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General kidney information

Gfr20

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Nov 25, 2021
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3
Long story ... Short version

My kidney function 3.5 years ago at emergency room was 5%. Creatinine levels off chart. Day after catherization, kidney function 15 percent
BPH was my problem. I am 69 today.
Wore urine bag for 10 months until laser prostate surgery in June 2019

Last blood test at VA Knoxville clinic April 2021
egfr 20

Have read "Kidney Disease Solution"

Looking for supplements to help improve.

I am pretty healthy looking, and am very fast walker. Used to be average runner, but started running in 1973 while in US Army.

Can walk at just over 12 minutes per mile. I am frustrated with legs always tired and not recovering from exercise.

Where do I go from here.

Thanks for any input
 

qbkilla

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Have you tried astralogus? On phone not sure if spelled it correct but many threads about it. I think the vitamin shoppe brand is recommended. Definitely keep blood pressure and glucose in range.
 

warlock

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Many have had great success with high dose astragalus. Like qbkilla said, vitamin shoppe brand is recommended. Other supplements to look into:

Pycogenol
Grape Seed Extract
Cordyceps Sinesis

Dante has talked about all of these supplements ad nauseam for kidney health.
 

warlock

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Board member Knight9 recently posted the following from Dante:

This is Dante's FB post from July of 2018 I believe. (Use Vitamin Shoppe brand)


From about 1990 to about 2009 I was known as one of the guys to go to ...to put put on size at the fastest rate possible. I stopped training people in 2009 and sadly Ive now become one of the guys to go to when bodybuilders mess up their health badly and they are at a dire decision making point in their lives. I dont mind helping people at all, not at all but ....and this is not embellishing at all...this is the straight out truth....in the last 3 years Ive come across about 22-27 bodybuilders asking for my advice because they are in kidney failure or fast approaching kidney failure.
This was kind of unheard of back in the 90's...I can remember hearing about 2-3 guys total that I heard about in the 90's (a high ranking NPC competitor from Indiana, and a few other high echelon guys and that was about it), it got more prevalent in the 2000's as the drug dosages (and diuretics) went up, and nowadays its becoming SADLY a regular occurrence (in the offseason). Im dumbfounded by the whole "out of sight out of mind" mentality of people in this sport who take their advice from people who espouse "dont worry nothing is going to happen to you, you can take all these grams of stuff and you will be perfectly fine".....Just in the last month there have been 3 guys Im trying to help out here with severe kidney problems and Im starting to get kind of pissed at the whole "dont worry you can abuse yourself and be perfectly fine" crew just as much as im getting pissed at guys who have abused themselves to the ninth degree and think there will be no consequences.

Some of these guys come to me and i have to be straight up honest with them and say "why werent you taking my advice when i was talking preventative methods for the last decade and a half online"? "Now you are presenting me with a problem that I cannot really get you out of, there is no miracle happening when your creatinine is 5 times plus over normal, and your GFR is below 20...its wishful thinking but im sorry the truth is you are going to go into dialysis and there is nothing i can recommend to you at this point that is going to prevent that.

I know alot of you guys who have asked for my advice, Ive given it to you on what i would do if i was you at this point....but do you know what you could do for me? Ill tell you. TELL YOUR STORY. TELL IT. Tell these guys in the sport the mistakes you made, how you got to this point, and where you are right now. Why? Because that story will stick with some (some not all) of these guys in the sport WAY BETTER than Dante Trudel's rant today about this problem that is becoming way too common now in today's sport. People are using 3x the weekly testosterone dosages that were being used in the 1990's, 3x the weekly dosages of tren and virtually everything else, 3-5x times the dosages of GH, its gotten ridiculous. The physique guys because they have to look rock hard year round for appearances are using orals and harsh androgens year round which again is exacerbating the above problem (nevermind 99% of you would faint at your lipid bloodwork if you actually got bloodwork smack dab in the middle of this harsh usage).

