good read about tendons.

[hwood]

great article

Pulled hip flex during test e only cycle. Also, notice skin tone esp. face looks rather weathered during test e cycle only (500 per week). So both are possibly because of the test effect on collagen producti

 

[seabee6923]

Great Read

I didn't know this, which it will have to be something that I pay attention to in the future. Bump.

 

[donjoy]

I know that libido was not the issue for this article, but I am curious if it would be maintained or even increased with a 250mg/week test dose? Say that combined with EQ in the amount of 400mg/week. Would the higher dose of EQ kill the libido or would the test dose maintain it?

 

[ironfreak83]

I know that libido was not the issue for this article, but I am curious if it would be maintained or even increased with a 250mg/week test dose? Say that combined with EQ in the amount of 400mg/week. Would the higher dose of EQ kill the libido or would the test dose maintain it?

right now i'm runnin 250mg/week of test c, 600mg deca, and 400 mg EQ. i have had no drop in libido or sex drive. i feel great, i'm geting stronger, and the tendons and joints feel phenominal. i personally doubt i'll ever go above 500mg of test a week ever again.

 

[HeavyHitter2]

nobody mentioned aflutop, I thought it was great for joint pain? I've never tried it but I heard many good things about it.

 

[Newman]

I've inquired about this on other threads but I'd like to know what studies point to EQ having this over 300% increase in collagen synthesis. I've heard this thrown around on other boards but never substantiated.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Bump on this.

I know it's an old thread, but studies would be nice.

I even opened a thread about AAS & collagen, but AFAIK, only Deca, Anavar & Gh have been proven to do the job.

 

[CDJack]

FYI, NOTHING the OP said is substantiated by ANY scientific evidence. He provides ZERO references, and I have searched many times to no avail. His statements are completely fabricated

 

[Newman]

FYI, NOTHING the OP said is substantiated by ANY scientific evidence. He provides ZERO references, and I have searched many times to no avail. His statements are completely fabricated

Well, I hope he's right.

I'd hate to think that so many EQ lovers are paying extra money just for a piss poor anabolic that gives slow gains, great vascularity & no extra collagen synthesis!!!...

 

[The BB Monad]

I just want to say what a great post this was.

Thanks for the info on AAS and tendons.

 

[CDJack]

This is NOT a great post. It's a horrible one. when you make scientific claims like this, you need to post studies to bolster your argument. This has no references. I cannot find evidence anywhere of ANY of these claims

 

[studmuffin]

Great post, I have had some tendon problems recently and have been searching on this exact topic for some time with no luck...... I should have just came here first!

 

[studmuffin]

FYI, NOTHING the OP said is substantiated by ANY scientific evidence. He provides ZERO references, and I have searched many times to no avail. His statements are completely fabricated

hmmmm, then again, maybe this is why I never found anything else while searching

 

[Bigblack]

BULLSHIT

THIS ARTICLE IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO FACTS AT ALL


COMPLETELY MADE UP, COMPLETELY!

 

[done101]

I just want to say what a great post this was.

Thanks for the info on AAS and tendons.

i agree!!! imo 2 cents

 

[richiec]

not too sure about the exact numbers, but this article was a good read. I know guys that tore tendons while playing ball and on winny, could have been coincidence or not

 

[Ivan]

???

This is NOT a great post. It's a horrible one. when you make scientific claims like this, you need to post studies to bolster your argument. This has no references. I cannot find evidence anywhere of ANY of these claims

THIS ARTICLE IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO FACTS AT ALL


COMPLETELY MADE UP, COMPLETELY!

Ok guys, keep pumping that winstrol as your joints fall apart, oh but it is all bullshit right? This thread is a GREAT POST.

 

[dragonfire101]

oxandrolone-collagen

J Burns Wounds. 2007 Mar 7;6:e4.
The effect of oxandrolone treatment on human osteoblastic cells.

Bi LX, Wiren KM, Zhang XW, Oliveira GV, Klein GL, Mainous EG, Herndon DN.

Department of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX, USA. [email protected]
Abstract

OBJECTIVE: Oxandrolone, administered to severely burned children over the first year postburn, produces increased lean body mass by 6 months; however, an increase in total body bone mineral requires 12 months. Consequently, this bone mineral response may be due to increased muscle mass. Alternatively, oxandrolone may act directly on bone. The current study seeks to determine whether oxandrolone can transactivate the androgen receptor in osteoblasts. METHODS: Collagen, alkaline phosphatase, osteocalcin, osteoprotegerin, and androgen receptor abundance were determined by qRT-PCR, confocal laser scanning microscopy, or immunoquantitative assay. To determine the effect of oxandrolone on gene expression in differentiated cells, osteocytic cultures were grown to confluence in differentiation medium and then treated 24 hours or 5 days with 15 microg/mL oxandrolone. RESULTS: Increased nuclear fluorescence of the androgen receptor and increased cellular type I collagen were observed with oxandrolone at 15 and 30 microg/mL but not at lower doses. Alkaline phosphatase (7%-20%) and osteocalcin (13%-18%) increases were modest but significant. Short-term treatment produced no significant effects, but at 5 days androgen receptor levels were increased while collagen levels were significantly decreased, with little effect on alkaline phosphatase, osteocalcin, or osteoprotegerin. CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest oxandrolone can stimulate production of osteoblast differentiation markers in proliferating osteoblastic cells, most likely through the androgen receptor; however, with longer treatment in mature cells, oxandrolone decreases collagen expression. Thus it is possible that oxandrolone given to burned children acts directly on immature osteoblasts to stimulate collagen production, but also may have positive effects to increase bone mineral through other mechanisms.

