Explaining LBA ( FINAL VERSION)

[PHIL HERNON]

The LBAs are protein concentrates

derived from hydrolyzed collagen, with some being

combinations of collagen and another protein (eg,

casein). Eight of IAAs used in protein synthesis

are present in collagen; however, the IAA levels are

relatively low. Further, collagen is naturally devoid

of tryptophan, but adding tryptophan does little to add to the

quality of LBAs..although some companies sometimes supplement these

products with tryptophan or other amino

acids to improve the amino acid profile.

When LBAs is combined with casein or other complete proteins, the resulting

combination provides somewhat greater amounts of the IAAs.


However, because

collagen is composed of large amounts of DAAs that

either have a low molecular weight or contain

nitrogen (ie, arginine, glycine, proline, hydroxyproline,

and hydroxylysine), collagen does contain a high proportion of nitrogen on a gram-for-gram

basis. It is possible for someone to consume sufficient

quantities of each of the IAAs yet not be

consuming enough total nitrogen to achieve nitrogen

balance. Under these conditions, collagen may be a

good source of amino acids to meet the nonspecific

nitrogen requirement. There is also evidence that

glycine, proline, and arginine may become conditionally

indispensable under some physiologic conditions.The same goes for

gelatin ( NOT JELLO), which is produced by the

hydrolysis of collagen and so has approximately

the same IAA profile as collagen. So, use LBA, use other sources of

protein......and you cant beat it! Nitrogen retention is what we are after.......

here is your recipie!

 

[mule]

The LBAs are protein concentrates

derived from hydrolyzed collagen, with some being

combinations of collagen and another protein (eg,

casein). Eight of IAAs used in protein synthesis

are present in collagen; however, the IAA levels are

relatively low. Further, collagen is naturally devoid

of tryptophan, but adding tryptophan does little to add to the

quality of LBAs..although some companies sometimes supplement these

products with tryptophan or other amino

acids to improve the amino acid profile.

When LBAs is combined with casein or other complete proteins, the resulting

combination provides somewhat greater amounts of the IAAs.


However, because

collagen is composed of large amounts of DAAs that

either have a low molecular weight or contain

nitrogen (ie, arginine, glycine, proline, hydroxyproline,

and hydroxylysine), collagen does contain a high proportion of nitrogen on a gram-for-gram

basis. It is possible for someone to consume sufficient

quantities of each of the IAAs yet not be

consuming enough total nitrogen to achieve nitrogen

balance. Under these conditions, collagen may be a

good source of amino acids to meet the nonspecific

nitrogen requirement. There is also evidence that

glycine, proline, and arginine may become conditionally

indispensable under some physiologic conditions.The same goes for

gelatin ( NOT JELLO), which is produced by the

hydrolysis of collagen and so has approximately

the same IAA profile as collagen. So, use LBA, use other sources of

protein......and you cant beat it! Nitrogen retention is what we are after.......

here is your recipie!

steve reeves loved knox gelatin mixed with eggs. he used to say if you mix the gelatin with other proteins it was perfect. i guess he knew what he was talking about

 

[PHIL HERNON]

YES

steve reeves loved knox gelatin mixed with eggs. he used to say if you mix the gelatin with other proteins it was perfect. i guess he knew what he was talking about

WE USED GELATIN AS TEEN AGERS TO GET BIGGER.......KNOX GELATIN.......BUT THIS IS HYDROLYZED. ......FAR SUPERIOR. GOOD PONT

 

[jayuk]

Hmm guys Im missing something here

hydrolyzed collagen is actually a inferior protein source and will not get absorbed as fast due to its incomplete state.

So have I just got it wrong - LBAs are NOT hydrolyzed collagen ?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

YES

Hmm guys Im missing something here

hydrolyzed collagen is actually a inferior protein source and will not get absorbed as fast due to its incomplete state.

So have I just got it wrong - LBAs are NOT hydrolyzed collagen ?

YOU ARE MISSING A LOT......ITS AS IF YOU NEVER READ THE THREAD

 

[jayuk]

YOU ARE MISSING A LOT......ITS AS IF YOU NEVER READ THE THREAD

Ok fair point - so re-read - so its like you appreciate they are inferior but to get it back up and to also bump up IAA you mix it with casien?

