Considering running 500 test, 2 grams primo and estrogen replacement therapy

[TakeMore191AA]

How tall are you? Three feet something?? Over 2.5 grams and 30 iu of GH to weight a chunky 200 pounds.............
I just can't jump off this thread..............

5'9" and 1/4 inch in socks 4 years ago, but I may have grown taller from all the GH since then, at the doctor year ago I stepped into their height-measurer in socks and the nurse said 5'9" and 1/2 inch, but it may have been because of her making me tilt my head back a tad bit.

 

[aHarness]

Ppl here used to gang on me by grps saying low test not work

Now that jewet says it ,it is ok

… but this whole thread is filled with people going against it? So I’m not sure where you’re coming from tbh

 

[aHarness]

it is certainly not just a cometic - to check this give someone who is natural or has been running only trt for a long time add 500mg of masteron and I guarantee that he will grow. Of course masteron will be more androgenic than anabolic and will not give such large increases in pure myofiber as e.g. 500mg of nandrolone but it will still build muscle

Agreed completely. It will cause growth for sure, I just believe many of us (including you) are saying if size is your goals there are better routes.

 

[aHarness]

I really don't understand why people think you MUST run high test to get big.

You don't think 1g deca and 1g primo won't make you grow.

I honestly don’t think anyone is trying to say that. I think everyone’s just taken aback by avoiding using test and resorting to injecting e2 just to avoid hair loss (then running high mast and/or primo instead which many are saying they experience hair loss with ((and I get that the theory is that with low test they won’t)), is a bit silly.

 

[aHarness]

throughout all the years in which I gained most of my size there was always test in a dose between 1200-2000mg and total was between 3000-4000mg (I know it's a lot but I did it and I won't lie) I honestly think that a high test base was necessary in my specific case to build size and I know that my friends who didn't gain such large sizes relied on lower test doses - but now that I'm not trying to put on a bigger size my test doses will start to be lower (total is also much lower) but this is what is often said - "don't ask someone advanced what they are doing now and what they did to get there" these are two completely different stories

And for everyone mentioning Jewett, they need to realize he only did the high mast low test approach while maintaining in 212. He grew with high test, and again raised it when going to open.

 

[luki7788]

And for everyone mentioning Jewett, they need to realize he only did the high mast low test approach while maintaining in 212. He grew with high test, and again raised it when going to open.

Yes - now John wrote in his forum log that he intends to use 1g test 1g mast 700mg primo this offseason (mast higher than primo only because he has trouble getting 200mg/l primo right now) and a bit of nandrolone to fill the rest of the needed mg

 

[Orville Shreddenbacher]

This thread has turned into a guilty pleasure of mine . You defended your diet and called your grocery list '" hardcore " before saying you eat apple fritter with intra shakes ..... during work ? If I read that correctly? Reminds me of a guy at the gym , he's a slob and eats bags of juju fish during his workouts to replace all the glycogen he's burning up.

 

[mimo]

J

And for everyone mentioning Jewett, they need to realize he only did the high mast low test approach while maintaining in 212. He grew with high test, and again raised it when going to open.

Jewett does that test amount because he can tolerate it without AI(even if his E2 is high 100s). Most of his guys can't so they use waaay lower test.

He also said that he increased test to 1.4g and saw zero difference in results and pulled it down to 900mg-1g.

 

[luki7788]

J

Jewett does that test amount because he can tolerate it without AI(even if his E2 is high 100s). Most of his guys can't so they use waaay lower test.

He also said that he increased test to 1.4g and saw zero difference in results and pulled it down to 900mg-1g.

you understand wrong - he ran 1900 mast + 900mg test and switched to 1400primo and 1400mg test and wrote that he did not notice the difference in the pace, it increased but he will not lower the test - he did it only in the prep until the very day of the competition Mr. O took 125mg test daily (875mg week)

 

[bbxtreme]

I think test is best for straight muscle accrual because of the aromatization and the higher IGF-1 from the androgen itself and the extra estrogen. Tren crushes my IGF-1. Type2x said overall tren should be causing a better response from IGF-1 even with lower systemic IGF-1 than with low liver toxic steroids because of upregulation tren has of IGF-1 binding to the receptor, but I just don't find that to be the case. As my systemic IGF-1 goes up I get more HGH side effects, and I take that as it's working better. On Tren with my IGF-1 crushed I'm able to tolerate a higher dose of HGH, i believedoing this is basically wasting my HGH.

