Expert Warns Against 5 FDA-Approved Drugs

smallsparrow · Nov 19, 2004

Here are the drugs that the US government should be banning......look at some of the negative side effects that these drugs cause!!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041119/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/vioxx_safety

I would take the sides that aas gives me any day over these LEGAL drugs..........Makes me pissed off that the drug companies can dictate what we can or can't use legally........no doubt it's all based on which drugs can make them the most money

tbonus · Nov 19, 2004

My wife lost her mother a year ago and she was on so much shit. Vioxx was one of her meds and she did suffer a stroke. Might have played a role in it. I took it for awhile for my shoulder. SO if I stroke out in the future is it the vioxx?

galaxy · Nov 19, 2004

Im on crestor, so thats good to know. Have to look to see what the other two alternatives are.

leapfrog · Nov 19, 2004

FDA?????

guess what the 4th leading cause of death in the us is??adverse reation to FDA approved drugs.source(JAMA).
HELL,more people die from tylenol in a year than all street drugs combined!!

leap

Armageddon · Nov 19, 2004

Alternative medicine is just too expensive, but it's the way to go. I try not and take any meds. I think they do more harm than good. Doctors are pill pushers and that's that. We watched this video in anatomy class that talked about histories of medicine and technologies, microscopes mostly. There was this thing about this researcher that used high pitched sounds and vibrations to combat diseases and what not. It was successful but not as easy as just popping a pill. This was right around the time of when antibitics and penicilin where getting ready to explode. So it got pushed behind and all this mans work was basicall for nothing and almosted destoyed. It seems like it would be soo much more healthy that always popping a pill or something. Take two of these and call me in the morning is the biggest joke I've ever heard.

FRKNHUGE · Nov 19, 2004

Take two of these and call me in the morning is the biggest joke I've ever heard.

my doctor told me to do this with anadrol and look what happened, hehehe
frk

Coopie · Nov 19, 2004

The Pharmaceutical Industry and the American Medical Association both maintain very powerful lobby lobbyists. I can assert for a fact that one DC-based law firm is on retainer for over $1 million annually to the AMA.

Additionally, they throw tons of cash at elected officials on both the state and federal level to ensure legislation gets passed that will help them and legislation that may be harmful to them is squashed.

The government has become an extension of a few corporate interests. Don't fool yourself. If the Sports Supplement Industry had this kind of capital and this kind of influence, Ephedra would still be on store shelves.

Here's a litle known fact: A drug company can bypass some stages of the FDA approval process if they do two things;
1. Petition for the waiver of trial testing, and;
2. Pay an upfront cost for the expense of completing the drug trials at a later date.

The first component is to mask what the second component really is: a pay-off to the government to look the other way when a drug company knows that the drug trials will not be favorable, ex. too many side effects, etc.

How do you think Vioxx and Phen-Fen went from research and development to FDA approval status in break-neck time. Clinical trials? Human trials? Nah - cough up $400 K and your free to market the drug.

More money for re-election campaigns!

Sad...

leapfrog · Nov 20, 2004

Armageddon said:
Alternative medicine is just too expensive, but it's the way to go. I try not and take any meds. I think they do more harm than good. Doctors are pill pushers and that's that. We watched this video in anatomy class that talked about histories of medicine and technologies, microscopes mostly. There was this thing about this researcher that used high pitched sounds and vibrations to combat diseases and what not. It was successful but not as easy as just popping a pill. This was right around the time of when antibitics and penicilin where getting ready to explode. So it got pushed behind and all this mans work was basicall for nothing and almosted destoyed. It seems like it would be soo much more healthy that always popping a pill or something. Take two of these and call me in the morning is the biggest joke I've ever heard.

the man your talking about was MR.RIFFE.his work was confiscated and destroyed by the gov't.his family just won a court battle to get what remained of his work.it took them over 30 years,but all them frequencies he had written down were destroyed.there are some people who have figured out some,but not all of the frequencies.gotta love our gov't,god forbid someone come up with a way to help cure diseases.just to let you know there have been at least 20 people who have come up with cures for diseases and the gov't has either put them in jail or they have disapeared.

