EQ and joint pain!

[MR.BICEPS]

Why is it that evertime I use EQ my joints begin to ache?

 

[RIV]

EQ is supposed to help joints, no? its supposed to be one of teh best at it, next to HGH. first i have heard of this.

 

[Maverick]

EQ should not make your joints ache. Are you sure that it is the EQ and not something else you may be doing. The water retnetion alone should help lube up the ol' joints.



Maverick

 

[RIV]

yeah are you sure teh EQ and winny bottles didnt get mixed up man?

 

[FRKNHUGE]

u guys couldnt be more wrong
deca is just abt the only compound that makes ure joints feel better, besides test that is.
eq in essence like winny dries u out, makes u harder and more vascular
and with all AAS, eq is supposed to dry out your tendons in some respect, its a warning i remember reading years ago, which i completely believe seeing i use EQ every cycle i have done over the last 3 years
it does effect the joints in a negative way, in no way does it help them IMO
if i can find the article ill post it abt the tendons and water.
frk

 

[Maverick]

Frk,

I wasn't aware of this. I would like to read some info on this if you have it because I am quite up on all the research on AAS and I have yet to read a study or article that claims EQ dries out joints. I am quite interested in knowing the mechanisms behind that theroy.




Maverick

 

[RIV]

this same article is here somewhere.. posted by weight77 and reposted on RM by Ivan

Good read about tendons.

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS, the decision is up to you.

 

[Maverick]

Nice article on tendons but joints are completely different than tendons.




Maverick

 

[Willy]

Bump

Thanks RIV been researching this topic for a week or so, since i have a bad knee and dont want to do anything in my upcoming supplamental program will cause possible reinjury to knee. Does anyone know positive or negative affects tren has on this topic? I have a jug of ip parabolan, One of my bros is using it and loving it but he does not have joint probs like me so looking to you bros for help...

 

[MR.BICEPS]

u guys couldnt be more wrong
deca is just abt the only compound that makes ure joints feel better, besides test that is.
eq in essence like winny dries u out, makes u harder and more vascular
and with all AAS, eq is supposed to dry out your tendons in some respect, its a warning i remember reading years ago, which i completely believe seeing i use EQ every cycle i have done over the last 3 years
it does effect the joints in a negative way, in no way does it help them IMO
if i can find the article ill post it abt the tendons and water.
frk

Exactly right because this is my third time running EQ and its done this too me every time!

Thanks for the info !

 

[MikeS]

All that about the tendons is really interesting; however in real experience of
most EQ does dry out joints, as does winny. Deca and test seem to help most. Probably there are other factors involved.

 

[Willy]

bump

thanks mikes for your post, I was thinking of adding eq now I will not MikeS says in his experience it will detrimental thats good enough for me. I have been lurking for many many years and MikeS is in my view as one of the most knowledge bro's out there. Thats what makes these boards so great having guys like him take the time help. thanks again.\\


Willy

 

[G.E.R.M]

..

EQ is indicated in the treatment of connective tissue repair in pigeons...

 

[Trulyhuge]

The only thing I have ever used that dried me out was winny...never again will i use it. No pain whatsoever w/ EQ!

TH

 

[MikeS]

Winny is the worst for sure. But Ive heard about EQ alot too.
I have also heard that in certain animals EQ repairs joint problems.

I posed a theory that the progesterone properties from deca would possibly
be one reason why it helps joints. For the same reason winny has anti-progesterone properties and causes joint problems/pain. Someone gave me an involved explaination as to collegen involvement and how this was somehow the reason. I cant recall what the exact point was, but it just makes sense about the progesterone reasoning.