The science community and others used to worry greatly about liver problems in the sport back in the old days. Stick that in the garbage bin to be honest with you....dire liver problems are few and far between. Raised enzymes...so common its like clockwork and pretty easily fixed, but the truth of the matter is unless you are abusing high dosage orals for lengthy amounts of time (whereas adenomas are what needs to be worried about in that case) liver problems are minute in the sport.

I used to feel the main health problem bodybuilders needed to worry about due to their drug abuse was cardiomyopathy and atherosclerosis (especially cardiomyopathy). Seeing all the kidney problems there are that are happening left and right now has skewered my thinking and this is now tied or kidney problems rate an incredibly close second place. Ive said time and time again that any bodybuilder really pushing the ergo aids should be on curcumin, ubiquinol and arjuna to prevent cardiomyopathy. Those three compounds will put you in the best position to prevent heart enlargement and have been shown to remodel heart tissue. (I know ive not been talking about BP in this post but cmon if you reading this right now dont know the importance of getting that down and keeping that down thru supplements, BP meds, and exercise whathaveyou....then I probably had already lost you by the 2nd sentence of this post and you skipped to the next post on your timeline.)

I really hate writing on facebook because what i write ends up disappearing and cannot be referenced again (like it can on blogs or message boards)....but I was inclined to write this post because these constant PM's concerning NPC competitors and IFBB pros with kidney problems is really getting to me. I need to sit down and write a long post about preventative measures here (obviously acceptable BP ......thats been repeated ad nauseum), mainly about one compound that every single bodybuilder in this sport who is using ergo aids should be using.

Astragalus. I promise when i get the time i will write it all out but do me a favor and add that compound to your daily supplement stack as a favor for me ok. There is some benefit to be said in this area with grape seed extract and pycogenol but astragalus is virtually the only compound that research shows regeneration of kidneys and a raising of GFR (which is virtually nonexistant with any other compound or drug out there). Ive previously put up a wealth of information on Astragalus before on GU'd up newsgroup and people got hooked on one study that showed (going by memory here, id have to look it up again) someone who was in kidney failure that reversed that kidney failure totally by using 18-30 grams of astragalus a day. Leave it to bodybuilders to go to the extreme and deem something unworthy unless they use the exact dosage of someone that was in kidney failure. Are you in kidney failure right now? NO? Then why would you need to take 18-30 grams a day? Im talking a preventative maintenance dosage of 2 to 5 grams a day split in a morning and nite dosage. Thats pretty easy with 500mg capsules. Four caps morn and four caps nite give you 4 grams astragalus a day.

Your job as a bodybuilder isnt always about gaining muscle mass. You should put the same amount of thought process and effort in maintaining your health. So again ASTRAGALUS....take it, split dosages morning and nite. PS: I wanted to also go into telomerase production, DNA strands, Astragaloside IV, length and health of telomeres, anti cancer etc etc etc....but i thought man if you want to lose the crowd that will do it.....so I will leave you with this, besides the implications this compound has for kidney health, one search by you on astragalus and telomerase+anti aging+ longevity will shock you on what the science community is finding out about this ingredient and telomerase. The 23 and me crowd who gets geeked out on this topic....take a close look at Astragalus and telomeres in a search. The rest of you, bodybuilding brethren, it makes me feel awful getting these PM's, I dont want anyone to go thru dialysis if they can prevent it from happening, please look into adding Astragalus to your mix of things. (PS I dont sell astragalus or curcumin or arjuna....or 99% of the things I recommend strongly for bbers health....this is an Amazon buy for you)
 

Gfr20

New member
Newbies
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Messages
3
Board member Knight9 recently posted the following from Dante:

This is Dante's FB post from July of 2018 I believe. (Use Vitamin Shoppe brand)


