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L-Carnitine Reduced Efficacy of T3

it definitely has some effect on the efficiency of t3. ive started my cut 4 weeks ago and i take 50µ t3.i also started taking 3g inj l-carnitine eod.
i am not sure if it influences the metabolsim effect since i am definitely flat, but what i know is that my heart rate barely rose with this 50µ t3 whereas in the past
it made a +15-20bpm bump
 
Well lets look at it from a "bro science" point, so far we have alot of diff well nown BBérs using it and no one sofar have had any issues loosing fat or getting in shape, so im kinda wondering what exactly you are lookin for here ? and btw before ppl jump down my throat im all for discussing stuff i love the science, im just having issues here finding out what the problem is we are lookin for ?
I think that’s a good real world observation.
I just wonder if anyone has actually noticed more fatloss from using it.
 
Well lets look at it from a "bro science" point, so far we have alot of diff well nown BBérs using it and no one sofar have had any issues loosing fat or getting in shape, so im kinda wondering what exactly you are lookin for here ? and btw before ppl jump down my throat im all for discussing stuff i love the science, im just having issues here finding out what the problem is we are lookin for ?
Not trying to sound rude with this, but did you watch the video? I understand if not, it’s pretty long. However, if bro science anecdote (which I am also all for) is indeed what you’re looking for, he mentions a scenario of it in the video of someone taking it out and then continuing to see the scale drop after they plateaud (scale dropped actually TOO much, likely because they were on more t3 than needed because it wasn’t as effective).

However, to address your point here specifically

so far we have alot of diff well nown BBérs using it and no one sofar have had any issues loosing fat or getting in shape, so im kinda wondering what exactly you are lookin for here ?

We have to remember, just because the metabolism is less efficient because the t3 isn’t working as well, doesn’t mean you can’t still get lean. All it means is it will be more difficult. If you want it bad enough, and if you do enough cardio/drop food enough you’ll still get shredded. There’s no denying that. The point is, more so, that you may just be shooting yourself in the foot by adding l Carnitine in when you think you’re adding something beneficial.
 
Not trying to sound rude with this, but did you watch the video? I understand if not, it’s pretty long. However, if bro science anecdote (which I am also all for) is indeed what you’re looking for, he mentions a scenario of it in the video of someone taking it out and then continuing to see the scale drop after they plateaud (scale dropped actually TOO much, likely because they were on more t3 than needed because it wasn’t as effective).

However, to address your point here specifically



We have to remember, just because the metabolism is less efficient because the t3 isn’t working as well, doesn’t mean you can’t still get lean. All it means is it will be more difficult. If you want it bad enough, and if you do enough cardio/drop food enough you’ll still get shredded. There’s no denying that. The point is, more so, that you may just be shooting yourself in the foot by adding l Carnitine in when you think you’re adding something beneficial.
Honestly No i did not, maybe i should, but i watch so many many videos constantly so i try to use my time smart :)
personally i have never had issues getting into shape using L-Carn inject but never went above doses of 800mg a day and i dont mean stage ready just sommer fun ready, personally i have found it easier to get in shape with l carn and just and overall nice cherry on the top of things when using it.
 
it definitely has some effect on the efficiency of t3. ive started my cut 4 weeks ago and i take 50µ t3.i also started taking 3g inj l-carnitine eod.
i am not sure if it influences the metabolsim effect since i am definitely flat, but what i know is that my heart rate barely rose with this 50µ t3 whereas in the past
it made a +15-20bpm bump
why would you use 3gram ? The advice i got from Meadows was 400-1000mg a day no more is needed.
 
why would you use 3gram ? The advice i got from Meadows was 400-1000mg a day no more is needed.
you think at 2g eod there is no effect on thyroid but at 3g the switch magically is triggered and t3 effect is gone?
 