leap

MiniYates · Nov 20, 2004

I got 5 diffrent meds after my last surgery, which was in april this year. One of those were Vioxx and I still got the full package left since I never needed it.

mike ross · Nov 20, 2004

i work in medicine and let me be the first to agree with coopie. the cancer drugs we are using of late are not working worth a shit and if you want to see another drug scandal, read up on the chemo drug IRESSA....what a piece of shit drug it is and its marketed like its a cure all for lung cancer...countless overseas studies have proved its killing me people than curing....same bullshit with pegasys...basically no one knew about vioxx until the studies were redone. thats no ones fault. however, crestor is a big waste of a drug AND THE DRUG COMPANY KNOWS IT. there were studies as old as 6 months now, that proved that it has a significant impact on normal healthy individuals other than there cholesterolemia...

tired of typing, i could talk for hours on this...but lets ban AAS, because lord forbid someone get roid rage, and go to jail. thats way worse than killing otherwise healthy humans

mike ross · Nov 20, 2004

just read the actual article and boy is the fda full of shit....i would remove half the drugs in our pharmacy on the following principals

1. bullshit marketing hype and 7 other drugs due the exact same thing and are cheaper/safer

2. the drug is an isomer of a previous drug and doesnt work any better than the previous drug...aka, nexium, celexa, cymbalta

3. extended release drugs are for lazy people who are troubled to take a pill 2 times per day...like you dont have 5 seconds in a day.

4. some are just plain garbage

but its not only the fda and drug companies fault, doctors are to blame to because most use drugs for things they arent approved for. neurontin is a classic example...off-labeled use of some drugs is out of control

Coopie · Nov 22, 2004

Mike Ross - You hit the nail on the head my friend!

The cancer drugs are the worst offenders in terms of "working" the system. FDA currently has over 1,000 cancer drugs in their "review pipeline". However we see about 2 drugs per month that bypass the entire review pipeline process and gain accpetance with little to no review other than what the sponsoring company suppies to the FDA - along with their paycheck.

It is disgusting and I am certain this process and the game of political nepotism has cost lives - and does so on a daily basis.

I will not go into details, but suffice it so say I lost a very young family member do to a drug that should never have been approved for use. This "wonder drug" did nothing but rob the life from this person and as a result of a class-action suit, the drug is not longer sold. It is shameful that it takes a multi-million class action lawsuit to stop a drug company from selling a dangerous medication.

Seven thousand deaths from this drug and the company was still prividing trips to doctors who prescribed the drug. Can you tell I'm a little pissed here?

PharmD27 · Nov 28, 2004

leapfrog said:
guess what the 4th leading cause of death in the us is??adverse reation to FDA approved drugs.source(JAMA).
HELL,more people die from tylenol in a year than all street drugs combined!!

leap

These statements are a little misleading. Adverse drug reactions cost the US $8-10B per year. But this also includes medication errors in hospitals (giving to the wrong person, the wrong dose, for the wrong condition, etc.) as well as intentional/accidental poisonings, and people that take multiple drugs from multiple providers and pharmacies.

Also, tylenol's toxicity is overstated. About 400 people in the US will die from acetaminophen poisoning. Of those probably 75-95% are intentional/accidental ingestion. The rest are those in complicated medical states. Although the stated maximum is 4000mg/day. Most people would be fine if one day they just kicked back and chewed down 50 tablets DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME

I think more people will die in Chicago from coke in a couple months that that. I don't mean to criticize. I just like to get the facts out.