Do you have any evidence to suggest they would be better than say a manipulated EAA blend? Only reason being is that the difference in gains has the potential of being minimal unless the difference is huge?

 

[rAJJIN]

Im Just glad this is the Final version
Ive never seen a supplement talked about so much here.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

NO....NOT INFERIOR

Ok fair point - so re-read - so its like you appreciate they are inferior but to get it back up and to also bump up IAA you mix it with casien?

Do you have any evidence to suggest they would be better than say a manipulated EAA blend? Only reason being is that the difference in gains has the potential of being minimal unless the difference is huge?

NOTHING ABOUT THESE IS INFERIOR WHEN IT COMES TO BUILDING MUSCLE........IN FACT THEY ARE SUPERIOR. PERSONALLY I CARE ABOUT NITROGEN RETENTION.....LBAs DO THAT ABOVE MOST......I CAN EAT TO GET MY IAAs.......I PRESCRIBE THESE IN BETWEEN MEALS TO KEEP NITROGEN RETENTION HIGH.....I HAVE ALSO USED THEM EXCLUSIVELY AS MANY DO AND MAKE GREAT MUSCULAR GAINS.....I AM JUST SAYING THAT EVERYONE NEEDS VARIOUS PROTEIN SOURCES TO GET ALL IAAs.

 

[jcwill]

great info i just hope people dont overread what you are saying, lbas are my replacement for whey, and lbas milk and EVOO are the best meal replacement in history

 

[PHIL HERNON]

YES

great info i just hope people dont overread what you are saying, lbas are my replacement for whey, and lbas milk and EVOO are the best meal replacement in history

I THINK THE MORE INTELLIGENT GUYS WILL UNDERSTAND THE GOAL HERE AND HOW BEST TO USE THIS KNOWLEDGE TO ATTAIN IT.....OTHERS WILL KEEP PLUGGING ALONG WONDERING WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG........I CANT SAVE THOSE GUYS

 

[Mr_Magoo]

Phil what do IAA's and DAA's stand for?, pretty damn sure i know what the AA stands for but the I and D confuse me

 

[nziegs]

indispensable amino acids and dispensable amino acids (or non-essential, as i always refer to them)
....indispensable would be like your bcaa's and you dispensable would be like your glutamines, arginine, glycine...those type of things

 

[jayuk]

NOTHING ABOUT THESE IS INFERIOR WHEN IT COMES TO BUILDING MUSCLE........IN FACT THEY ARE SUPERIOR. PERSONALLY I CARE ABOUT NITROGEN RETENTION.....LBAs DO THAT ABOVE MOST......I CAN EAT TO GET MY IAAs.......I PRESCRIBE THESE IN BETWEEN MEALS TO KEEP NITROGEN RETENTION HIGH.....I HAVE ALSO USED THEM EXCLUSIVELY AS MANY DO AND MAKE GREAT MUSCULAR GAINS.....I AM JUST SAYING THAT EVERYONE NEEDS VARIOUS PROTEIN SOURCES TO GET ALL IAAs.

Cool Beans - however few things [hope you dont mind this questioning - more about finding and learning than just saying stuff for sake of it]

- NR - You do realise there is a upper limit to Nitrogen Retention and so by increasing the balance - does not mean it will translate to "better" gains.

- Agree with the Multi-Protein recommendation and it's a no brainer

- Apprecaite that you have used them and see them - but in comparison Id be inclined to say that a specific EAA Powder blend would have the potential to give a better, if not more, pronounced effect on gains than these LBA's - more along the premise of the actual collagen aspect being a some what lesser quality protein [even if we appreciate the IAA as even with that the amino acids still need to be complete for optimal absorption / bioavailability]

No? Yes? Dont know?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

Yes, if you had a specific EAA powder blend it would have potential to have a more pronounced effect on gains. That being said, there are many out there already correct? Are gains more pronounced? Potential does not amount to much if it is not realized. LBAs are quick, easy, tasty, and made to take in between meals or with a meal.......how can you get any better than that? Use this for its strength....eat your meals, use your whey, casein.......LBAs are the relief pitcher of bodybuilding.....they " close" the deal.....you want muscular gains and assurance of being in nitrogen balance then use the LBAs between each meal with a glass of water. They supply you with aminos that you would not have available otherwise.

