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For Pure Mass

concreteguy

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Seams like forever:
Long Test / hgh & Insulin cycles have been the gold standard for building mass among the serious. Typically it would be two to three grams of long test, 10 to 15 ui hgh and X amount of short acting insulin. DO YOU THINK THINGS HAVE CHANGED?


The above question is based on the general assumption ALL other things are on point.
 

Mustang_18

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I think that's still the gold standard. Obviously everyone is different. I personally do better with moderate doses of multiple compounds (ex.... 750 Test 600 Deca fast acting oral) as high dose 1.5grams+ makes me feel like complete shit. However I still think the basics work best when trying to add quality size. If you can't grow on Test, Gh, Slin... something is very wrong lol

M18
 

Elvia1023

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Simple but effective. Many bodybuilders have grew huge on that cycle you posted. Times may have changed for some but not all. These days you have guys running high dosed tren when bulking and whatever other exotic compound they can find. There is no right way of doing things though and everyone is different. I personally believe in keeping things simple when bulking. I save the likes of tren for cutting only and usually one cycle per year. Although 100-200mg added to bulking cycle is a useful system as well.

That cycle would be perfect for many serious guys trying to be as big as possible. I wish I could run something like that but hgh even at low doses makes me the most unproductive person ever. I don't mean feel very tired either. Very tired would be fine and I could work with that. I get so tired I can barely even think properly on hgh. I also feel crap on high test even if estrogen and other hormones are controlled.

I will be getting as big as possible soon staying relatively lean and for me a more sensible cycle would be starting low and over months moving up in dose to a max of about 500mg test, 400mg deca and 700mg primo. I will also have dbol and adrol on hand. Still fairly simple but just using lower doses of 3 tried and tested injectables. 500mg test is fine for me and all I need to build muscle but obviously I will be pushing things so will add the others. Deca makes lifting heavy easier for me. The primo for the sense of well being, no side effects and some solid muscle gains over time.

Orals are there if I need them for plateaus but won't be dosed high. Dbol at 20-30mg for a boost. If I go higher on dbol I get daily nosebleeds even with good bp. Literally on 50mg within 2 days I get nosebleeds. Adrol I may dose higher but still sensible and nothing crazy.

One thing I will be doing this time is adding 2iu hgh twice daily and just seeing how long I can go and if my body adapts enough to allow me to get the benefits whilst not negatively effecting my work and day to day life. I think even low dosed hgh can make a good difference to an aas cycle. Slin I may do 10iu post workout but I am not too bothered as I know aas and food is enough for me to reach my goals.

I have changed my approach over the years as I started getting many more side effects from the same doses I used in the past. Now I want to feel good as I grow and stay relatively healthy with no blood markers out of range. That's why I also start much lower and build up doses over time so I get the most out of each stage of the cycle.

So that cycle you posted is great and should work for nearly everyone but over the years we all learn some things (especially dosed high) just don't work for us so we can to experiment and find what works for us.
 

Reload

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DO YOU THINK THINGS HAVE CHANGED?

No.
Access to a great coach and someone preparing your meals helps
as does not having to worry about $ so you can dedicate 100% of
your efforts to training/eating/sleeping...repeat.
 

Fit2Serve

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what about an anabolic

I agree that test is best. not much safer and more proven and more synergistic than test/gh/slin the "magic trio"
but
i wonder would u net same or better benefits if you added an anabolic like deca... i am thinkin overall more size gains BUT it may not be muscle gains... perhaps muscle gains be same but deca make u hold more water and increase bp so not really be beneficial... but logically you would think test/anabolic/gh/slin would be better then the trio.... but slin and test is anabolic as hell so maybe not... :confused:

i never really used anaobolics... just test/gh or mk/and slin for offseason. then contest i used tren.
-F2S
 

juggy38

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I think there would be benefits of adding a 19- nor as they seem to upregulate local IGF receptors. And deca helping collagen synthesis for older knees and elbows. But lots of test+ insulin for sure

I mean some will like 1.5g test+slin where others will like 750mg test+500mg deca.

I think the magic is just a shit ton of androgens (pick whatever you like)+insulin/GH+FOOD
 

Fit2Serve

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i cant seem to tolerate ANY compound prolactin related so deca, tren is OUT for me. they make me feel nucking futs even at SMALL doses. sooooo, i have just started my "ramp test until i feel crazy" cycle lol. will see how it goes. i am starting log soon.
-F2S
 

getbiggest

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Currently doing high test ,high hgh and a tiny bit of t3. Has been pretty damn good.
 

