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GH [email protected] Lost All Gains from It

omoplata

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OK Guys, just telling you what I have experienced, exactly as it happened.

I had been on and off GH here and there and did both Chinese crap as well as Pharmacy GH over the last decade.
Last 2 years I have been able to obtain Pfizer's Genotropin (I am in Europe and getting this through a family member who is in pharmaceuticals -pls don't ask for sources; cannot help with that). So I am 100% sure that what I used for the experiment below is the real deal.

Last 8 weeks I went from my 150 mg testosterone per week TRT cycle to 200 mg Test plus 250 Tren per week. That provided a nice boost in size and strength but I was already carrying a nice amount of mass for my frame and didn't really blow up -all good I wasn't looking to blow up or anything.

I get paid a bonus at work few months ago and decided to ask my connect if I can get 6 pens of Genotropin of 12 mg each -so 12 mgs equals 36 ius and I have 6 of those pens.
While continuing 200 Test plus 250 Tren I go on 4.5 iu of GH and liked it a lot. Felt fuller and strength was up a tiny bit. Then when I am down to 2.5 pens, I decided to try something: I went up to 6 ius a day and last 5 days I did 9 ius per day. So we are talking a total of like 10 days at these high doses. And holy [email protected] I blew up like its nobody's business. I had delts popping out for the first time ever in my 25 years of lifting. Without me saying a word about this all, wife goes "your shoulders look awesome". Then a buddy at the gym goes "what you doin for delts? you look wider". Strength was definitely up and yes all of this happened in 10 days.

Only side I had was waking up earlier than my alarm went off but that was a great thing because I was getting less sleep and still waking up very fresh -absolutely GH does deepen sleep. Plus some numbness in fingers -but let me tell you: the cheap underground GH did worse at 3 ius.

Here is the thing. I ran out of GH exactly 9 days ago and now I look the same as before. The few extra reps I was getting on my lifts are also gone. AAS cycle is exactly the same; diet and lifting are also exactly the same. WTF? Does GH just pump you up while you take it, with absolutely no lasting gains at all?

I was not expecting to keep all the gains, but hell yeah I was expecting to keep some....
 

TheOtherOne55

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Question—did you really think that during those 10 days of a high dose you had actually gained muscle??
You had 10 days of increased fullness and glycogen stores....from the GH. Of course the look goes away once you stop the compound. Think of it like an oral...you take superdrol and look awesome that first 15 days...you get off of it and boom, you lose that all-day pump you had. Think about this rationally dude...

Even with the use of AAS and GH, muscle mass takes time. The first couple weeks, when you have that crazy pump and fullness is JUST water and glycogen...you didn't actually gain that muscle in the first week or so. Thats the best way I can explain it.
 

Stewie

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Loss of expansion of extracellular volume. Common theme once you drop GH.
 

kingpeon

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This was a serious question?
 

pickapeck

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Well next time you get a bonus check stock up on pens and expect to lose some wow factor when it runs out. It's OK. We don't have to peak all year round year on year.
 

hawkmoon

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How would you grow any tissue in 10 days?
GH is not inherently magic, it only potentiates other drugs like AAS and Slin.

As @Stewie said, what you saw was essentially extra fluid in the muscle which is easily lost.
 

Fa Seeshus

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I blame this mental illness on all the media fluff reporting regarding marvel actor instant celebrity muscle transformations.

How can you lose something that you only had for 10 days? You never actually had it bro.
 

muscle96ss

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How would you grow any tissue in 10 days?
GH is not inherently magic, it only potentiates other drugs like AAS and Slin.

As @Stewie said, what you saw was essentially extra fluid in the muscle which is easily lost.

No way; you obviously haven't tried Cybergenics!:D(sorry, the younger folks might not get it)
 

prodaf

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Fat loss is fast with GH but takes time to make mucle gain.
 

Gunsmith

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This is like the coaches that advertise gaining 25 pounds of pure muscle when rebounding from a show.
It's not gains but super compensation for a short while
 

mytreefiddy

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omoplata

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Seriously???

I cannot tell if the question is serious but I will answer anyways
Absolutely yes
I was 230 at 13% bodyfat and my shoulders were not popping out. I have worked out together with competitive European guys and some of the real high caliber guys never have delts pop out.
Never saw them like that on myself really

Question—did you really think that during those 10 days of a high dose you had actually gained muscle??

I totally thought I gained muscle yes.
When I blast I do 20 day high dose runs and absolutely, definitely I gain muscle. I am sure because some of the mass stays long after the bloat is gone and I got body composition analyses runs.

I am not the only one gaining muscle in 3 weeks, I know guys who do these really short muscles. My training partner and I both do a very focused 20 day cycles and we both gain real muscle in 3 weeks. Is it 10 pounds of pure mass? No. But especially if you do a bodypart focus for 3 weeks, as I always do, absolutely you can bring up that bodypart to some extent.

