estrogen control question

[king1033]

OK now i have arimidex on hand but i choose not to use it, A)i show no signs of elevated estro levels puffy nipple, water retention, moody etc. B) i take a daily dose of 75mg DHEA for sorta a natty way to control estrogen which seems to be keepin me dry. Now the question, Am I making a horrible mistake for not dosing the arimidex (im on 500mg test EW) my bp is good everything feeels ok BUT should i be dosing it reguardless cause even tho i cant see signs of estro levels being high doesnt mean that they are I just dont wanna suffer long term high estro effects the biggie being cancer, hey call me superstitious but id rather be safe than sorry, i know people always say DONT neglect estrogen control which is COMPLETELY understandible i just want to make sure im going about things correctly thats all, so i figured it wouldnt hurt to ask. or does the dhea suffice?

 

[gelatine]

People have cycled without current generation AIs for decades and decades. They're nice to have, but past that...

 

[king1033]

People have cycled without current generation AIs for decades and decades. They're nice to have, but past that...

well that doesnt exactly answer my question, but i really do appreciate the input, id rather go on facts than what others have seemed to get away with, cause even tho they got away with it for decades and decades doesnt mean that slammed into a brick wall with their health when the 3rd decade came around, ya feel me. but thanks for the input.

 

[gelatine]

well that doesnt exactly answer my question, but i really do appreciate the input, id rather go on facts than what others have seemed to get away with, cause even tho they got away with it for decades and decades doesnt mean that slammed into a brick wall with their health when the 3rd decade came around, ya feel me. but thanks for the input.

You're concerned about long term impact of having higher estrogen while on cycle, but have you considered potential long term impact of your AI, which hasn't been studied for half as long as steroids?

 

[king1033]

You're concerned about long term impact of having higher estrogen while on cycle, but have you considered potential long term impact of your AI, which hasn't been studied for half as long as steroids?

again i meant no aggression towards your previous post i welcomed it with open arms, i do realize the potential long term impact of the AI which is why i use DHEA for estro control, just seeing which method the pros are more in favor than the cons thats all. I understand what you are saying tho. just looking for a for the best ultimatum.

 

[shoestring]

What fact are you basing your DHEA use on? I have not seen this before. Adex is bad for lipids, right? I would not use it unless I had signs of bloating, etc.. Aromasin is suposed to be the good one on cycle..

 

[gelatine]

again i meant no aggression towards your previous post i welcomed it with open arms, i do realize the potential long term impact of the AI which is why i use DHEA for estro control, just seeing which method the pros are more in favor than the cons thats all. I understand what you are saying tho. just looking for a for the best ultimatum.

We're cool, both trying to explore all sides of the issue.

Shoestring makes a good point with lipids, and there's sizable a-dex estrogen rebound when you stop.

 

[shoestring]

We're cool, both trying to explore all sides of the issue.

Shoestring makes a good point with lipids, and there's sizable a-dex estrogen rebound when you stop.

Yes rebound too. Also aromasin is ok for lipids & has no rebound. But it is $$ for brand & can be harder to find generic. UG is easy but this is a thread regarding health so...

 

[iprimate]

OK now i have arimidex on hand but i choose not to use it, A)i show no signs of elevated estro levels puffy nipple, water retention, moody etc. B) i take a daily dose of 75mg DHEA for sorta a natty way to control estrogen which seems to be keepin me dry. Now the question, Am I making a horrible mistake for not dosing the arimidex (im on 500mg test EW) my bp is good everything feeels ok BUT should i be dosing it reguardless cause even tho i cant see signs of estro levels being high doesnt mean that they are I just dont wanna suffer long term high estro effects the biggie being cancer, hey call me superstitious but id rather be safe than sorry, i know people always say DONT neglect estrogen control which is COMPLETELY understandible i just want to make sure im going about things correctly thats all, so i figured it wouldnt hurt to ask. or does the dhea suffice?

