Estrogen and PCT

[Steve123]

Good MOrning,

I'm hoping those with experience can chime in on this. I've done a pretty good amount of reading on the topic of PCT. Honestly, it's one area that confuses me more than the cycle itself. I've come away with some confusion because some are saying that Estrogen should be crushed during PCT.

Is the goal in PCT really to recover natural Testosterone to pre-cycle levels or is it to prevent Estrogen related side effects until Estrogen and Testosterone reach their natural equalibrium? From what I understand it's unlikely that anyone will fully recover in 30-40 days but that given 60-90 days, with strict attention to diet, rest and training, it's very possible.

BUT, if you take compounds like Arimidex or other AI's during PCT, thus pounding Estrogen levels into submission, don't you run the risk of prolonging the hormonal imbalance? Why not leave estrogen alone, block it's effects with a SERM (nolva seems the best choice) and allow E to gradually fall off as Testosterone gradually rises? I would think that this would be better for overall well being, libido etc.

It would seem if you crush estrogen, you'll get a faster increase in test but then after PCT you'll end up with a rebound that throws you back out of whack again and just prolongs the recovery phase.

Sorry for the novel. Please let me know if either I'm overthinking this or just plain confusing myself. This is just good stuff to fully understand before having at myself with a pin

Thanks

 

[tkav1980]

the thinking behind pct is to bring your body back to a state of homeostasis. pounding your system with more drugs will not do this. some believe that it will even prolong this process. it is my opinion that pct should be done on an at need basis using only nolva as long as no side effects are present that would dictate the addition of another compound.

also the use of hcg during a cycle will prevent testicular atrophy, or at least help with it, and possibly speed up the post cycle recovery process by keeping the boys working throughout the cycle.

its not a popular method but i prefer a test taper opposed to other forms of pct. you gradually over the course of weeks lower your dose. the idea is that with less exogeneous test your body will have to readjust hormone levels to maintain a balance in your body. this gradual change will start to "bring things back on line" to help get your body back to its normal way of functioning.

what ive stated is personal opinion based on personal results with different pct protocals. with a test taper and hcg i have not needed nolva or clomid or any of the other myriad of ancillary drugs. you may react differently. i base my conclusion on what kind of crash i experience post cycle. for me the last time i used a test taper i gained 10 lbs during my cycle which ended in may of 2008, since then without any added hormones what so ever ive maintained 8 lbs of that and reduced my bodyfat as well, which would indicate that muscle mass was actually gained since my last cycle...i hope that helps.

 

[Steve123]

TKAV,

That's great info. That Taper idea is interesting. What would that look like. If a guy was thinking of doing a low dose - lets say 300 mg/week . would it just be say 10 weeks at 300; 2 weeks at 150; 2 weeks at 75; and perhaps 1 week at 50?

I know it's a personal and very individual thing. It's funny you mentioned this becuase I've often wondered if "suppression" is really an all or none proposition.

That's a very good idea and it would stil keep the cycle to a reaonable legnth

 

[Chim Chim]

bump

I have also use a test taper with good success. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Steve123]

Thanks man. If either of you guys gets a minute can you let me know what the taper looks like dose wise?

 

[notsobig32]

I am with tkav on this one. I have never needed anything during cycle for sides and as far as pct goes, i have never really never noticed anything being quicker to recover when i did or did not use PCT. A lot of this is based on your body AND what doseages you were taking. If you read in my cycle i posted here in the beginners forum, Dad stated that test tapering is not really needed due to the decay time of test on your system. Meaning that it is self tapering after your last shot. It is not as prolonged of a taper as you can make it by going down to lower test doseages but it does 'taper' off.

 

[tkav1980]

if ti was me for a taper if i was starting at 300mg/wk, id go 250, 200, 150...etc. like it said with a taper its a pretty individual thing. you really need to pay attention to your body and how its responding. the idea of any pct is to get your body back into homeostasis as quickly as possible. the sooner you do that the sooner the post cycle losses stop.id love to hear what big a has to say about this. there are so many guys on here that are much much more knowledgeable than i am and id love the get theyre perspective on it.

 

[Steve123]

Sounds good. I would think that you could even taper and do like a low dose of nolva just to assure protection from any E issues....maybe like 20Mg/EOD or something. I would think that the E will slowly fall off with the taper anyway...it would have to.

 

[Steve123]

Guys here's what I'm thinking:

Test E: 250: 1-10
Test E: 150: 11
Test E: 100: 12
Test E: 100: 13
Test E: 50: 14
HCG: 500 EW (split in 2): 7 -14
Nolva: 20mg: 14- 16 (have a half bottle of IBE liquid. May as well use it and I figure it can't hurt even with the taper)

I can dose this higher because I have 2 ten ml vials of TEST. I would rather save it for another cycle though. AND, this is my first ever time doing any AAS (except for some cheesy PH/S's a couple of year back) so I should be pretty responsive- - and I'm 40yo.

Any thoughts on the taper would be great

 

[tkav1980]

Guys here's what I'm thinking:

Test E: 250: 1-10
Test E: 150: 11
Test E: 100: 12
Test E: 100: 13
Test E: 50: 14
HCG: 500 EW (split in 2): 7 -14
Nolva: 20mg: 14- 16 (have a half bottle of IBE liquid. May as well use it and I figure it can't hurt even with the taper)

I can dose this higher because I have 2 ten ml vials of TEST. I would rather save it for another cycle though. AND, this is my first ever time doing any AAS (except for some cheesy PH/S's a couple of year back) so I should be pretty responsive- - and I'm 40yo.

Any thoughts on the taper would be great

try a nice low dose for 5 weeks. i had a really interresting talk with dad yesterday about this.

 

[Steve123]

you mean for the taper....e.g., 5 weeks at like 75 or something?