So yeah, I thought the gain over those 10 days plus the preceedıng 10 days or so on GH was enough to put on some muscle, absolutely.
 

qbkilla

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I cannot tell if the question is serious but I will answer anyways
Absolutely yes
I was 230 at 13% bodyfat and my shoulders were not popping out. I have worked out together with competitive European guys and some of the real high caliber guys never have delts pop out.
Never saw them like that on myself really



I totally thought I gained muscle yes.
When I blast I do 20 day high dose runs and absolutely, definitely I gain muscle. I am sure because some of the mass stays long after the bloat is gone and I got body composition analyses runs.

I am not the only one gaining muscle in 3 weeks, I know guys who do these really short muscles. My training partner and I both do a very focused 20 day cycles and we both gain real muscle in 3 weeks. Is it 10 pounds of pure mass? No. But especially if you do a bodypart focus for 3 weeks, as I always do, absolutely you can bring up that bodypart to some extent.

So yeah, I thought the gain over those 10 days plus the preceedıng 10 days or so on GH was enough to put on some muscle, absolutely.

Can you talk a little more about this, dosages, long term planning? This is an interesting concept I honestly have never thought about (short super high dosage blast). Do you also Jack up calories?
 

TheOtherOne55

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Well then you probably should give some context to your post about how you only do short cycles.
Comparing a 20-day steroid cycle to 10 days of high dosed GH is very different too.
Either way, I don't think either will put any noticeable amount of muscle mass on. And most people will agree with me here. Maybe this opening experience will change the way you cycle.


I cannot tell if the question is serious but I will answer anyways
Absolutely yes
I was 230 at 13% bodyfat and my shoulders were not popping out. I have worked out together with competitive European guys and some of the real high caliber guys never have delts pop out.
Never saw them like that on myself really



I totally thought I gained muscle yes.
When I blast I do 20 day high dose runs and absolutely, definitely I gain muscle. I am sure because some of the mass stays long after the bloat is gone and I got body composition analyses runs.

I am not the only one gaining muscle in 3 weeks, I know guys who do these really short muscles. My training partner and I both do a very focused 20 day cycles and we both gain real muscle in 3 weeks. Is it 10 pounds of pure mass? No. But especially if you do a bodypart focus for 3 weeks, as I always do, absolutely you can bring up that bodypart to some extent.

So yeah, I thought the gain over those 10 days plus the preceedıng 10 days or so on GH was enough to put on some muscle, absolutely.

And QB, there literally was juuust a 10pg thread on here with everyone arguing with Taeian Clark about his short cycles. TONS of discussion and info on here.


Can you talk a little more about this, dosages, long term planning? This is an interesting concept I honestly have never thought about (short super high dosage blast). Do you also Jack up calories?
 

Bio

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I cannot tell if the question is serious but I will answer anyways
Absolutely yes
I was 230 at 13% bodyfat and my shoulders were not popping out. I have worked out together with competitive European guys and some of the real high caliber guys never have delts pop out.
Never saw them like that on myself really



I totally thought I gained muscle yes.
When I blast I do 20 day high dose runs and absolutely, definitely I gain muscle. I am sure because some of the mass stays long after the bloat is gone and I got body composition analyses runs.

I am not the only one gaining muscle in 3 weeks, I know guys who do these really short muscles. My training partner and I both do a very focused 20 day cycles and we both gain real muscle in 3 weeks. Is it 10 pounds of pure mass? No. But especially if you do a bodypart focus for 3 weeks, as I always do, absolutely you can bring up that bodypart to some extent.

So yeah, I thought the gain over those 10 days plus the preceedıng 10 days or so on GH was enough to put on some muscle, absolutely.

Are you doing short high dose cycles like Paul Borreson recommended?
 

Bio

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If you're not familiar with Paul Borresen he believed high dose short duration cycles were much less harmful than longer moderate or even low dose cycles. He's dead now soooooo...

Here is an excerpt from an article he wrote...

I propose 15 - 30 day cycles with doses 1,000 mg a day.

Understand this, a course of this magnitude will produce rapid tissue gain and contradict much of what you currently believe. The possibility of it will attacked by skinny old men an ex champions alike. I say this, unless you have tried it do not knock it.
You are not going to hurt yourself in 25 days. If you keep a watch for the danger signs such as rising blood pressure you can make appropriate adjustments as you go along. After such a stack I would have 15 days clear. The stack should be designed in such as way that the gear eliminates as the off period begins.
I would then do a consolidation programme low dose. Under 1 mg per kg bodyweight per day for 6 weeks. The cycle logic I proposed in my first book The Anabolic Edge. Then I would have a 30 day break.
I believe that breaks longer than 30 days are unproductive. However, not having the breaks at all is downright stupid.
In our new book The Stack Book (the alpha session) Bill and I have a 10 point countdown before starting any programme let alone a big one.
Preparation is everything. I imagine an airplane ready to take off. It starts up it engine, taxis out onto the run way and builds up speed. All the while the pilot initiates pre-flight checks. If anything is wrong the plane aborts.
Too often we rush into programmes without adequate preparation and the plan comes crashing down.
Health matters. Sick people cannot possibly grow. So, if you are going to seriously have a crack at one of my short duration high dose programmes do the preflight checks first.