I used just 200mg ed for a long period of time and it was hard as hell for me to put on any fat, and it made dieting fat off faster......so all this thyroid talk 🤷🏿
 
I've had some smart coaches and they damn near all recommended injectable L-carnitine.
John Meadow
Jason Theobald (scoobyprep)
Phil Viz
Just to name a few, with all these guys clients if they saw reduced thyroid action and not enhanced fay burning they would not have it in their protocols.
 
Honestly No i did not, maybe i should, but i watch so many many videos constantly so i try to use my time smart
Very understandable. I work in a warehouse with AirPods in all day… I legit run out of things to listen to so I’m a bit spoiled on that department.

I’m not for or against its use, just trying to create discussion with the info presented here. Based off @M@NU having that experience, and you and @b-boy having no issues… I would logically conclude with what we have that the issue as far as it effecting t3’s ability to enter the cell as something that isn’t going to show in the real world at a more “reasonably” dosed protocol.
 
Honestly No i did not, maybe i should, but i watch so many many videos constantly so i try to use my time smart :)
personally i have never had issues getting into shape using L-Carn inject but never went above doses of 800mg a day and i dont mean stage ready just sommer fun ready, personally i have found it easier to get in shape with l carn and just and overall nice cherry on the top of things when using it.
I used just 200mg ed for a long period of time and it was hard as hell for me to put on any fat, and it made dieting fat off faster......so all this thyroid talk 🤷🏿
This is what I was looking for.
I don’t dismiss studies but when it comes to building muscle and getting lean I value real world experience.

Hard as hell to put on fat sounds pretty damn useful. I only hear about people using it for fatloss.
 
Very understandable. I work in a warehouse with AirPods in all day… I legit run out of things to listen to so I’m a bit spoiled on that department.

I’m not for or against its use, just trying to create discussion with the info presented here. Based off @M@NU having that experience, and you and @b-boy having no issues… I would logically conclude with what we have that the issue as far as it effecting t3’s ability to enter the cell as something that isn’t going to show in the real world at a more “reasonably” dosed protocol.
That is deff my experience and the ppl around me who used the same protocol, i love how we can talk and discuss things without it ending in a fight :)
 
Hey Guys!

OK, yes, this can seem to be a bit complex, but if you take a few seconds to look at this figure it might help:


If you're really interested, and this sounds like I'm trying to be a shill, but the article isn't mine to advertise as I wrote it for John's site, I would check out the article I wrote for mountaindogdiet (or at least listen to the two podcasts that have been posted here or in another thread I just posted in where I cover the topic.)

[IMPORTANT - Just above, some folks are talking ORAL doses along the lines of grams, e.g, 2 vs 3g and others are talking about injecting hundreds of milligrams, so that's some of the confusion in the last few posts above.

---------------

Does L-Carnitine help with fat oxidation?... Yes.

Does L-Carnitine (potentially, at some does) have a negative effect on thyroid hormone action? Yes.

We don't have an exact dose-response curve, e.g., to see what happens when you progressively increase L-Carnitine (and the stores take some time to build up / deplete) in terms of whatever slowing of metabolism would occur.

So, this dose-response curve would be time dependent given the time it takes to increase / degrees L-Carnitine and the route of administration (oral / injectible/ injectible with lots of carbs/ insulin), so this adds another complicating factor.

For example, A given higher end oral dose (e.g., 4 grams orally) might take weeks to build up over the course of a diet and at that point then, when deeper in the diet, someone might find they would also tend to reach for T3 or T4 anyway. In the case of a high L-Carn dose, they could potentially use the T3 earlier or feel they need more (base on resting HR, morning temperature, how the diet is going in terms of fat loss), than when the NOT using L-CARN in the diet (BECAUSE the L-Carn is limiting thyroid action to some degree).
---> THE ABOVE is what I've heard from a few guys now: with L-Carn (or higher L-Carn supplementation ) they ended up using more T3 than in previous diets.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE could be - this is one I just heard from a guy who's recently been on the Olympia stage - that when using both L-CARN (no Thyroid used in this case, but this person has a Juan Morel level metabolism - no, it's not Juan!) and when the L-CARN was removed deep in the prep, between shows, the competitor started dropping size, which could be explained by releasing the L-CARN brake on his metabolism. In other words, for him, his very active / responsive thyroid makes adding / holding size difficult and inadvertently the L-Carn was slowing his metabolism, which became evident when he removed the L-Carn.