Elvia1023

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i cant seem to tolerate ANY compound prolactin related so deca, tren is OUT for me. they make me feel nucking futs even at SMALL doses. sooooo, i have just started my "ramp test until i feel crazy" cycle lol. will see how it goes. i am starting log soon.
-F2S

I was tempted to do the same. I thought about trying different test esters. I have done sustanon and omnadrens etc but more on the lines of starting at 300mg total and just up until I start feeling crap. Something like 100mg test c, test e and test p per day at a max dose would be different. But I decided upon the more sensible approach for me of test, deca and primo. I know how I respond to both approches. Trying the same thing again and again expecting different results is silly but I am sure we have all done that. As long as I have a decent base of hormones (500mg test for example) I can grow just fine. It's the food and improving the digestion and utilization of that food that makes the difference.
 

thethinker48

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I'll just add to start low, and build up to find your ceiling.

Like muscle growth, there is also a ceiling for drugs that's very individual. One guy could feel like Forest Gump on 2 grams of testosterone and 10 ius of GH and another could feel like Mr. Burns on half that.

Taking more won't accelerate muscle growth (especially if you're a non-hyper responder, and know how protein turnover works). You'll just do more damage, and have more side effects.

It irks me now when guys I know (usually my age crowd...selfies and gymshark shirts :) ) come up, and show me some post about a heavy drug cycle on social media, and get giddy about how much somebody is taking. At 6 ft 190 you aren't utilizing half that, only getting the side effects from it, this is the negative aspect of social media. The guy that's 5'9 270 that's put in many many years building up to that dose (or hell blasted it from the get go, and incurred more damage than was necessary) requires that in order to grow (and not at the happiness of his body)...

I guess for most of us, once we've done this for a little, we really don't want to feel like shit

But idk, I'm not that big :)...I'll stop mumbling now
 
Last edited:

concreteguy

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I'm currently on 500test/500deca/ 1000Primo very happy camper. I will run this for 8 weeks and then replace the primo with 500DHB<---(home brew) for the next 8 weeks. I have no plans of stopping this for quit a while. The test and deca will remain unchanged for a very long time.

I'm also considering running 30 to 50mcg of LR3 for at least 4 months.

Currently waiting on my 157 to show up for my knees.


I was speculating that the Test/hgh/slin may be healthier? LOL If there could be such a thing. Reason being our bodies already produce these things. But that's just "bro science" at work.
 

tjitsu

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We need an Elvia log :)


Simple but effective. Many bodybuilders have grew huge on that cycle you posted. Times may have changed for some but not all. These days you have guys running high dosed tren when bulking and whatever other exotic compound they can find. There is no right way of doing things though and everyone is different. I personally believe in keeping things simple when bulking. I save the likes of tren for cutting only and usually one cycle per year. Although 100-200mg added to bulking cycle is a useful system as well.

That cycle would be perfect for many serious guys trying to be as big as possible. I wish I could run something like that but hgh even at low doses makes me the most unproductive person ever. I don't mean feel very tired either. Very tired would be fine and I could work with that. I get so tired I can barely even think properly on hgh. I also feel crap on high test even if estrogen and other hormones are controlled.

I will be getting as big as possible soon staying relatively lean and for me a more sensible cycle would be starting low and over months moving up in dose to a max of about 500mg test, 400mg deca and 700mg primo. I will also have dbol and adrol on hand. Still fairly simple but just using lower doses of 3 tried and tested injectables. 500mg test is fine for me and all I need to build muscle but obviously I will be pushing things so will add the others. Deca makes lifting heavy easier for me. The primo for the sense of well being, no side effects and some solid muscle gains over time.

Orals are there if I need them for plateaus but won't be dosed high. Dbol at 20-30mg for a boost. If I go higher on dbol I get daily nosebleeds even with good bp. Literally on 50mg within 2 days I get nosebleeds. Adrol I may dose higher but still sensible and nothing crazy.

One thing I will be doing this time is adding 2iu hgh twice daily and just seeing how long I can go and if my body adapts enough to allow me to get the benefits whilst not negatively effecting my work and day to day life. I think even low dosed hgh can make a good difference to an aas cycle. Slin I may do 10iu post workout but I am not too bothered as I know aas and food is enough for me to reach my goals.