PREFLIGHT CHECKS COUNTDOWN TO THE STACKS……………..

10.
Diet is good: lots of protein, balanced nutrition, not an entirely liquid diet. Any protein supplements, not whey alone, but blends of different isolates.
9.
Getting plenty of quality rest. A good 8 hours every night. If not, then this could be the first pharmaceutical step you should consider. Something to help you sleep. Once you go on a stack this will get even harder. Unless you sleep well, in which case leave well alone, augment your sleep with a safe option.
Absolutely never use GHB…This is no bodybuilding drug and has screwed up more people that Cannabis and Nubain put together. I despise all of these drugs. I was once addicted to nubain and it crept up on me and swallowed me whole for a while.
GHB does stimulate serotonin and this makes for a little GH production, but it stimulates considerably more cortisol and this makes for the big muscle shrink.
I prefer a simple benzodiazapene taken intermittently to avoid the possibility of dependence. Twice or three times a week when you really need it. Products of choice are -
Lorazepam 50mg aka Seresta, aka oxazepan.
Diazepam 10-15 mg.
Nitrazepam 50mg.
Tamazipam lingers the next day too much.
Another possibility is a good hypnotic which puts you to sleep but wears off once you are in deep sleep. These are non-addictive.
Zopiclone
Benzo's are the world's ultimate GH stimulators as well. You must be careful to not take them then go out. Be strict on yourself and have deliberate nights when you do and do not use them. I use them after back and legs.
Stay away from the latest Hypnoval craze, you lose time on this drug and do not use Nubain under any circumstances, it is insidious and horrible and has ruined more bodybuilders than I can remember.
8.
There is no point starting the stack if you cannot get to the gym over the next few weeks. Select a stack that is appropriate to your imminent lifestyle. Likewise, if you are injured or your wife is about to have a baby. Think before you launch before you press the fire button on the stack rocket. Are all systems go ?
7.
Health. Are you ill ? If so, is it something that will clear up with a good course of antibiotics ? Remember, a gear course will first drop your immune system, so if you are sick now you will be worse shortly after and this will crash the rocket.
Most infections can easily be killed off using a course of antibiotics. Indeed there is the high possibility that you are low grade. What do I mean by this ?
Low grade means that you carry a virus in your body at a level, which your immune system can control but it cannot put out the fire.
A good friend of mine called Mick had not gained for two years. He was unmotivated, having problems sleeping and feeling very low. I studied his blood test and I suspected that he was low grade, his thyroid was low to mid-normal and his globulin was elevated, a clear sign of someone fighting an infection.
Mick took Inosine Pranobex for 20 days, 4 tablets a day. He has gained over 40 LB in the year since and his life changed within a week for the better. He had been low grade.
Inosine Pranobex fortifies the immune system against viral infection and I use a course twice a year or if I am run down cannot shake off a virus.
For general bacterial infections antibiotics are a must.
My preferences are: Doxycyline, 100mg per day.
Otherwise amoxicillin 3 times, 500mg per day combined with tetracycline which kills one particular anaerobe that amoxicillin cannot get.
For abscesses, you cannot beat Augmentin, which is far superior to fluhroxicillin; the cheaper alternative.
6.
Finances: be sure that you can afford the stack you are about to undertake. There is no point over-stretching yourself and not having enough money to eat. I believe that the runway ahead should be clear from the start. I like to have everything I am going to need ready in my special cupboard at the start. This way you can always build little pyramids with the gearboxes and castles with the protein tubs.
5.
Remove All demotivators. There are things that will bring our rocket down onto the ground . For the most part these are optional wrong choices that we are making in our daily lives and these must be eliminated immediately if we are truly hardcore and really going for the finish line. Cannabis is one of the worst drugs for bodybuilding that I can think of. It is the single most potent demotivator. Do not tell me that it stimulates androgen production or that it chills you out. I have seen a cannabis addict tear up his floorboards looking for something he had hidden.
Cannabis produces oestrogen, fact of life. Cannabis negatively affects the part of the mind that motivates us into taking action. It makes you do nothing when you should do something. Its users are prone to mood swings, irrational behavior, temper tantrums and worst of all a higher chance of bacterial infections.
Nubain. Second worst on the list. This is an opiate and single handedly destroyed an enormous section of British bodybuilding. It creeps up slowly on the users until they get needle frenzy and all the other aspects of an addiction .
I personally needed a week in detox to get rid of this stuff. Which is the only time I have been in detox, but it shows the extent of the Nubain problem. I entered with innocence thinking all those years ago that it suppressed my cortisol levels. It took me in, chewed me up and spat me out and I was still kicking and screaming.
GHB. Of late many people are getting GHB addiction and they are harder to deal with than straight heroin addicts. The users cannot feel good, no matter what they do, because they cannot produce enough seretonin. It appears that the damage is permanent and the only possible way back once you are really hooked is methadone.
People started having little sips throughout the day, which makes them, feel positive and more confident. This is similar to a cocaine addiction in perception and considerably worse because there is a genuine physical dependence with GHB.
ALCOHOL….The most obvious demotivator. I am not against the odd drink, but if you are going on a course and taking the risks involved there is no place for drinking.
4.
Even the best-laid plans of men can go wrong. Commit yourself now to your plan and be prepared to make adjustments. Have definite goals for what you are about to do. You should know where you should be at any given time or date. If you fall behind you must know how the stack works and why it works and make the appropriate adjustment.
Chart your course, navigate the way ahead and you will be on course, stay on course and arrive at your destination.
3.
POSITIVE ATTITUDE…..Be wary of people that will try to throw your rocket off course. Often these will be those closest to you. I find it better to keep quiet about what I am doing until I have done it. Negative people and negative thoughts must be thrown overboard right now.
2.
SUPPORT SYSTEMS. I rely heavily on my family and they enable me to realize all that I achieve and succeed in. Even the writing of this book, right now my wife is keeping the children happy in the other room. This is a part of my support system. My friend Kevin is collecting me for training in an hour, My staff help take phone calls so that I can write the book. These support systems are vital and you need to know and plan to make sure they are all "on-line".
1.
If everything goes wrong be prepared to make a conscious decision to abort early. If you fall ill or your dog gets sick and you cannot leave his side, then stop immediately regroup and start again later. The decision to abort should be made earlier rather than later. Do not press on regardless if the plane is going to come down, land now, not later.
Of course with all being well this will not be the case.
 