PharmD27 · Nov 28, 2004

mike ross said:
just read the actual article and boy is the fda full of shit....i would remove half the drugs in our pharmacy on the following principals

1. bullshit marketing hype and 7 other drugs due the exact same thing and are cheaper/safer

2. the drug is an isomer of a previous drug and doesnt work any better than the previous drug...aka, nexium, celexa, cymbalta

3. extended release drugs are for lazy people who are troubled to take a pill 2 times per day...like you dont have 5 seconds in a day.

4. some are just plain garbage

but its not only the fda and drug companies fault, doctors are to blame to because most use drugs for things they arent approved for. neurontin is a classic example...off-labeled use of some drugs is out of control

I totally agree with you. But our American consumerism is what's driving those 4 things you talk about. Drug companies can't make money on a drug that they can only sell to 5000 people. So, they do the me-too strategy.

Some extended release products are necessary due to side effects from the immediate release. However, a majority of drug companies new about the better quality of the extended release or "pure isomer"

As far as off-label usage, it's good in some instances when it's tried logically. But Neurontin is crazy how the drug reps basically tricked providers into using off-labeled usages as if they were really studied.

However, in hospitals we can't use drugs off-label even though logic and science dictates they would definitely work in the situation just because of a little FDA approval (which costs a lot of money).

So, I think our system is out of control because really the FDA has little control in all realty. When they try to exert it they often get sued. If they push a drug too fast, they get sued or get bad press. If they hold off on a cancer or HIV drug, they're also considered inept or racist or somthing completely different.
And also, yhe drug companies are always on a mad money chase, that our American attitude for the newest and more expensive thing is always better. I once heard a drug rep telling a medical resident: "Don't you think that you could sleep better giving your patient a Cadillac versus an old used Chevy with x drug?"
... No wonder we don't let drug reps in our hospital (but they come in anyway without invitation -- some of them so many times that we have to have them arrested for trespassing). But this attitude goes along with the people too.

You have to demand for you or your family members that they get the best medical care. Always ask if they're prescribing the $300 per month pill (versus the $9 per month pill) why they're doing it. If they say "this is the newest thing, it'll be best for you," then think about whether it is truly best for you or did they get to have a fancy five star dinner and a few golf games or vacations out of it. Or else, if they say, "I don't believe in generics", then you should get the hell out of there right away. They're definitley not serving your interests.

mike ross · Nov 28, 2004

the quote about hospitals is not entirely true. i work for one of the leading hospitals in florida and the docs will write for off-label use albeit they have to fill out some other paperwork first

PharmD27 · Nov 28, 2004

mike ross said:
the quote about hospitals is not entirely true. i work for one of the leading hospitals in florida and the docs will write for off-label use albeit they have to fill out some other paperwork first

That's good that they have to document it. I think that's a great system. It would help prevent medication errors if every Rx had to have the indication it was being used for. For example, Cerebyx for seizures versus Celebrex for pain. Similar dosages and doctors often confuse them.

leapfrog · Nov 29, 2004

pharmd27 it sounds like you work in the medical field,so i would expect you to defend it.the facts i quoted about tylenol came from medical documentation i obtained from a doctor i know.so the information came from the medical industry,they just don't like to release it.also they just finished a study showing that tylenol not only destroys your liver,but your kidneys too.one last note my niece had a friend who died after taking 2 tylenol before bed after a night of drinking(it shut her liver down).she's one of the reasons they put the warning labels on headache remedies now.as for the 50 tablets i really don't think you would do that yourself.

the medical industry is a machine that is fed by greed,lies,and lack of knowledge.don't get me wrong there are some good people in the medical field who actually try to help people.the rest of the are worried about money and just write scripts according to which pharmaceutical rep takes care of the best.honestly what is the average time that you will actually see a doctor?they say 3 minutes,i say that's pushing it.my father had high blood pressure for over 20 yrs and went to countless doctors they could never tell him what the problem was,all they did was perscribe him thousands of dollars of drugs that didn't help.last year he went to the mayo clinic and they fixed his problem in 5 minutes.i could go on for hours and quote studies and facts for days but most believe what they want.

leap

Coopie · Nov 29, 2004

I've already made my point on this issue pretty clear, but LEAP, I agree with you my friend!

