Game Changers Netflix movie

[Mr OZ]

I wonder how many sheep will join the eating disorder of vegan diets? Meat for me. I love my meat, dairy, gluten and feel amazing on all of it. Pork is my new favorite

I dont want to start an argument but I think your statement is stupid. I am vegan, I also used to love my meat, used to buy it and take photos and send to my mates and tell them about what I was going to BBQ that day. I then started to see what impact my choices had on animals and the environment, I could no longer consciously be responsible for the death of an animal that did not want to die, and could not fight back. What was even worse, I was actually paying someone to do something that I could never do - kill it for me (butcher/slaughter). I then saw the impact my food choices were having on the environment. I now have 2 kids so my 'care factor' for what happens on this earth goes far beyond my life time. The best thing I could do for myself, and them is to no longer eat animal products.

I dont want to get into a bullshit argument but perhaps seeing why people go vegan/plant based or whatever you want to call it may change your view of them and why they do it, instead of calling them sheep.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

I dont want to start an argument but I think your statement is stupid. I am vegan, I also used to love my meat, used to buy it and take photos and send to my mates and tell them about what I was going to BBQ that day. I then started to see what impact my choices had on animals and the environment, I could no longer consciously be responsible for the death of an animal that did not want to die, and could not fight back. What was even worse, I was actually paying someone to do something that I could never do - kill it for me (butcher/slaughter). I then saw the impact my food choices were having on the environment. I now have 2 kids so my 'care factor' for what happens on this earth goes far beyond my life time. The best thing I could do for myself, and them is to no longer eat animal products.

I dont want to get into a bullshit argument but perhaps seeing why people go vegan/plant based or whatever you want to call it may change your view of them and why they do it, instead of calling them sheep.

If you want to make a moral argument for veganism, then few people will have a problem with that. Making bogus claims about veganism being required for optimal health and performance is a different story.

 

[Mr OZ]

If you want to make a moral argument for veganism, then few people will have a problem with that. Making bogus claims about veganism being required for optimal health and performance is a different story.

it did my health the world of good (see previous post/page). There also seemed to be a chain of thought that everyone was going from a shit diet to a good diet, which was certainly not the case with me.

I will be honest, athletic performance was never the reason I went vegan, if it meant I could lift 5kg more - great, if it meant 5kg less - that was great too. I 'now' could never justify having fitness goals that meant there would be victims. My younger self thought nothing of it.

 

[qbkilla]

I dont want to start an argument but I think your statement is stupid. I am vegan, I also used to love my meat, used to buy it and take photos and send to my mates and tell them about what I was going to BBQ that day. I then started to see what impact my choices had on animals and the environment, I could no longer consciously be responsible for the death of an animal that did not want to die, and could not fight back. What was even worse, I was actually paying someone to do something that I could never do - kill it for me (butcher/slaughter). I then saw the impact my food choices were having on the environment. I now have 2 kids so my 'care factor' for what happens on this earth goes far beyond my life time. The best thing I could do for myself, and them is to no longer eat animal products.

I dont want to get into a bullshit argument but perhaps seeing why people go vegan/plant based or whatever you want to call it may change your view of them and why they do it, instead of calling them sheep.

I see your point on the animal cruelty, I feel anyone should like and enjoy animals and If someone doesn't like animals they have a serious problem. Its more about a couple things to me..

1. By you not eating meat, it is not actually saving any single animal, because so many others eat meat. So its more like your limiting yourself to be more moral, but your actions are not actually resulting in any change.

2. Many vegans I feel do it to be sanctamonious and to appear more moral to others or feel more moral and better about themselves. I don't think you do this but many others I feel do. And typically people who are sanctimonious are disliked by their peers.

As to the health benefits of eating no meat, there are pros and cons. But just like eating 8x8z of meat per day is extreme and not necessary, so is eliminating it from diets completely.

 

[Mr OZ]

I see your point on the animal cruelty, I feel anyone should like and enjoy animals and If someone doesn't like animals they have a serious problem. Its more about a couple things to me..

1. By you not eating meat, it is not actually saving any single animal, because so many others eat meat. So its more like your limiting yourself to be more moral, but your actions are not actually resulting in any change.

2. Many vegans I feel do it to be sanctamonious and to appear more moral to others or feel more moral and better about themselves. I don't think you do this but many others I feel do. And typically people who are sanctimonious are disliked by their peers.

As to the health benefits of eating no meat, there are pros and cons. But just like eating 8x8z of meat per day is extreme and not necessary, so is eliminating it from diets completely.

1) That does not makes sense. Simple supply and demand.

2) Sure no doubt. There are very few people who have lived there whole lives vegan, I once ate meat so it would be very hypocritical of me to talk down to someone who still ate meat that did not truly understand what impacts their diet has on the planet/animals etc.

3) im coming up 2 years vegan and so far blood tests have not showed me that I am doing this to the detriment of my health, quite the opposite.

Thanks for being civil in your reply.