Bio

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Paul Borreson continued...

EXAMPLE OF A HIGH DOSE SHORT DURATION STACK

18 DAYS IN A MASSAGE PARLOUR STACK
This is a sophisticated stack and I wrote it for a current Mr. Universe to enable this person to gain more mass over the Christmas period. We use this stack on the back of a successful period of gains after competition. This is the second course for Mr. Universe since the show so his bodyweight has reached a plateau and something new and juicy is required to get things moving.
There is a need for oestrogen buffering firstly it is a good anti-catabolic strategy but also to keep control of the androgenic effects of the steroid aspects of this cycle.

EACH DAY:
40mg Tamoxifen
1 Diazide tablet
Armidex 2 times 2mg per day
ANABOLIC
Two simple strategies were used. Insulin in the form of 30 IU Insulinard taken first thing in the morning rising by 5 IU a day until the peak of 55 IU was achieved. This does deliver a large dose of rapid acting insulin in the first 90 minutes as Insulintard is 30 percent fast acting. For this reason Mr. universe has to eat directly after taken the shot and again an hour later. Large meals with a total of 200 grams of carbohydrates which a 800 Kcals straight off.
Growth hormone taken in two microcyles throughout the 18 days of the cycle.
Days 5,6,7,8 4 IU each day take as two divided doses of 2 IU.
Days 12,13 8 IU taken as four divided doses of 2 IU
Also T3 at a small dose of 25 MCG a day was recommended. " days on one days off this is purely to increment metabolic activity.
THE ANTICATABOLIC ASPECT
We took 2 bottles of Capristan The real product. Both had 50 ML
ONLY AVAILABLE FROM MYSELF AT THE MOMENT.

We called them bottles A and B:

BOTTLE A
We added
20 ML Deca 2,00
20 ML Primo Depot
10 ML Test propionate

BOTTLE B
We added
20 Ml Testosterone Enanthate
20 Ml Sustanon
10 Ml Testosterone Propionate
This is how the course was structured. Remember this is a big man. Over 330 LB in good condition so you have to adjust accordingly…..

ALL SHOTS ARE LOCATED
DAYS 1- 5
10 Ml bottle A per day. Taken as 4 2.5 ML shots located.
DAYS 6-12
5 Ml bottle A and 5 Ml bottle B taken each day.
DAYS 13 - 18
10 Ml Bottle B taken each day…….
 

qbkilla

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Jesus god lol, I was thinking more 4g a week or so as a high dosed cycle. Or say

2cc Tren ed 1400mg+
2g of test week
+ oral

Does anyone have a link to the Clark thread? I must have missed it, sometimes if I don't find the title of a thread practical or eye catching I will skip over threads.
 
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