From about 1990 to about 2009 I was known as one of the guys to go to ...to put put on size at the fastest rate possible. I stopped training people in 2009 and sadly Ive now become one of the guys to go to when bodybuilders mess up their health badly and they are at a dire decision making point in their lives. I dont mind helping people at all, not at all but ....and this is not embellishing at all...this is the straight out truth....in the last 3 years Ive come across about 22-27 bodybuilders asking for my advice because they are in kidney failure or fast approaching kidney failure.
This was kind of unheard of back in the 90's...I can remember hearing about 2-3 guys total that I heard about in the 90's (a high ranking NPC competitor from Indiana, and a few other high echelon guys and that was about it), it got more prevalent in the 2000's as the drug dosages (and diuretics) went up, and nowadays its becoming SADLY a regular occurrence (in the offseason). Im dumbfounded by the whole "out of sight out of mind" mentality of people in this sport who take their advice from people who espouse "dont worry nothing is going to happen to you, you can take all these grams of stuff and you will be perfectly fine".....Just in the last month there have been 3 guys Im trying to help out here with severe kidney problems and Im starting to get kind of pissed at the whole "dont worry you can abuse yourself and be perfectly fine" crew just as much as im getting pissed at guys who have abused themselves to the ninth degree and think there will be no consequences.

Some of these guys come to me and i have to be straight up honest with them and say "why werent you taking my advice when i was talking preventative methods for the last decade and a half online"? "Now you are presenting me with a problem that I cannot really get you out of, there is no miracle happening when your creatinine is 5 times plus over normal, and your GFR is below 20...its wishful thinking but im sorry the truth is you are going to go into dialysis and there is nothing i can recommend to you at this point that is going to prevent that.

I know alot of you guys who have asked for my advice, Ive given it to you on what i would do if i was you at this point....but do you know what you could do for me? Ill tell you. TELL YOUR STORY. TELL IT. Tell these guys in the sport the mistakes you made, how you got to this point, and where you are right now. Why? Because that story will stick with some (some not all) of these guys in the sport WAY BETTER than Dante Trudel's rant today about this problem that is becoming way too common now in today's sport. People are using 3x the weekly testosterone dosages that were being used in the 1990's, 3x the weekly dosages of tren and virtually everything else, 3-5x times the dosages of GH, its gotten ridiculous. The physique guys because they have to look rock hard year round for appearances are using orals and harsh androgens year round which again is exacerbating the above problem (nevermind 99% of you would faint at your lipid bloodwork if you actually got bloodwork smack dab in the middle of this harsh usage).

The science community and others used to worry greatly about liver problems in the sport back in the old days. Stick that in the garbage bin to be honest with you....dire liver problems are few and far between. Raised enzymes...so common its like clockwork and pretty easily fixed, but the truth of the matter is unless you are abusing high dosage orals for lengthy amounts of time (whereas adenomas are what needs to be worried about in that case) liver problems are minute in the sport.

I used to feel the main health problem bodybuilders needed to worry about due to their drug abuse was cardiomyopathy and atherosclerosis (especially cardiomyopathy). Seeing all the kidney problems there are that are happening left and right now has skewered my thinking and this is now tied or kidney problems rate an incredibly close second place. Ive said time and time again that any bodybuilder really pushing the ergo aids should be on curcumin, ubiquinol and arjuna to prevent cardiomyopathy. Those three compounds will put you in the best position to prevent heart enlargement and have been shown to remodel heart tissue. (I know ive not been talking about BP in this post but cmon if you reading this right now dont know the importance of getting that down and keeping that down thru supplements, BP meds, and exercise whathaveyou....then I probably had already lost you by the 2nd sentence of this post and you skipped to the next post on your timeline.)

I really hate writing on facebook because what i write ends up disappearing and cannot be referenced again (like it can on blogs or message boards)....but I was inclined to write this post because these constant PM's concerning NPC competitors and IFBB pros with kidney problems is really getting to me. I need to sit down and write a long post about preventative measures here (obviously acceptable BP ......thats been repeated ad nauseum), mainly about one compound that every single bodybuilder in this sport who is using ergo aids should be using.