I've gotten where I can tolerate a high dose of GH just by suffering through the numb hands and wrist/hand pain and slowly tapering up. As I previously titrated up tren to 2 grams over 11 weeks with 150mg test a week I got up to 30iu HGH, my BP was so jacked that I took a double dose of atenolol to keep bp and rhr down, but beta blockers, at least atenolol are pretty liver toxic and smash IGF-1, I believe that's why when I dropped the tren at 11 weeks and switch to 2625mg Test I was able to stay running 20 to 30iu GH for the next 4 months, then I dropped test to 150mg and GH to 5iu's, that total run was 7.5 months, I tapered off the atenolol over the next few weeks and my IGF-1 started rising, then all of the sudden I started getting massive sides and could only tolerate 2iu GH, I've slowly risen back up to 15iu over the last 8 months, I've even taken 30iu for a few days a couple of times in the last couple of weeks during periods where I don't have to work as much and my hands can tolerate it. I ran my estrogen at 100 to 110 for the duration and I think it's where I feel best, horny af, with low estrogen or even in range my sex drive is significantly less

I believe test, GH and slin is as good as it gets for growth, I'm just stuck on taking a lot of stuff for now and test was causing noticeable thinning of my hairline, so I'm trying something else. I can see in the mirror that a recomp is taking place, it takes an insane amount of gear to recomp in my opinion, or at least GH has to be high af, it's definitely not the way to go.

To those saying my diet is so bad, who's grocery list is more hardcore than mine? My job makes it difficult to keep diet in balance, crazy changing hours, and periods of 2 to 4 hours straight without being able to stop that are constant zone 2 and 3 cardio, I use a chunk of apple fritter and intra-shake before and after to not burn up my legs, but then they totally screw me over sometimes and I'll load up the nutrients and then right before it's go-time they cancel the hard-work and replace it for easy work, when they knew hours before that they were changing it but don't tell me until the exact moment we're about to do it. I'm looking for a job with more stable hours.

Wtf did you just read?
Just my experience and some of my observations on some high doses.

I'll never run bp meds again, on the tren I started with 80mg telmisartan and it didn't do shit, a full pill of atenolol knocked me on my ass for a day instantly dropping bp and rhr by 15 points each, I had to quit it for a day because I was bed-ridden for that day and then taper up from a quarter-pill a day, but i set a rule where if I can't have healthy bp and rhr without bp meds then I don't take the gear that's gonna cause high bp/rhr. I bet half of the people that posted in this thread run high bp on their blast

I’m going to summarize this thread and what every seasoned member here is trying to tell you- those of us who look and live the part.

You are pushing the extremes too far. And that says a lot coming from me (hence my username).

Your problems aren’t coming from your cycles, they’re coming from you pushing your cycles TOO FAR. You do not need that much gear at your size.

You can grow on low test and higher mast/primo. You can grow on higher test and moderate primo/mast. What matters is total MG volume. But your receptors can only handle and convert so much.

I’m a middle of the road guy as I get sides from Test at 1500mg and over. So it’s been a while since I have gone over 1250mg. I make up for the other MG volume using EQ. It’s simple at the day. Don’t take more than you need.

When you’re getting sides from your cycles beyond control that’s when you’ve taken them too far. If you have to inject estrogen, you’ve taken it WAY too far. If you’re maxed out on beta blockers and BP meds- too far.

We are all saying the same thing in different ways. Build your cycle base and put all your focus into your diet and training. Discipline over time is the only secret to this sport. Abusing PED’s and GLP’s will tank your long term progress every time.

 

[Elvia1023]

I honestly don’t think anyone is trying to say that. I think everyone’s just taken aback by avoiding using test and resorting to injecting e2 just to avoid hair loss (then running high mast and/or primo instead which many are saying they experience hair loss with ((and I get that the theory is that with low test they won’t)), is a bit silly.

That particular post had nothing to do with this thread. Definitely nothing to do with the OP as he is proposing his cycle solely due to potential hairloss so people are just highlighting that the compounds he mentioned (especially masteron) are generally worse for hair loss. That post was meant in a general sense as I have seen people post just that numerous times. Posts in this thread were coming from all angles and in no relation to the OP.

I had posted about the OP's situation earlier in the thread but it seems he has made up his mind. He hasn't replied to anyone's good recommendations with any sense that he will think about things and he merely wants confirmation his plan his good. I think he could have 40 negative posts but if he gets 1 positive stating that cycle looks good he will have everything he wanted when starting this thread.

The guy is fat and wants to inject estrogen and is taking 3 GLP-1 agonists and posted tinfoil when asked about his nutrition plan so what can we actually do. Some guys are just destined to be a bit fat. It's frustrating to everyone reading because how wrong can you be especially when looking good on a beach is so simple to attain but some guys are their own worst enemy.

 

[kadafi2]

I know a guy who just ran a dbol only cycle o) and he was made up and put on 15kg in 4-6 weeks and 2 months after his cycle finished he looks exactly the same as when he was natural.

Unfortunately, from what I have noticed, orals give a quick and strong effect, but after stopping it is very difficult to maintain anything from it. Something like easy come, easy go. And taking them without testosterone, I am not surprised that everything dropped to zero.

You write various conversions, as if the total amount of mg were the only thing that mattered, but isn't it the case that testosterone is the ONLY steroid that has its unique properties, perhaps unexplored by science, because it occurs naturally in our body? I agree 100% that steroids are synergy, which is why adding some anabolic to testosterone will always give more than taking testosterone alone, but I do not believe in testosterone doses of 250 ew, plus a lot of anabolic steroids and huge mass progress. Simply put, once again: in my opinion, testosterone has its unique properties, maybe some people genetically feel them better, but you cannot take too little of it and count only on other compounds, because the amount of mg is correct. Genetics are genetics, but some things work for most people, testosterone sometimes seems to be underestimated.