 

[qbkilla]

1) That does not makes sense. Simple supply and demand.

2) Sure no doubt. There are very few people who have lived there whole lives vegan, I once ate meat so it would be very hypocritical of me to talk down to someone who still ate meat that did not truly understand what impacts their diet has on the planet/animals etc.

3) im coming up 2 years vegan and so far blood tests have not showed me that I am doing this to the detriment of my health, quite the opposite.

Thanks for being civil in your reply.

Same to you, it's a good debate.

For #3, how much meat per day were you eating before? My point would be, your bloodwork improved by reducing how much meat you ate, not because you eliminated it.

For example, say I eat 14oz per day of meat (I probably do). And assume my bloodwork is a little off. I could reduce my intake to 4oz per day, or 8 oz every other day, and bring it in range.

So there is no need to go vegan or eliminate meat, just reduce it because I was eating alot. Its almost like saying a guy overtrains bodly. He doesn't need to stop training to recover, he just needs to cut back on his training volume and he would be fine.

But by eliminating meat you did solve the problem, I just would argue it could be possible that you still eat meat just less than you were before.

Hope that made sense the way I described it, lol

 

[armada]

The problem with so many people is they start a plant based diet but/so start eating consistently and obviously loads of fruit and vegetables (greens). Then they seem amazed that their blood work improves and start telling people it is because they gave up meat. But if they ate the same thing with some meat in there it would be exactly the same.

Haven't seen the documentary, but that hasn't been my experience. So, it would not be the "exact same" for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

I am now vegan, prior to going vegan I was on a diet I got from a 'prep guy' on these forums you all know, probably one of the top 5 most popular. The meats he had me eat were - salmon, chicken breast and eye fillet. After dropping those meats and any other animal product in my diet my LDL dropped by 50%, blood pressure went from 120/80 to 116/66.

What was your FULL diet before? Maybe it was not just that you ate animal protein but that you ate very few vegetables, to many carbs (possibly high glycemic) :lightbulb: I say that based off you doing a standard "prep guy" diet. You pose same argument as stupid movie. Vegan vs meat based. Human are omnivore but most people don`t eat any vegetables or very little, yet eat them fresh and raw.

 

[Mr OZ]

What was your FULL diet before? Maybe it was not just that you ate animal protein but that you ate very few vegetables, to many carbs (possibly high glycemic) :lightbulb: I say that based off you doing a standard "prep guy" diet. You pose same argument as stupid movie. Vegan vs meat based. Human are omnivore but most people don`t eat any vegetables or very little, yet eat them fresh and raw.

Plenty of vege's and not much carbs, the only stupid thing is your assumptions. Try keep it civil.

meal 1 (breakfast) - 1/2 cup oats in water + protein shake

meal 2 - 6oz salmon with green beans

meal 3 - 8oz chicken breast with broccoli

meal 4 - protein shake (pre w/o)

meal 5 - 8oz chicken breast with rice & green vege's (training days), drop the rice on non training days (FYI I trained 3 x week)

meal 6 - protein shake.

 

[Mr OZ]

Same to you, it's a good debate.

For #3, how much meat per day were you eating before? My point would be, your bloodwork improved by reducing how much meat you ate, not because you eliminated it.

For example, say I eat 14oz per day of meat (I probably do). And assume my bloodwork is a little off. I could reduce my intake to 4oz per day, or 8 oz every other day, and bring it in range.

So there is no need to go vegan or eliminate meat, just reduce it because I was eating alot. Its almost like saying a guy overtrains bodly. He doesn't need to stop training to recover, he just needs to cut back on his training volume and he would be fine.

But by eliminating meat you did solve the problem, I just would argue it could be possible that you still eat meat just less than you were before.

Hope that made sense the way I described it, lol

that was my diet above, my diet now (if your interested) is:

meal 1 - 1/2 cup oats with water and protein (24gms)

meal 2 - mixed natural nuts (walnuts, almonds, macadamia etc) & a kiwi fruit

meal 3 - I make this mix of lentils, chickpeas, tomatoes, mushrooms, onions, capsicum, tomato paste - see pic below. Its a really nice meal. I make enough for 6 days and I will have that with some hummus and an avocado.

meal 4 - protein shake and apple

meal 5 - whatever wife makes, might be a vege stir fry or a mock meat with some rice and vege's

 

[Beti ona]

it did my health the world of good (see previous post/page). There also seemed to be a chain of thought that everyone was going from a shit diet to a good diet, which was certainly not the case with me.

If you are healthier with your vegetables, more power for you. But your case is not something significant, others are getting the same health eating meat, eggs, etc....

 

[Beti ona]

I dont want to start an argument but I think your statement is stupid. I am vegan, I also used to love my meat, used to buy it and take photos and send to my mates and tell them about what I was going to BBQ that day. I then started to see what impact my choices had on animals and the environment, I could no longer consciously be responsible for the death of an animal that did not want to die, and could not fight back. What was even worse, I was actually paying someone to do something that I could never do - kill it for me (butcher/slaughter). I then saw the impact my food choices were having on the environment. I now have 2 kids so my 'care factor' for what happens on this earth goes far beyond my life time. The best thing I could do for myself, and them is to no longer eat animal products.