Astragalus. I promise when i get the time i will write it all out but do me a favor and add that compound to your daily supplement stack as a favor for me ok. There is some benefit to be said in this area with grape seed extract and pycogenol but astragalus is virtually the only compound that research shows regeneration of kidneys and a raising of GFR (which is virtually nonexistant with any other compound or drug out there). Ive previously put up a wealth of information on Astragalus before on GU'd up newsgroup and people got hooked on one study that showed (going by memory here, id have to look it up again) someone who was in kidney failure that reversed that kidney failure totally by using 18-30 grams of astragalus a day. Leave it to bodybuilders to go to the extreme and deem something unworthy unless they use the exact dosage of someone that was in kidney failure. Are you in kidney failure right now? NO? Then why would you need to take 18-30 grams a day? Im talking a preventative maintenance dosage of 2 to 5 grams a day split in a morning and nite dosage. Thats pretty easy with 500mg capsules. Four caps morn and four caps nite give you 4 grams astragalus a day.

Your job as a bodybuilder isnt always about gaining muscle mass. You should put the same amount of thought process and effort in maintaining your health. So again ASTRAGALUS....take it, split dosages morning and nite. PS: I wanted to also go into telomerase production, DNA strands, Astragaloside IV, length and health of telomeres, anti cancer etc etc etc....but i thought man if you want to lose the crowd that will do it.....so I will leave you with this, besides the implications this compound has for kidney health, one search by you on astragalus and telomerase+anti aging+ longevity will shock you on what the science community is finding out about this ingredient and telomerase. The 23 and me crowd who gets geeked out on this topic....take a close look at Astragalus and telomeres in a search. The rest of you, bodybuilding brethren, it makes me feel awful getting these PM's, I dont want anyone to go thru dialysis if they can prevent it from happening, please look into adding Astragalus to your mix of things. (PS I dont sell astragalus or curcumin or arjuna....or 99% of the things I recommend strongly for bbers health....this is an Amazon buy for you)
Even though I am not a body builder i thank you very much for this post.
I did not realize that body builders had so many Kidney issues.
 

muscle96ss

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Long story ... Short version

My kidney function 3.5 years ago at emergency room was 5%. Creatinine levels off chart. Day after catherization, kidney function 15 percent
BPH was my problem. I am 69 today.
Wore urine bag for 10 months until laser prostate surgery in June 2019

Last blood test at VA Knoxville clinic April 2021
egfr 20

Have read "Kidney Disease Solution"

Looking for supplements to help improve.

I am pretty healthy looking, and am very fast walker. Used to be average runner, but started running in 1973 while in US Army.

Can walk at just over 12 minutes per mile. I am frustrated with legs always tired and not recovering from exercise.

Where do I go from here.

Thanks for any input

I don't know your full history but sounds to me like your prostate was enlarged enough that was causing urine to backflow into the kidney and therefore infecting the kidney. If a couple of years later, your GFR is now only 20, it sounds like it did significant damage to the kidney which cannot be reversed. The key now is to maintain as much kidney function as you can. This would entail things like staying hydrated at ALL times, keeping blood pressure in control, living a healthy lifestyle, and supplements like those recommended already. Best of luck!
 

Gfr20

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Nov 25, 2021
Messages
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I don't know your full history but sounds to me like your prostate was enlarged enough that was causing urine to backflow into the kidney and therefore infecting the kidney. If a couple of years later, your GFR is now only 20, it sounds like it did significant damage to the kidney which cannot be reversed. The key now is to maintain as much kidney function as you can. This would entail things like staying hydrated at ALL times, keeping blood pressure in control, living a healthy lifestyle, and supplements like those recommended already. Best of luck!
I was in Cape Town, South Africa when this occurred. I am an American from Taxachusetts originally, .... now in Tennessee.
The urologist thinks I had a full bladder for 6 months before the emergency room and catherization. And you are right, they say that caused the damage.
I screwed up by not seeking early treatment. I would piss when I slept, and this started happening 6 months or so before the emergency room. I am going to try astragalus, and some other things, like a raw food diet. I do exercise, but struggle with muscle recovery.
Anyway,. .....thank you for your reply john
 

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