 

[kadafi2]

Oh, author: it's best to invest in a shampoo against hair loss, because you're figuring everything out and your hair will fall out anyway. Instead of pouring so much stuff, reduce the doses and save the remaining money for a transplant if it bothers you that much.

 

[traininsane11]

5'9" and 1/4 inch in socks 4 years ago, but I may have grown taller from all the GH since then, at the doctor year ago I stepped into their height-measurer in socks and the nurse said 5'9" and 1/2 inch, but it may have been because of her making me tilt my head back a tad bit.

Probably also depends on the brand of the socks you wore were they pharma or UGL

 

[IceCream]

Probably also depends on the brand of the socks you wore were they pharma or UGL

his sock have lifts - so he really 5’7 1/4 inch !

 

[Jefe]

who's grocery list is more hardcore than mine?

Just because you buy healthy stuff doesn’t mean you’re actually eating it.

Aren’t you the guy that eating a ton of sugar crap? Maybe that’s a different thread, if so, beg my pardon.

My wife buys tons of healthy stuff but eats fast food at least twice a day and throws out veggies when they go bad.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Yes - now John wrote in his forum log that he intends to use 1g test 1g mast 700mg primo this offseason (mast higher than primo only because he has trouble getting 200mg/l primo right now) and a bit of nandrolone to fill the rest of the needed mg

I’ve never found a primo above 100mg that doesn’t knot me up like CRAZY. More injection volume is worth not having knots.

 

[aHarness]

That particular post had nothing to do with this thread. Definitely nothing to do with the OP as he is proposing his cycle solely due to potential hairloss so people are just highlighting that the compounds he mentioned (especially masteron) are generally worse for hair loss. That post was meant in a general sense as I have seen people post just that numerous times. Posts in this thread were coming from all angles and in no relation to the OP.

I had posted about the OP's situation earlier in the thread but it seems he has made up his mind. He hasn't replied to anyone's good recommendations with any sense that he will think about things and he merely wants confirmation his plan his good. I think he could have 40 negative posts but if he gets 1 positive stating that cycle looks good he will have everything he wanted when starting this thread.

The guy is fat and wants to inject estrogen and is taking 3 GLP-1 agonists and posted tinfoil when asked about his nutrition plan so what can we actually do. Some guys are just destined to be a bit fat. It's frustrating to everyone reading because how wrong can you be especially when looking good on a beach is so simple to attain but some guys are their own worst enemy.

Got it. My bad for misinterpreting brother

 

[the_unit]

I've gotten where I can tolerate a high dose of GH just by suffering through the numb hands and wrist/hand pain and slowly tapering up. As I previously titrated up tren to 2 grams over 11 weeks with 150mg test a week I got up to 30iu HGH, my BP was so jacked that I took a double dose of atenolol to keep bp and rhr down, but beta blockers, at least atenolol are pretty liver toxic and smash IGF-1, I believe that's why when I dropped the tren at 11 weeks and switch to 2625mg Test I was able to stay running 20 to 30iu GH for the next 4 months, then I dropped test to 150mg and GH to 5iu's, that total run was 7.5 months, I tapered off the atenolol over the next few weeks and my IGF-1 started rising, then all of the sudden I started getting massive sides and could only tolerate 2iu GH, I've slowly risen back up to 15iu over the last 8 months, I've even taken 30iu for a few days a couple of times in the last couple of weeks during periods where I don't have to work as much and my hands can tolerate it. I ran my estrogen at 100 to 110 for the duration and I think it's where I feel best, horny af, with low estrogen or even in range my sex drive is significantly less

Where did you come up with this? Atenolol is one of few beta-blockers devoid of liver metabolism...

 

[TakeMore191AA]

I’m going to summarize this thread and what every seasoned member here is trying to tell you- those of us who look and live the part.

You are pushing the extremes too far. And that says a lot coming from me (hence my username).

Your problems aren’t coming from your cycles, they’re coming from you pushing your cycles TOO FAR. You do not need that much gear at your size.

You can grow on low test and higher mast/primo. You can grow on higher test and moderate primo/mast. What matters is total MG volume. But your receptors can only handle and convert so much.

I’m a middle of the road guy as I get sides from Test at 1500mg and over. So it’s been a while since I have gone over 1250mg. I make up for the other MG volume using EQ. It’s simple at the day. Don’t take more than you need.

When you’re getting sides from your cycles beyond control that’s when you’ve taken them too far. If you have to inject estrogen, you’ve taken it WAY too far. If you’re maxed out on beta blockers and BP meds- too far.

We are all saying the same thing in different ways. Build your cycle base and put all your focus into your diet and training. Discipline over time is the only secret to this sport. Abusing PED’s and GLP’s will tank your long term progress every time.

I agree with almost all of it, but if I were to run low test high primo of need estrogen from.somewhere, also I'm not getting sides from 500mg test and 2 grams mast, I feel nothing really, except I found out that mast makes me a tiny bit aggro, kinda like tren but without the hot feeling that I can get with anger on tren