First Cycle, Gains Slow - Overtraining?

[triag2007]

Hey guys, Long time reader, first time poster. I thought it's about time to take advantage of such a wealth of knowledge and experience to help with my lagging gains. I've been working out off and on for about 3 year, seriously for about 18 months. I started my first cycle three weeks ago, and am up about 5 lbs, most of which I believe to be water weight. My main question is regarding my training split and if my gains are not forthcoming due to overtraining. I LOVE being in the gym, and have a very hard time taking a day off and feel lazy when I do. I also have a hard time wrapping my head around getting gains from working a body part. Anyways, enough of the boring reading part...

My split:

Monday - Chest

Flat Bench 5x8-12
Incline DB 4x8-10
Cable Flyes 3x12
Decline Bench 3x10
Skullcrushers 3x8-10
Rope Pushdowns 3x8-10

Tuesday - Back
BB Row - 4x8-12
Pulldown - 4x8-12
T-Bar Row - 4x8-12
Cable Row - 4x8-10
EZ Bar Curl - 3x10
One Arm Preacher Machine - 3x10

Wednesday - Legs
Squat - 5x12,10,8,8,6
Straight Leg Deadlift - 4x8-12
Leg Curl - 4x8-10
Leg Extension - 4x8-12
Leg Press - 3x8-10

Thursday - Triceps
DB Bench - 4x8-12
Incline BB - 4x8-12
Skullcrusher - 4x8-12
V-Bar Pushdown - 3x10-12
Overhead Tri Extension - 3x8-10
Dips - 3x8-10

Friday - Biceps
Deadlift - 4x8-10
One Arm DB Row - 4x8-10
Straight Bar Curl - 4x8-10
Preacher Curl super with One Arm Cable Curl - 3x8
Hammer Curl - 3x8-10

Saturday - Shoulders and Traps
BB Shoulder Press - 4x8-12
Lateral Raise - 3x8-12
DB Shoulder Press - 4x8-12
Front Raise - 3x8-10
Trap Raise - 3x8-10
Shrug - 4x8-10

I'm at the point where I love to work out, I love getting in the gym often, but want to see some serious gains on this cycle. Any tips would be great! Thanks in advance yall.

 

[LBJK88981]

Hey guys, Long time reader, first time poster. I thought it's about time to take advantage of such a wealth of knowledge and experience to help with my lagging gains. I've been working out off and on for about 3 year, seriously for about 18 months. I started my first cycle three weeks ago, and am up about 5 lbs, most of which I believe to be water weight. My main question is regarding my training split and if my gains are not forthcoming due to overtraining. I LOVE being in the gym, and have a very hard time taking a day off and feel lazy when I do. I also have a hard time wrapping my head around getting gains from working a body part. Anyways, enough of the boring reading part...

My split:

Monday - Chest

Flat Bench 5x8-12
Incline DB 4x8-10
Cable Flyes 3x12
Decline Bench 3x10
Skullcrushers 3x8-10
Rope Pushdowns 3x8-10

Tuesday - Back
BB Row - 4x8-12
Pulldown - 4x8-12
T-Bar Row - 4x8-12
Cable Row - 4x8-10
EZ Bar Curl - 3x10
One Arm Preacher Machine - 3x10

Wednesday - Legs
Squat - 5x12,10,8,8,6
Straight Leg Deadlift - 4x8-12
Leg Curl - 4x8-10
Leg Extension - 4x8-12
Leg Press - 3x8-10

Thursday - Triceps
DB Bench - 4x8-12
Incline BB - 4x8-12
Skullcrusher - 4x8-12
V-Bar Pushdown - 3x10-12
Overhead Tri Extension - 3x8-10
Dips - 3x8-10

Friday - Biceps
Deadlift - 4x8-10
One Arm DB Row - 4x8-10
Straight Bar Curl - 4x8-10
Preacher Curl super with One Arm Cable Curl - 3x8
Hammer Curl - 3x8-10

Saturday - Shoulders and Traps
BB Shoulder Press - 4x8-12
Lateral Raise - 3x8-12
DB Shoulder Press - 4x8-12
Front Raise - 3x8-10
Trap Raise - 3x8-10
Shrug - 4x8-10

I'm at the point where I love to work out, I love getting in the gym often, but want to see some serious gains on this cycle. Any tips would be great! Thanks in advance yall.

I can tell you right now that this is likely complete and total over-training. Since this is the case, I recommend you train HIT style for a while, see how you react. If you react very positively, then keep training like that (myself and almost all of my clients train with a modified HIT style). If you find that you would like to introduce a little more volume training, than you can do that after assessing your progress.