NOTE HERE (See the figure linked above) that 1.) elevated T-3 (being hyperthyroid) will deplete L-Carnitine, whereas 2.) adequate T-3 is necessary for adequate ENDOGENOUS L-Carn production (hypothyroidism would / could mean reduced L-carnitine stores, or at least less endogenous production).
-----
So, 1.) if you're running high T3, you might be low in L-Carn (this is likely variable like damn near everything) and benefit by ADDING L-Carn.
OTOH, 2. ) if you're low on T3, d/t your diet, and not running T3, this means your L-Carn stores may be low (depending also on diet), so adding it could help with fat loss.

So in both those cases, L-Carnitine HELPS! LOL!

------------------

So, we've got these two molecules playing off and interact with one another in an intricate (cool as shit) way in the unenhanced, non-supplemented situation (along with of the possibility, too that exogenous L-Carn in the diet can be affecting this interplay).

THEN, when you consider what we're talking about:
1.) Artificially elevated L-Carn by injecting it (with insulin) a/r taking "massive" supplemental oral doses (relative to what you could eat in most circumstances) Plus
2.) Using exogenous thyroid sources that can make you hyperthyroid (perhaps to match being "hypercarnitine").
3.) That the impact of L-Carn on Thyroid ACTION does not manifest clearly in bloodwork (and I'd love to find some mechanistic data on this, as it suggests non-nuclear regulation of the thyroid axis in terms of feedback inhibition, etc.)

You've got something I figure those of us who might be using L-Carn, T3 (or T4) and checking bloodwork, might want to know about.

And yes, I've seen L-Carn work well for folks for sure, so I'm not saying it can't be used effectively of course. (I've used it and had clients use it.) This is just info. that can perhaps for some better inform their use in case they are tripped in a vicious cycle of adding more and more of each and not dropping fat, or decide to remove L-Carn (if they have trouble holding size when at very low BF%) . :)

-Scott
 
Everytime I add carnitine in I improve. It compliments things very well and it's one of my fav supplements to take. I have never had any issues with fat burning. I know it's been stated it's not thyroid blood markers but after years of on/off usage I have never had any issues in that regard. I don't use t3/t4 so it's a non issue for me. Like with anything common sense needs to be used and whilst a high dose can be effective I recommend cycling carnitine on/off through the year.
Ok, from going through many threads, I'm confident that you are the best resource when it comes to taking L-Carn (injectable). I have never used it, but just got mine waiting at home to go. The only reason I have not started yet, is because I have already made some PED adjustments within the last couple days, and want to better be able to know what is doing what.

So that brings me to getting your feedback; after taking your shot pre-wo, what should someone expect to feel? Increased body temps, perspiration? Increased energy, focus, drive and or other mental stimulating effects? AS such compared to caffeine, clen, T3 etc?

Oh, I would also like to comment, in regards to the T3 reduction....just inject some into you and see how it works.
 
Oh, I would also like to comment, in regards to the T3 reduction....just inject some into you and see how it works.
That the impact of L-Carn on Thyroid ACTION does not manifest clearly in bloodwork (and I'd love to find some mechanistic data on this, as it suggests non-nuclear regulation of the thyroid axis in terms of feedback inhibition, etc.)
Well, that’s part of the issue… you can’t just check bloodwork to see if it is effecting you

I’ll be honest, I really have no clue why people use L Carn when it can possibly be counterproductive and we have so many other options both supplement and drug wise that can we can utilize to put our bodies in a state of burning fat.
 
Ok, from going through many threads, I'm confident that you are the best resource when it comes to taking L-Carn (injectable). I have never used it, but just got mine waiting at home to go. The only reason I have not started yet, is because I have already made some PED adjustments within the last couple days, and want to better be able to know what is doing what.