I think you are making a "horrible mistake" taking DHEA. DHEA is catalyzed into androstenedione which can be catalysed into either testosterone or estrone (E1). Aromatase is responsible for both catalyzing testosterone into estradiol (E2) and for catalyzing androstenedione into estrone. I don't think the DHEA is keeping you dry -- how could it. Even if all of the DHEA were catalysed into testosterone by the enzyme 17βHSD then some of the testosterone would be aromatised into estradiol. The DHEA can only be adding to your levels of E1 and E2. You must be a low producer of aromatase that is why you haven't experienced any estrogenic symptoms. But it is nevertheless risky to (a) take DHEA; and (b) take DHEA without an AI.

Discard the DHEA and get some Exemestane.

Diagram taken from Goodman, H.M. Basic Medical Endocrinology 2002

 

[animal eater]

I was going to say that I have never heard DHEA acting as an AI.

 

[EDED]

lol dhea for natty e control huh?

i read a study showing DHEA directly interacting with ER without any conversion.

sore nips, ouch

maybe you heard DHT, and you forgot it and mistakenly took DHEA ? LOL

 

[king1033]

lol dhea for natty e control huh?

i read a study showing DHEA directly interacting with ER without any conversion.

sore nips, ouch

maybe you heard DHT, and you forgot it and mistakenly took DHEA ? LOL

BINGO and that ladies and gents is why i ask questions! k droppin the dhea

 

[Macro]

exemestane

AIFM is an OTC option

 

[Newman]

exemestane

AIFM is an OTC option

Yes Macro, but if you read the active ingredients list on the bottle of AIFM, you'll see that DHEA is the big player.

I actually drove all the way downtown through mid-day traffic to buy some AIFM from a local supp store only to find the store was permanently closed for business.

I then came home to order some AIFM over the net, but stopped here to read the latest scoop on whater the gang was passing around.

After reading Primate's' warning on DHEA, I think I'll take a pass on AIFM.

Aromasin only 4 me.

That was a close one!

Thanx Primate!

 

[Macro]

read the ingredients???? designed the delivery platform as well as formulated the actives ratio.

DHEA is the ADJUNCT active ingredient in AIFM

ATD is the primary active. Its a potent aromatase inhibitor, just poorly orally bioavailable and with a short half life. TD addresses both these issues the first via a minimum of 10 to 40 fold better uptake and the second due to TD "lag" (time for intire dose to cross the dermal barrier).

Exemestane is essentially a 6-methylated ATD. Though exemestane is an excellent choice.

 

[chris250]

read the ingredients???? designed the delivery platform as well as formulated the actives ratio.

DHEA is the ADJUNCT active ingredient in AIFM

ATD is the primary active. Its a potent aromatase inhibitor, just poorly orally bioavailable and with a short half life. TD addresses both these issues the first via a minimum of 10 to 40 fold better uptake and the second due to TD "lag" (time for intire dose to cross the dermal barrier).

Exemestane is essentially a 6-methylated ATD. Though exemestane is an excellent choice.

Wow!! Learn something new everyday on the board

 

[EasyEJL]

any idea what AIFM's dose of ATD is?

 

[Macro]

any idea what AIFM's dose of ATD is?

yes. but knowing it would not be beneficial to you (except in copying, which is why its proprietary). Dose is specific to delivery platform.

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, just trying to figure out how much ATD powder to add to some Penetrate carrier. got handfuls of both formestane + atd powder, love formestane transdermal but ATD would be interesting to try as well.

 

[Macro]

note- using too high a concentration will increase the risk of local allergic reaction, this is more problematic with the low end carrier solutions (even the the better ones from the "make your own, forums", as high amounts will end up in the dermal layer (comparatively) making skin reactions more likely. Generally most of the OTC carriers get about 1/3 to 1/5 the delivery that AIFM does. which is why the dosing the reccomend, usually means slathering it all over.