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First cycle advice needed

FlT4ever

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Been training for over 15 years, I'm over 30, decent shape. I think I'm ready for something more. I want to do it right so I need advice. Goal is to look harder and stay lean. I'm thinking propionate 100 eod with anavar at ~60mg ed....for up to 10 weeks. What I'm not familiar with is what should be taken during to keep my natural hormones in balance...and the PCT. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

The Wolf

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Prop is for more advanced users imo, it would probably be better if you took cyp or enathate twice a week. 500mg pw.
 

tenny

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well.....your def. not going to have any natural hormone production
with 100mgs oed.....you could run some masteron with it though



as far as pct.....i just searched it......and 256 threads came up
in 3 seconds
 

FlT4ever

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I remember reading something about taking HCG during a cycle no matter what you were on, what's that about?
 

tkav1980

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I remember reading something about taking HCG during a cycle no matter what you were on, what's that about?
HCG, in the simplest terms acts like a nother hormone that signals the ol boys to keep working. keeps your production going even with the exogeneous test.
 

FlT4ever

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I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
There's a lot on the internet about it, this protocol is one of them. So if I can't put my hands on some HCG, would Arimidex do? BTW, I really appreciate your answers guys. :)

Thank you
 

tenny

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I remember reading something about taking HCG during a cycle no matter what you were on, what's that about?
hcg is way overrated
i think pct in general is overrated

i used it once and never again
it actually fucked me up

had glands swollen here and there
took awhile to get back to norm

endo said i was outta whack

the only reason i'm even responding here
is because you asked about pct
and have made your mind up with cycle
which is FINE....and the fact that your well
within the appropriate age and the cycle seems reasonable
 
Last edited:

wasp

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i also used hcg once and never again, yeah my boys were plump, but my bp was out of whack, dr at the time says sometimes it does more harm than good and didnt believe in it
 

PsyT

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you must keep e2 levels in check when using HCG. shooting that stuff causes huge spike in estrogen (which could account for loss of sex drive, moodiness, gyno, water retention, elevated BP, etc).

An AI is basically essential if you are shooting 500IU/week of HCG.

Recommend aromasin (exemestane) since it does not negatively affect lipids.
 

strako44

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Bro, that sounds reasonable and if you have never taken gear... and you are over the age of thirty, rethink. This is my honest opinion. Unless needed because of low test prod, just put yourself on a great diet and continue your path without the gear.
 

FlT4ever

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Actually my test is low, showed with a CBC I did a while back...a while back, makes me wonder now. But I did deal with it up until now. Lately, I can't fart without being scared of injuring myself. I know this cycle I'm planning is nothing much so I don't feel bad about it, just enough to be a little stronger and toughen up.
 

drob29

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Prop is for more advanced users imo, it would probably be better if you took cyp or enathate twice a week. 500mg pw.
This is bad advice. And I cant believe no one has chimed in saying so. Kilo Club member or not Wolf, its just way off base. I mean all we know is his age, how can you toss out a quick cycle like that without the following?

ht
wt
bf%
training split
diet
GOALS

what if hes 6 ft 3 170? or 5 ft 2 260 25%?

fit4ever please post up what I ask for above. Thanks
 

andy_27

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i used 100mg prop eod for 3 months and still kept the balls and no PCT except some tongkat ali and little clomid...
 

oldfella

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This is bad advice. And I cant believe no one has chimed in saying so. Kilo Club member or not Wolf, its just way off base. I mean all we know is his age, how can you toss out a quick cycle like that without the following?

ht
wt
bf%
training split
diet
GOALS

what if hes 6 ft 3 170? or 5 ft 2 260 25%?

fit4ever please post up what I ask for above. Thanks
I have to go with DROB here. Test is test guys, you choose the ester. Prop is no more or less advanced than any other test. You just have to put up with ed or eod pins that's all. Prop is actually a good ester of test to use, the pinnings are the bad part. Yes stats would be a good place to start!!

EDIT........it is easier to get 500 600 mg/wk with prop because you do not need to inject 2-4 mls of oil into the muscle. Just rotate sites as you go and 1 ml here and there works wonders. Just keep an eye on the scar tissue and get some massage once in a while to break it up, or use a foam roller!!
 
Last edited:

BigEnough

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1,291
This is bad advice. And I cant believe no one has chimed in saying so. Kilo Club member or not Wolf, its just way off base. I mean all we know is his age, how can you toss out a quick cycle like that without the following?

ht
wt
bf%
training split
diet
GOALS

what if hes 6 ft 3 170? or 5 ft 2 260 25%?

fit4ever please post up what I ask for above. Thanks
huh? How do you figure? Did you not see the guy said he's been training for 15 yrs and is in good shape... Not that that matters any damn ways. That was good advice by Wolf. Simple test cycle.
 

Gestskypece

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drob29

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Feb 12, 2007
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huh? How do you figure? Did you not see the guy said he's been training for 15 yrs and is in good shape... Not that that matters any damn ways. That was good advice by Wolf. Simple test cycle.
It was bad advice, bordering on irresponsible. Without full stats INCLUDING GOALS there is no way qualified cycle advice can be given. Like I said what if he is 6 ft 3 170lbs? Or 5 ft 2 260lbs 30% bf? One persons opinion of being in good shape may not be equal to someone who is ready for a steroid cycle.
 

BigEnough

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Jul 30, 2007
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It was bad advice, bordering on irresponsible. Without full stats INCLUDING GOALS there is no way qualified cycle advice can be given. Like I said what if he is 6 ft 3 170lbs? Or 5 ft 2 260lbs 30% bf? One persons opinion of being in good shape may not be equal to someone who is ready for a steroid cycle.
gotcha
 
Last edited:

MADDmuscle

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Mar 4, 2010
Messages
282
30 is not actually a late starting age.. the prop might give him the boost he needs.. especially if his levels are a lil low. I strongly believe in prop for good solid muscle gains without the big water retention. Prop= Get strong and look good.
 

da0s44

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I'm 32 myself and been using gear for about 2 years. I'm about 6' and 195-198 lbs depending on the day. Bf is around 10% and normal test levels are low. I also have been training for many years and when I first started AAS my whole world changed. My first cycle was test cyp at 400mg a week along with 500iu of HCG every 5th and six day. Arimidex was used at 1 mg a day and my cycle length was 10 weeks. I gained a significant amount of weight. At the time I weighed about 170. Over the years I have started to stack different supplements but three things I always use in any cycle is HCG, Arimidex, and some type of test.

My advice is start off with a low dose test (400mg), preferrably cypionate, hcg at 500iu every Saturday and Sunday and take your Arimidex.

2 weeks after your last shot on week 12 start taking nolvadex at 40mg/day for 3 weeks the drop it to 20mg the fourth week. Keep your hcg at 1000 iu all four weeks during pct and your good.

If you want to run a low dose of anavar while bridging I don't see a problem with that. Say 20mg a day.

I'm sure others can critique but this is what works for me.
 

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