I dont want to get into a bullshit argument but perhaps seeing why people go vegan/plant based or whatever you want to call it may change your view of them and why they do it, instead of calling them sheep.

Veganism is not going to save the planet as long as the traditional way of producing food is maintained.

Synthetic meat and hydroponic farms will do it. In addition to other technical and scientific improvements. It is also necessary to stop population growth and the society based on consumption.

By the way, Arnold, Cameron and the other investors in this campaign are interested in money, not in our planet.

 

[Mr OZ]

If you are healthier with your vegetables, more power for you. But your case is not something significant, others are getting the same health eating meat, eggs, etc....

Your forgetting the victims that come with those choices

 

[Mr OZ]

By the way, Arnold, Cameron and the other investors in this campaign are interested in money, not in our planet.

That’s your opinion, maybe they are but then again maybe they are not. As I mentioned before, becoming a father made me care about what happens on this planet long after I am gone. I am sure there is others our there that think the same way.

 

[Chipper Jones78]

That’s your opinion, maybe they are but then again maybe they are not. As I mentioned before, becoming a father made me care about what happens on this planet long after I am gone. I am sure there is others our there that think the same way.

That meal looks great btw.

You mentioned you have kids (I as well) I'm just curious, are you pressing your kids or advocating veganism to them?

Just curious.

 

[Elvia1023]

Haven't seen the documentary, but that hasn't been my experience. So, it would not be the "exact same" for everyone.

I started my post with "the problem with SO MANY people" so I wasn't talking about everyone. What I posted is true and I have even personally seen it with people I know and not just all over the internet. The same can be said for any changes in nutrition such as keto for example. The amount of people who think keto is the best diet to lose weight because they started it once and as a result started being more consistent and eating less calories. I am talking about the majority of people and not a bodybuilder who tracks everything he/she eats and is aware of micronutrients, energy balance and caloric breakup of the foods they eat amongst other things. There are never absolutes in bodybuilding or nutrition as we are all different. Although I can safely state for the majority of people what I posted is true.

There are so many variables to this from their diets before, the quantity of meat they ate before, the quality of meat they ate before, their diets afterwards (might have dropped other foods/drinks and not just meat), net energy balance, macros, drug intake etc etc. I am not for one second stating dropping meat for some people won't improve health markers. I also don't think meat is the evil inflammation carrying poisonous food many people portray it to be. Quite often with things the answer can be different for many but is usually somewhere in the middle.

 

[qbkilla]

Keto is another one I dont agree with. Extreme fad diets that have cult like followings that just defy common sense. I feel part of the mindset between these 2 diets is sort of a rebellion component. But bodybuilding is no different if were honest lol.

 

[Elvia1023]

Your forgetting the victims that come with those choices

If someone becomes vegan because they don't want animals suffering that is great and no one on here can debate that logic. To state it will happen anyway is ridiculous. Some guys on here actually enjoy killing animals so there is a whole spectrum of beliefs. I guess the word hypocrite could be used for many (myself included) because we hate animals suffering but we still eat meat. It is what it is. I am merely just commenting on the health and performance aspects of the different diets. I know a few guys who dropped meat and their blood markers improved but again there are 101 variables. I would never state either way is best because we are all different. I just think a lot of the information out there is skewed and many have an agenda or simply will do anything for people to believe their side of the argument. The end of this post doesn't pertain to you or anyone else in this thread.

 

[Elvia1023]

Keto is another one I dont agree with. Extreme fad diets that have cult like followings that just defy common sense. I feel part of the mindset between these 2 diets is sort of a rebellion component. But bodybuilding is no different if were honest lol.

I used keto as an example because I am sure everyone has seen it themselves. As you state it also has a cult like following on social media. The same can be said for vegans and meat eaters... people like to take ideas to the extreme. There are pages dedicated to each way of eating and how it is the best and healthiest way to eat. Some even go as far to say carbs/meat/dairy etc are essentially evil. Now for many they do better following x diet for whatever reason.

I would never state one way of eating was better than the rest as we are all made up differently (mainly mentally). Although for me it's all about balance (pro/carbs/fat). Lot's of fruit, veg, greens and good sources of fat with plenty of protein. A balance of macronutrients and that includes meat, rice, fruit, eggs, nuts and oils etc.

People can eat how they want and I wouldn't argue. However when strong claims are made how x is so bad for your health I will probably comment as I think it's not as simple as that. You can eat a healthy diet with meat or without it. The documentary itself is filled with nonsense and anyone who understands nutrition would see that straightaway. That's doesn't mean I am against veganism (I am all for it) but you should be honest with your audience.

 

[Beti ona]

Your forgetting the victims that come with those choices

Agriculture also causes thousands of deaths of small mammals and insects, to produce, you have to destroy a natural habitat.