So that brings me to getting your feedback; after taking your shot pre-wo, what should someone expect to feel? Increased body temps, perspiration? Increased energy, focus, drive and or other mental stimulating effects? AS such compared to caffeine, clen, T3 etc?

Oh, I would also like to comment, in regards to the T3 reduction....just inject some into you and see how it works.

Every time I add it in I always notice I get hotter in the gym and I sweat more but other than that no other "side effects". When I used very high doses of oral l-carnitine I got a tightness in my neck but that hasn't happened any other time. The mains effects I have noticed from it are improved body composition and increased vascularity (the later comes on very fast for me).

It doesn't give me any stimulatory effects and is nothing like caffeine or ephedrine. That brings me onto the main reason why it's so good and might answer the previous post about not understanding why people use it when there are other fatburners. Yes there are better things for burning bodyfat but all of them come with side effects. L-carnitine gives me no bad side effects and if anything improves my health so I think it's a fantastic compliment to any cycle. I also like preworkouts so I try to avoid any other stimulants so you won't see me taking in high doses of caffeine (or things like ephedrine) throughout the day. Well maybe if I wanted to get my leanest ever something like ECA might come in in the final few weeks but other than that I try to avoid taking loads of stimulants.

I am a huge fan of DNP but I am always pretty lean so there is no reason for me to take it a lot as it's simply not needed. Clen I don't like at all for various reasons including the trembling which I hate because I have had issues with my nervous system so that is bottom of the list for me. I also don't like to play about with my thyroid and would only do so if it were needed so I don't use t3 or t4. L-carnitine won't transform you like some drugs can but it's a great compliment both for your physique and your health.

Regarding T3 I have had bloodwork done many times on it and I have never had an issue with my thyroid so it's a non issue for me. I have never thought it has stopped me getting leaner but if others have simply don't use it. If you really want to know get bloodwork done before and during your cycle and see if things change and that way you can weigh up the blood work info, physique changes and side effects then decide if you want to use it again.
 
If you really want to know get bloodwork done before and during your cycle and see if things change and that way you can weigh up the blood work info, physique changes and side effects then decide if you want to use it again.
That the impact of L-Carn on Thyroid ACTION does not manifest clearly in bloodwork (and I'd love to find some mechanistic data on this, as it suggests non-nuclear regulation of the thyroid axis in terms of feedback inhibition, etc.)
Why does this keep being ignored?…
 
Well, that’s part of the issue… you can’t just check bloodwork to see if it is effecting you

I’ll be honest, I really have no clue why people use L Carn when it can possibly be counterproductive and we have so many other options both supplement and drug wise that can we can utilize to put our bodies in a state of burning fat.
Possibly be counterproductive? There is no definitive study that proves yes or no, unless I missed it? However, we do have well respected and knowledgeable members on this board who have shared their REAL results with injectable L-Carnitine - all positive.

No offence, but if everyone went by the 'possibility' of something negative happening after injecting or ingesting any of the plethora of PEDS, SARMS, PEPTIDES, BP Meds, et al; then this site would be better suited for a bunch of sweater knitting Karen's.

Using ANY drug, always comes with a 'possibility' of risks. But, we still do it, and outweigh the risks to benefits. Bodybuilders are the real clinical studies and human trials, but unfortunately each and every one of us are different and everything will affect everyone in a different way, therefore we cannot quantify any clinical results. But you will only know, if you are willing to try it. And after many many many years of bodybuilding, I have learned that myself and almost every true bodybuilder are risk takers, and willing to do what it takes to get results.

Could you imagine the world of bodybuilding, if everyone was micro managing every aspect of any drug that had a 'possibility' to be counterproductive or unsafe? I'm not saying there can or cannot be an issue with injectable L-Carnitine and thyroid function, but I won't know for me, until I try it. If I feel there are any concerns of low thyroid function, then I will follow up with a thyroid blood panel.
 
