about AAS and I said yes--it was cut and dried. And that 15 mins was $350 bucks. She didn't even bother to see that I had already done her homework and my concern was that even if I was off for six month, my red blood cells were still high.

Another story was about the relationship between low test and diabetes with a friend. He was overweight, but the female doc refused to give him test.

Best thing is to find a doc who is a lifter if possible. They exist.

My endo is a female and is now prescribing me 150mg/wk. my levels are now up to normal and I feel much better. She had no issues doing this after she saw that my test levels would never recover on their own. Only thing she is watching now is my hematocrit to make sure it doesnt get too high. If its ok, she might raise my dose some more. Ive already raised it once.

PS. It is kinda hard telling a female doc that you arent getting wood anymore, but once she heard that she got out the script pad lol!

SacToSD · May 21, 2009

617ricky said:
Good post SacTo.. I think it has to do with a large number of these GP's just going by the book, and not wanting to go near things like HRT in healthy looking guys, opiate painkillers, benzos, etc.. Cuz those are things that could come back to haunt them down the road in rare cases.. It's fucked up that this is the case, cuz alot of people may not get the meds that would really help them.. They're just playing the role of a family doc doing checkups and seeing just typical abnormalities.. But something like this, I think a red flag goes up in their head and they're not gonna touch it, and probably just try and outright discourage it..

Very true. A lot of docs won't go near TRT/HRT because of the potential legal/professional ramifications. I was talking with a doctor today about this (he's an MD), who also happens to be in a partnership with a compounding pharmacy here in California. He specializes in hormone replacement therapy and cosmetic surgery... and you know what he had to tell me? Can you guess who his clients are? Women. And, he prescribes testosterone all the time. To women. What's the T for? Low libidos. It's so fucked up I don't even know where to start. A woman complaining of vaginal dryness will have fewer workups/labs and have an easier time getting prescribed testosterone than a man who has a legitimate medical issue. It just sickens me to see guys like the original poster complain about medical issues and get denied treatment, when on the other hand, you get some 50 year old ex-soccer mom with a dry crotch getting a script no questions asked.

mindstar · May 21, 2009

yeah, it's a shame really, as I sort of see the conversation that could revolve around health as a way for both practitioner and patient to learn...but oh well. I'm going to get another Dr I think.

Just to be clear though, testosterone testing is accurate and a meaningful measure of total T levels? She was claiming that it wasn't, though I suspect she was conflating the idea that there is no univerally medically acceptable level for 'low t' as well as the fact that test levels vary over the day.