Choose 3-4 exercises for larger muscle groups (chest, back, Quads, shoulders) and perform 1 set per exercise with precision form, 3 seconds eccentric, 3 seconds concentric and 1-2 seconds static hold timing.

Choose 2-3 exercises for the smaller muscle groups (biceps, triceps, calves, hamstrings) and perform 1 set per exercise with the aforementioned form.

if you want more specific training help feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]

-Alex

 

[SmallTownIron]

I should also add to Alex's repsonse that your only on week 3, gain have yet to come for your first cycle. Trust me.

But you need to back off the gym time and take Alex's advice.

 

[Steve123]

Yeah, that is way too much volume. I really don't see the logic in it. If you're genuinely applying yourself in those earlier sets, you shouldn't have anything left for the later sets. 100% = 100% and you can't get blood from a stone.

I'm not aiming this at you so please don't take it personally. But, when I see guys in my gym hammering out these workouts with 5 sets of 6 different movements on a single body part, I'm invariably seeing someone who is not applying himself on every set.

 

[muscle_n_blood]

Are you eating enough? Very important.

 

[vlad878]

no such thing as overtraining just undereating

 

[whiteknucks]

cut your number of sets in half. eat, eat, eat and give it time .

 

[maldorf]

no such thing as overtraining just undereating

Uh, no thats wrong. Just plain wrong.

 

[Mr Anderson]

Probably alot to do with your diet and to much training. your body needs time to grow, if your punishing it 6 days a week it makes it to hard.

I train 5 on 2 off this seems to be ok for me atm.

 

[QVolt]

Big A's got a great article as a Sticky in the Beginner Forum, you should read that - Growth Principles for Beginners. I even looked it up and here's the link - http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/beginners-forum/8446-growth-principles-beginners.html

The other guys are right, it's overtraining! Recovery is a huge part of the whole picture. So is diet.

All the Best

 

[richiec]

Uh, no thats wrong. Just plain wrong.

Couldn't say it any better. No such thing as overtraining? If you push yourself hard in the first few sets like Steve123 said, you won't have enough in you for the rest. For example, I did shoulders/tris on Tuesday, after 2 excersizes of each, I could barely lift my arms parallel. Bust your ass on the sets, and you won't have any left to train with

 

[nickman1978]

Hey guys, Long time reader, first time poster. I thought it's about time to take advantage of such a wealth of knowledge and experience to help with my lagging gains. I've been working out off and on for about 3 year, seriously for about 18 months. I started my first cycle three weeks ago, and am up about 5 lbs, most of which I believe to be water weight. My main question is regarding my training split and if my gains are not forthcoming due to overtraining. I LOVE being in the gym, and have a very hard time taking a day off and feel lazy when I do. I also have a hard time wrapping my head around getting gains from working a body part. Anyways, enough of the boring reading part...

My split:

Monday - Chest

Flat Bench 5x8-12
Incline DB 4x8-10
Cable Flyes 3x12
Decline Bench 3x10
Skullcrushers 3x8-10
Rope Pushdowns 3x8-10

Tuesday - Back
BB Row - 4x8-12
Pulldown - 4x8-12
T-Bar Row - 4x8-12
Cable Row - 4x8-10
EZ Bar Curl - 3x10
One Arm Preacher Machine - 3x10

Wednesday - Legs
Squat - 5x12,10,8,8,6
Straight Leg Deadlift - 4x8-12
Leg Curl - 4x8-10
Leg Extension - 4x8-12
Leg Press - 3x8-10

Thursday - Triceps
DB Bench - 4x8-12
Incline BB - 4x8-12
Skullcrusher - 4x8-12
V-Bar Pushdown - 3x10-12
Overhead Tri Extension - 3x8-10
Dips - 3x8-10

Friday - Biceps
Deadlift - 4x8-10
One Arm DB Row - 4x8-10
Straight Bar Curl - 4x8-10
Preacher Curl super with One Arm Cable Curl - 3x8
Hammer Curl - 3x8-10

Saturday - Shoulders and Traps
BB Shoulder Press - 4x8-12
Lateral Raise - 3x8-12
DB Shoulder Press - 4x8-12
Front Raise - 3x8-10
Trap Raise - 3x8-10
Shrug - 4x8-10

I'm at the point where I love to work out, I love getting in the gym often, but want to see some serious gains on this cycle. Any tips would be great! Thanks in advance yall.

u can even keep ur workout almost the same as it is just take out your thursday and friday workouts. They are allready being done on your chest and back day basically ...


just a thoughty ,...