I have changed my approach over the years as I started getting many more side effects from the same doses I used in the past. Now I want to feel good as I grow and stay relatively healthy with no blood markers out of range. That's why I also start much lower and build up doses over time so I get the most out of each stage of the cycle.

So that cycle you posted is great and should work for nearly everyone but over the years we all learn some things (especially dosed high) just don't work for us so we can to experiment and find what works for us.
 

beastmode121

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never tried insulin. GH only pre contest

I made improvements on moderate doses , mostly tren E.. Deca and EQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Big Dave Smith

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I grew mostly on gear. The final 5-8lbs, I used low dose GH (when I could afford it). I’ve played with insulin, and it was certainly a game changer, but by the time I tried it, I was one step out.

What I know is...

Gear got my size.
Gear + GH was better.
Gear + GH + insulin would have been crazy.

I sit at 260 on TRT right now without trying.

If I brought total mg’s up to 1200-1500mg, and increased calories + training, I’d be 275-280.

If I used that same total mg + 4-5iu pharma (or 6-10iu good generic) + humalog, I’d very easily be over 300lbs.

Maybe it’s genetics, maybe the approach is wrong, but I can’t fathom who can’t get enormous on the trio.
 
Last edited:

hilly2008

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I grew mostly on gear. The final 5-8lbs, I used low dose GH (when I could afford it). I’ve played with insulin, and it was certainly a game changer, but by the time I tried it, I was one step out.

What I know is...

Gear got my size.
Gear + GH was better.
Gear + GH + insulin would have been crazy.

I sit at 260 on TRT right now without trying.

If I brought total mg’s up to 1200-1500mg, and increased calories + training, I’d be 275-280.

If I used that same total mg + 4-5iu pharma (or 6-10iu good generic) + humalog, I’d very easily be over 300lbs.

Maybe it’s genetics, maybe the approach is wrong, but I can’t fathom who can’t get enormous on the trio.


Hello bud. Quick ones


Did u run the gh daily bud ?

Do u prefer test only for growing if not what combo would you use for sheer size.

The little you played with insulin how did u find best way to use it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

suppdude

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Hello bud. Quick ones


Did u run the gh daily bud ?

Do u prefer test only for growing if not what combo would you use for sheer size.

The little you played with insulin how did u find best way to use it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

search for his thread on here and there is tons of information
 

tren_plz

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Its still the same. I think it just comes down to consistency over the years building up. Not many take off seasons as serious as contest preps. Realistically thats when you're going to improve/stay the same.

Having a coach/another set of eyes on you is irreplaceable imo. Not your douche friends in the corner, "Yeah bro, you look great". When in reality its time for you to do a mini recomp and re-sensitize.

Imo..insulin really comes down to genetics. It is 100% useful. Others can use much more and not put on fat (black people/elite genetics). Don't hate, its the truth.

If you're white, and im talking you easily put on fat between thanksgiving and christmas...id take it easy on the insulin.
 

Big Dave Smith

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Its still the same. I think it just comes down to consistency over the years building up. Not many take off seasons as serious as contest preps. Realistically thats when you're going to improve/stay the same.



Having a coach/another set of eyes on you is irreplaceable imo. Not your douche friends in the corner, "Yeah bro, you look great". When in reality its time for you to do a mini recomp and re-sensitize.



Imo..insulin really comes down to genetics. It is 100% useful. Others can use much more and not put on fat (black people/elite genetics). Don't hate, its the truth.



If you're white, and im talking you easily put on fat between thanksgiving and christmas...id take it easy on the insulin.



I agree and disagree.

If you’re monitored by a responsible coach, or you’re good at monitoring yourself, this doesn’t happen.

If you’re getting fat, you just haven’t tailored the macros properly. The first concept behind insulin is to make better use of the normal amounts of food you’re already eating. People make too large of a jump in carbs to “feed the insulin”, then blame their fat gain on the insulin. Fat can only accrue if calories are in a surplus.

The first half of my bodybuilding career, I was the fat offseason kid who couldn’t get lean. My metabolism isn’t very fast, so I get fat QUICKLY. As I got older, more responsible, less impulsive, more methodical, and a little smarter, now I’m the “lean off season guy”. I’ve never had issues with fat gain on insulin, but had I used it at 23-24 years old, I’d have been a fat mess.

It’s not that people with slow metabolisms shouldn’t use it, they just need to pay closer attention than the genetically elite.
 

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