 

[THE_MANN]

Awesome info!

 

[HardKnox]

One study showed winstrol strengthened tendons in rotator cuff injuries.

I am laid up right now after ripping the tendon off the bone in my right leg and shredding the quadriceps off the bone in the same leg. Anything that could help in healing is a good thing.


Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol.

Researchers: Falanga V, Greenberg AS, Zhou L, Ochoa SM, Roberts AB, Falabella A, Yamaguchi Y; University of Miami School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology, Miami, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Florida, USA.

Source: J Invest Dermatol 1998 Dec;111(6):1193-7

Summary: In this report, we measured the effect of the anabolic steroid stanozolol on cell replication and collagen synthesis in cultures of adult human dermal fibroblasts. Stanozolol (0.625-5 micrograms per ml) had no effect on fibroblast replication and cell viability but enhanced collagen synthesis in a dose-dependent manner. Stanozolol also increased (by 2-fold) the mRNA levels of alpha1 (I) and alpha1 (III) procollagen and, to a similar extent, upregulated transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) mRNA and peptide levels. There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone. The stimulatory effects of stanozolol on collagen synthesis were blocked by a TGF-beta1 anti-sense oligonucleotide, by antibodies to TGF-beta, and in dermal fibroblast cultures derived from TGF-beta-1 knockout mice. We conclude that collagen synthesis is increased by the anabolic steroid stanozolol and that, for the most part, this effect is due to TGF-beta-1. These findings point to a novel mechanism of action of anabolic steroids.

Discussion: I must first acknowledge that the commonly held belief is that anabolic steroids predispose an athlete to tendon rupture. This conclusion is drawn from animal studies showing that some steroids produce a larger, stiffer tendon in rats and that these steroid-induced tendons "fail" before the tendons from the control animals. The term fail refers to the breaking point.

The interesting thing about the present study is that the steroid stanozolol (Winstrol) had a different effect than testosterone. If you are a regular reader of MESO-Rx you should be well aware that not all steroids act in the same manner. And that because of subtle differences in there molecular structure they are able to elicit different responses. For example, Deca seems to act primarily through the androgen receptor (AR) where as Dianabol has effects beyond those associated with the AR.

Because synthetic steroids have differ in their chemical properties it should not be surprising that testosterone did not have the same effect as Winstrol. Winstrol increased collagen synthesis as opposed to testosterone which did not in this study. Interpreting the results of this study are more difficult than simply describing them. Other researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992). These same researchers noted that low dose anabolics effect primarily muscle collagenous tissue with tendon being effected only at higher doses (i.e. 5 times the therapeutic dose) which would more closely represent what is needed by bodybuilders to put on mass.

The question remains, dose this mean that Winstrol will actually help prevent tendon injury or will it lead to bigger yet stiffer tendons prone to injury? It is difficult to take animal research and extrapolate the results to humans. Stanozolol is used therapeutically in humans to treat a variety of connective tissue and vascular disorders and its clinical effects suggest that it can modulate connective tissue breakdown in people. Despite being labeled as "ineffective" by many bodybuilders it is very popular among athletes. As with most hormones, dosage plays a role in what effects are seen, be they positive or negative. Hopefully future studies will shed light on the therapeutic effects of different steroids on tendons in humans.

References:

Michna H Appearance and ultrastructure of intranuclear crystalloids in tendon fibroblasts induced by an anabolic steroid hormone in the mouse. Acta Anat (Basel) 1988;133(3):247-50

Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effects of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary report. Am J Sports Med 1992 May-Jun;20(3):262-6

 

[Ivan]

yes

The question remains, dose this mean that Winstrol will actually help prevent tendon injury or will it lead to bigger yet stiffer tendons prone to injury? It is difficult to take animal research and extrapolate the results to humans. Stanozolol is used therapeutically in humans to treat a variety of connective tissue and vascular disorders and its clinical effects suggest that it can modulate connective tissue breakdown in people. Despite being labeled as "ineffective" by many bodybuilders it is very popular among athletes. As with most hormones, dosage plays a role in what effects are seen, be they positive or negative. Hopefully future studies will shed light on the therapeutic effects of different steroids on tendons in humans.

In my experience, it is uncanny the striking relation to injury and stanozolol use. I for one, think winstrol dries me out like none other, I am strong, hard, and fast...except what good is that if you are injured? My joints would ACHE every damn time I took it after the 1st cycle of Zambons, and EVERY time, I would get hurt. My fellow athletes (wrestlers, football players, track guys) all loved it as well -- the first cycle was great. Now we would not take it even if we were paid to. Uggh I am just thinking back to doing hack squats, or normal squats and feeling that painful pinch in the knees...