 

[triag2007]

Guys, thanks for the fast responses, but some questions have come to mind...

I can tell you right now that this is likely complete and total over-training. Since this is the case, I recommend you train HIT style for a while, see how you react. If you react very positively, then keep training like that (myself and almost all of my clients train with a modified HIT style). If you find that you would like to introduce a little more volume training, than you can do that after assessing your progress.

Choose 3-4 exercises for larger muscle groups (chest, back, Quads, shoulders) and perform 1 set per exercise with precision form, 3 seconds eccentric, 3 seconds concentric and 1-2 seconds static hold timing.

Choose 2-3 exercises for the smaller muscle groups (biceps, triceps, calves, hamstrings) and perform 1 set per exercise with the aforementioned form.

if you want more specific training help feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]

-Alex

Alex - Thanks for the advice. I've looked over the HIT style workouts, and if I'm reading correctly, I'd only be doing about 4 sets per workout. It may be that I'm just stuck in my stubborn traditional thinking, but is that really enough to wear out the muscle fibers to encourage hypertrophy? It seems as though this is more of a minimal approach than a mass building program.

Yeah, that is way too much volume. I really don't see the logic in it. If you're genuinely applying yourself in those earlier sets, you shouldn't have anything left for the later sets. 100% = 100% and you can't get blood from a stone.

I'm not aiming this at you so please don't take it personally. But, when I see guys in my gym hammering out these workouts with 5 sets of 6 different movements on a single body part, I'm invariably seeing someone who is not applying himself on every set.

Steve - I totally can see what you mean. While I love the feeling of having to dig deeper to push out the last few reps, it seems as though my last sets are too taxing, instead of the last few reps. It makes sense that the last reps are causing more damage and harm from the hard work put in before.

Are you eating enough? Very important.

cut your number of sets in half. eat, eat, eat and give it time .

Muscle_n_blood, whiteknucks - I'm eating about 3500 cals, trying to get about 300 g of protein through lean meats, and some tasty red meat.. but have the shakes too. While I'm trying to bulk up, is it worth trying to keep my carbs down in order for the weight to not have a huge impact on my waistline. I'm doing 2-3x cardio a week, and abs about the same, but can't seem to tighten up my midsection. I'm worried that with more calories (espically the carbs) that would turn into an even worse losing battle.

Big A's got a great article as a Sticky in the Beginner Forum, you should read that - Growth Principles for Beginners. I even looked it up and here's the link - http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/beginners-forum/8446-growth-principles-beginners.html

The other guys are right, it's overtraining! Recovery is a huge part of the whole picture. So is diet.

All the Best

QVolt - I took some time to read that article, but getting to the gym only three days a week is like blasphemy for me. I feel very lethargic when I don't and just love being there lifting weights. Is there a middle ground between a minimal three day workout and my overkill 6 day? I was thinking

Day 1 - Chest
Day 2 - Back
Day 3 - Legs and Abs
Day 4 - Rest
Day 5 - Arms
Day 6 - Shoulders and Traps
Day 7 - Rest

With all body parts getting three to four sets of good hard 100% reps.

Thanks again yall.

 

[Michaelthomasj]

cut your number of sets in half. eat, eat, eat and give it time .

x2 Make sure you are getting your eat on!

 

[maldorf]

x2 Make sure you are getting your eat on!

Eat too much and all you do is get fat. I think too many people turn to this as the answer when it might be something else.

 

[Nssca]

Maybe I just missed it...what/ how much are you taking for your "first Cycle"????

 

[Steak Helmet]

I didn't read everyones response, but I hope you are EATING!!!!!

eat...hey eat some more...oh by the way EAT!!!

 

[Michaelthomasj]

Eat too much and all you do is get fat. I think too many people turn to this as the answer when it might be something else.

Yes obviously over eating will get you fat, but when someone says they are training, taking shit and not making gains...9 times out of 10 its diet. particularly not eating enough.

 

[vlad878]

Uh, no thats wrong. Just plain wrong.

arnold and the oldschool bb's trained for 3-6hrs a day but with all the food/drugs they still kept getting bigger and recovering did they overtrain?



i think of overtraining as training too hard and not giving your body a proper amount of what it needs to recover 100%(food anabolics sleep)

 

[triag2007]

Cycle

Hey, I'm taking 500 of test-e split up twice through the week, and front loading with 300mg of D-bol.