Our laws regarding all facets of medicine - from the doctor-patient relationship to the prescribing and dispensing of medications - are draconian by other western civilization standards.

We need to stop putting health care providers on a pedastel, and we need to provide the lay citizen with the resources necessary to make informed medical decisions on their own. Look at what us board members have been able to achieve with a little time and half a brain. We research and make informed decisions about our own bodies. Is the general population really incapable of doing the same? Do we need to cater to the lowest-common-denominator, and have the AMA and the FDA babysit us? Come on...

Time to grow up, stand up, and stop yielding to powerful bureaucracies. Do we need a governmental agency to tell us how to live?

PharmD27 · Nov 29, 2004

I'm not saying the system is perfect. In fact it's far from it. I'm not defenending most of what goes on.

Just another FYI:

I am sorry for your loss of your niece's friend, Leap. But factually speaking, unless your niece's friend was allergic to tylenol or some other part of it or more likel had taken another drug with it, it would not shut the liver down. I'm an ER/ICU/code pharmacist. I've sat through 33 tylenol overdoses. All 33 survived. All of our intoxications had levels consistent with taking at least 50-75 tylenol. 28 recovered in under 3 days. 4 recovered in 5 days. 1 had mild permanent liver impairment. Notice no deaths. Also, in patients with liver disease (especially cirrhosis), pain managmement of choice is tylenol. So, I used to have pain all the time when i was 15 to 16 and took 20-30 reg strength tylenol per day. No ill effects. Also, I have all the adverse drug reactions reported in hospitals that must report per standards to the Institute of Safe Medical Practices. Actually antifreeze killed more people last year than tylenol (10 times as many in fact).

But to my point, I struggled for 8 years with neuropathic pain. I was always told by mutliple doctors that there was "no reason" for my pain; that it was in places where there were "no joints or major tendons" so how could it hurt if "there's no inflammation or fractures"; that it was because i had "anxiety" and/or "depression" (that's actually true, I had anxiety and depression due to constant pain -- and none of the doctor's were willing to even treat my anxiety even though i never slept more than 2.5 hours in my first 3 years of college b/c as one doctor put it: "You're just stressed out like a lot of college kids -- plus you don't need sleep -- your 20 you should be partying all the time" (try to tell that to him if he had to remember Diels-Alder electron formations as well as Hobbes' "Leviathan" as a Chemistry and English major)). Finally, I ofund a nurse practitioner that finally said: "Let's start trying things and find something that works." And I feel so much better. Not 100%. So, if you don't think I understand: then you're wrong.

Why do I work as a pharmacist then? I try to prevent some of the errors and dispel some of the myths and occasionally tell a patient or a doctor that their prescription order is mental and that health care providers can do better. I think that people deserve better. Or else, I wouldn't be here.

On the other hand, consider this:

How many people are even a fraction as intelligent as the people on this board or even close to the intelligence and logic shown in this thread?
I'd like to think there's a lot. But there's not. The truth is that most people in the US can't read at a 7th grade level. I'm not putting the US down. I'm just stating the facts.
Before people can do these things that Coopie mentions, we need to get people to stay in school and teach them how to help themselves and raise our whole level of collective conscience. It'd be a lot eaasier if we didn't have racist, bigots, and Bible-toting anti-evolutionists stopping the progress of knowledge through hate and fear.
If we could get even 25% of the population to 25% of the level of cooperation, helping, brotherhood and love of life and learning like Coopie, Leap and all those on this thread and on this board have, this world would be a wondeful place.
Youre right: We don't need governments to tell us what to do and keep us sedated. We just need a little kick in the ass and get off in the right direction.
I don't know where I'm going with this all. It must be the pain meds talking. Thanks for having me! I'll be here all week. Try the chicken and tip your waitress well.