 

[HeavyHands]

Great information on the LBAs but I'm really wondering when people will stop questioning ya, Phil!

That being said, I think he has given more than enough really great info on not only their make-up, but also their suggested use. I think people either over-think them or expect them to replace any source of protein they need... Clearly, as Phil has said time and time again, this does NOT seem to be the case.

To me these things are damn tasty and they do nothing but good for me. What more could ya ask for?!

 

[marilyn]

OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!!!

Okay..... I have to do say this......TAKE LBA'S OR DON'T!!.... IT IS YOUR CHOICE!!!!......MANY LOVE THIS STUFF FOR WHAT IT DOES FOR THEM AND TASTE DAMN GOOD, AND IT'S CONVENIENT! There is so much info on this, and yet people that don't use it, question it....??????? Noone has a gun to anyone's head to use LBA's, or anything else.....either, you use and like it, or don't and stop.
I ,and others love it, and will continue to use it, simple...If I didn't I wouldn't, simple. Phil, you don't have to keep explaining this.....You have done an excellent job over and over again, talk to you soon.

 

[T TOTAL]

Phil, reps to you bud, This thread has no doubt answered both questions asked and those un asked and therefore allows us to make an informed decision on whther to use them or not. Like has already been said, youv'e covered points you didnt have to... I can't see what more needs to be asked regarding these now..

 

[Massive G]

Here's my take after a case and a half of LBA's from TP.

I think they will be an incredible tool for those dieting and those wanting to replace whole food somewhat with LBA's-helps with curbing the appetite and hydration.

Personally I didn't notice incredible gains off them because I routinely consume 5-700 grams of protein a day.
I took them in between meals and they worked great killing my hunger pangs. But after a certain point extra protein supplemental won't help in spectacular fashion.

I starve all the time no matter what I eat. So they helped a bit for me to maintain and gain-ESPECIALLY KILLING MY CRAVINGS FOR CARBS AND SWEETS AFTER AND IN BETWEEN MEALS.

I am trying to cut down some bfat over the holidays as I have almost a month off of work and plan on training 7 days a week 4 days per week and anabolic cardio on 3 days off from the weights-so I will employ them more this way-as I will be cutting carbs and be extremely hungry.


NOTHING replaces whole food IMO and I like to eat to much to drink my meals as I'd chew my hand off.

Lots of people are getting results so that says something about them...plus Ilike the fact that you can takethem anywhere and swig them-even though I got tired of people asking me "what are you drinking?"

 

[Mr_Magoo]

indispensable amino acids and dispensable amino acids (or non-essential, as i always refer to them)
....indispensable would be like your bcaa's and you dispensable would be like your glutamines, arginine, glycine...those type of things

thank you

 

[T TOTAL]

Here's my take after a case and a half of LBA's from TP.

I think they will be an incredible tool for those dieting and those wanting to replace whole food somewhat with LBA's-helps with curbing the appetite and hydration.

Personally I didn't notice incredible gains off them because I routinely consume 5-700 grams of protein a day.
I took them in between meals and they worked great killing my hunger pangs. But after a certain point extra protein supplemental won't help in spectacular fashion.

I starve all the time no matter what I eat. So they helped a bit for me to maintain and gain-ESPECIALLY KILLING MY CRAVINGS FOR CARBS AND SWEETS AFTER AND IN BETWEEN MEALS.


I am trying to cut down some bfat over the holidays as I have almost a month off of work and plan on training 7 days a week 4 days per week and anabolic cardio on 3 days off from the weights-so I will employ them more this way-as I will be cutting carbs and be extremely hungry.


NOTHING replaces whole food IMO and I like to eat to much to drink my meals as I'd chew my hand off.

Lots of people are getting results so that says something about them...plus Ilike the fact that you can takethem anywhere and swig them-even though I got tired of people asking me "what are you drinking?"

Crikey, wish i had that appetite...