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HCG Info & Usage

xcelbeyond

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This little article is from Muscletalk, by Bigfella:

HCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin and is not a steroid, but a natural peptide hormone which develops in the placenta of pregnant women during pregnancy to controls the mother's hormones. (Incidentally, this is the reason you may hear of people testing for growth hormone (HGH) with a pregnancy testing kit - If their HGH shows 'pregnant', they've been ripped-off with cheaper HCG - but we digress slightly).

Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.

HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.

The typically observed dosing of 2000 to 5000IU every 4 to 5 days causes such an increase in oestrogen levels via aromatisation of the natural testosterone that this has been responsible for many cases of gynecomastia.

From the above discussion it is clear that HCG is best used during a cycle, either to:

1) Avoid testicular atrophy, or
2) Rectify the problem of an existing testicular atrophy.

Doses of HCG
Smaller doses, more frequently during a cycle will give best overall results with least unwanted side effects. Somewhere between 500iu and 1000iu per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes.

xcel
 
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xcelbeyond

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Just another note on daily dosage (this was a very good thread over at Got Fina). It is purported that higher doses (ie over 1000i.u.) have shown to desensitise the testis to LH which is not something you want to do if restarting them is your goal. It was suggest that daily dosages be kept to this or less.

This was within same thread: split the dosages up...otherwise with 5000IU you could do serious damage to your leydig cells...essentially making your nuts never work properly again...heed this warning...

Anyone else hear of this?

xcel
 
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xcelbeyond

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^
 

Conan21

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would using HCG along with an anti-E still be bad for post cycle treatment??

don't understand this LH thing too much

:confused:
 

xcelbeyond

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From Doctor Swale

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
 

Kane

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Great info...Thanks xcel..
 

xcelbeyond

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Steak Helmet

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Excellent post...I was going to use that in the wrong way. XCEL, thanks again.
 

Jonnyel

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Good info!!
 

xcelbeyond

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Post by Snarf from http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11116

Pergonal is simply LH (leutinizing hormone) and FSH (Follicle stimulating hormone) combined. It is derived from the urine of pregnant women.

HCG (human chorionic gonadotropin), also from women's pee, mimics the activity of LH.

Your goal in PCT is to get your testosterone production back up and running. This is mediated by your Leydig cells in your testes. Leydig cells contain LH receptors which stimulates testosterone production. So, for getting your test back up, you really only need HCG.

However, if you are worried about sperm production, there might be some merit to using Pergonal, beacuse the FSH binds to/stimulates Sertoli cells in the testes which more directly impacts sperm production.

The problem is that if you use Pergonal, you are supplementing with exogenous FSH and this will tell your pituitary that you don't need to make any more. So, your testes might start making some sperm, but you really havn't recovered your HPTA.

I still strongly believe in using HCG DURING your cycle in low weekly doses so your testes are never shut down. When you hit PCT, you can continue moderate HCG dosing and wait for your natural LH and FSH to rebound.

Blasting your Leydig cells with massive HCG doses (5,000IU +) periodically is just asking for primary hypogonadism. If you insist on doing HCG this way, make sure you take some Nolvadex at the same time. This has been shown to limit the reduced Leydig cell sensitivity to HCG.
 

cal

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seems like there is a large range in hcg dosages..
 

Jrflex10er

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I liked 400ius....using in small doses throughout my cycle helped me alot.
 

xcelbeyond

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How to convert 1cc of HCG into a more usable volume

When you typically purchase 5000iu you end up with 1ml of product (1ml and 1cc are identical). I always buy a bunch of empty 10ml and 50ml sterile vials, 0.22 sterile filters and have bacteriostatic water made up in advance.

To make 50ml of bac water: Get an empty 50ml sterile vial. Get a "larger" syringe - I use a 20 ml. Buy some "distilled" water and BA. Use a 3ml syringe and draw up 1.5cc of BA, then sterile filter it into the 50ml vial. Run 48.5cc of distilled water through the SAME filter into the vial. Result - 50ml of sterile baceriostatic water with 3% BA. You may need to shake it up before using/drawing from the vial.

Sometimes you have no choice doing it this way if both the water and powder come in amps - like the stuff I get.

Mix up the hcg with water it comes with then transfer it into the 10 ml sterile vial. I add about 4.0 to 4.5 ml bac water depending on if I'm going to inject it with a 3cc pin (you always leave a little bit in the pin). Using a slin pin for sub-q, there's little to no loss. The result is 1000iu/ml, so 500iu would be 0.5cc or 50 on a slin pin.

Keep it stored in fridge - should be good for up to 2 months.
 
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clearvizion

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10ml batch

Using a 10mL sterile vial would only be good for 20 500 IU injections. Since HCG is normally used for 3 to 4 weeks, couldn't I just make a larger batch? Is there a specific reason for using a smaller vial?
 

K1

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Great post, as usual..........
 

xcelbeyond

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clearvizion said:
Using a 10mL sterile vial would only be good for 20 500 IU injections. Since HCG is normally used for 3 to 4 weeks, couldn't I just make a larger batch? Is there a specific reason for using a smaller vial?
I really don't understand what you're asking here. Mixed HCG is only good in fridge for 60 days (see post above). You only use 500-1000 iu EW. I've been using 500iu EW with good results, but I'm not on that much stuff. 10 weeks is really pushing the storage life though.

I had the numbers wrong in my post and corrected them. Try not to mix up more that you can use in 60 days - that's the reason for smaller vials (and they're easier to hide).
 

sizematters270

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i read on another board that you can freeze your hcg once you have made it up & just get it out when required.
I froze all mine in the syringe in lots of 250ius & just get one out each mon & thurs.
Im doing hcg during my course for the first time at 250ius 2x/wk for 8 wks.
 

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