Every time I add it in I always notice I get hotter in the gym and I sweat more but other than that no other "side effects". When I used very high doses of oral l-carnitine I got a tightness in my neck but that hasn't happened any other time. The mains effects I have noticed from it are improved body composition and increased vascularity (the later comes on very fast for me).

It doesn't give me any stimulatory effects and is nothing like caffeine or ephedrine. That brings me onto the main reason why it's so good and might answer the previous post about not understanding why people use it when there are other fatburners. Yes there are better things for burning bodyfat but all of them come with side effects. L-carnitine gives me no bad side effects and if anything improves my health so I think it's a fantastic compliment to any cycle. I also like preworkouts so I try to avoid any other stimulants so you won't see me taking in high doses of caffeine (or things like ephedrine) throughout the day. Well maybe if I wanted to get my leanest ever something like ECA might come in in the final few weeks but other than that I try to avoid taking loads of stimulants.

I am a huge fan of DNP but I am always pretty lean so there is no reason for me to take it a lot as it's simply not needed. Clen I don't like at all for various reasons including the trembling which I hate because I have had issues with my nervous system so that is bottom of the list for me. I also don't like to play about with my thyroid and would only do so if it were needed so I don't use t3 or t4. L-carnitine won't transform you like some drugs can but it's a great compliment both for your physique and your health.

Regarding T3 I have had bloodwork done many times on it and I have never had an issue with my thyroid so it's a non issue for me. I have never thought it has stopped me getting leaner but if others have simply don't use it. If you really want to know get bloodwork done before and during your cycle and see if things change and that way you can weigh up the blood work info, physique changes and side effects then decide if you want to use it again.
Thank you for this excellent breakdown. It's what I needed to know, as I'm also not wanting to add any more stimulant based products to my daily routine. I also agree that injectable L-Carnitine is not a magic liquid that will shred pounds of fat, but the many other health and performance benefits are just another bonus to be added to the tool box. Thank you for all the time and effort you have put into the threads with your experience.

But now after reading this thread, I'm starting to think more about what I'm doing. Because I'm on a good dose of test, and there is a 'possibility' that I may begin to grow man-boobs. And I'm taking a lot of GH and my forehead may begin to protrude.

In all fairness, not being a jerk, but my sarcasm comes after reading so many newer members on the boards who are knit picking at things that they will not get an answer for and will only know from real world experience. If it scares ya, skip it. If you want results, try it. If it works, great! If not, drop it and move on.
 
Possibly be counterproductive? There is no definitive study that proves yes or no, unless I missed it? However, we do have well respected and knowledgeable members on this board who have shared their REAL results with injectable L-Carnitine - all positive.

No offence, but if everyone went by the 'possibility' of something negative happening after injecting or ingesting any of the plethora of PEDS, SARMS, PEPTIDES, BP Meds, et al; then this site would be better suited for a bunch of sweater knitting Karen's.

Using ANY drug, always comes with a 'possibility' of risks. But, we still do it, and outweigh the risks to benefits. Bodybuilders are the real clinical studies and human trials, but unfortunately each and every one of us are different and everything will affect everyone in a different way, therefore we cannot quantify any clinical results. But you will only know, if you are willing to try it. And after many many many years of bodybuilding, I have learned that myself and almost every true bodybuilder are risk takers, and willing to do what it takes to get results.

Could you imagine the world of bodybuilding, if everyone was micro managing every aspect of any drug that had a 'possibility' to be counterproductive or unsafe? I'm not saying there can or cannot be an issue with injectable L-Carnitine and thyroid function, but I won't know for me, until I try it. If I feel there are any concerns of low thyroid function, then I will follow up with a thyroid blood panel.
I mean in the case of L-carnitine you have the studies/scientific explanation why there might be an issue with thyroid function which would be counterproductive as @aHarness stated. You use something that you believe helps you stay leaner while it MIGHT to the opposite.
And criticising him while, again, completely ignoring that the thyroid issue IS NOT REFLECTED on bloodwork as stated several times brings a smile to my face.
 

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