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HDL levels

PHIL HERNON

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Here is an interesting fact. I know two top 5 olympians whose HDL levels were 3 and 0 respectively. Yes, 3 and 0. I am wondering how important HDL levels really are or if taking stuff alters the test.
 

Got Juice

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not 100% sure, but i thought hdl's had a direct affect on ldl's. supposedly if you have low hdl your ldl will be higher.. now you just need to find out what their ldls were like. i bet its not pretty..lol

later,

Todd
 

xcelbeyond

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This is really scary and sad.

Numbers like this are not just bad, they're a walking time bomb.

xcel
 

big_byrd52

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the last time i had mine checked it was 7. for that test my LDL was in the normal range, just low HDL, prob due to winny and fina. the next check up it was at 22 and i was on test,eq at the time.

i heard an ad on the radio the other day about something that raises HDL levels, was it citirical, i cant remember. does anyone know what it is or something that will help raise it?
 

billycarp

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These levels are extremely low and obviously not healthy. HDL is involved in what is referred to as "reverse cholesterol transport". Basically, meaning it helps to clear the bad cholesterol from the blood. And, yes Test and the like can alter both HDL and LDL levels (as well as Trigs) by lowering HDL and incresing LDL. Using orals MAY have a more significant effect -- as well as your genetics.

HDL levels are increased somewhat by exercise and to a larger extent Niacin (Niaspam is the time release Rx version). Niacin and Niaspam both can have significant side effects as well such as flushing, GI upset and headache. Some Docs will use Tricor in patients whom do not tolerate niacin.

However, I too have seen these types of results in both Pros and recreational users. The good news is that levels tend to normalize when users go off -- but that leads to a whole other discussion.
 

big_byrd52

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Oh, i forgot, HGH is supposed to raise HDL levels. I just started that and will be rechecked in a few weeks.
 

Homer

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Arimidex is proven to be very hard on your HDL levels. Mine was 14. i have cut out the Arimidex and been on Naispan therapy for 3 months and will be rechecking my levels soon.
 

billycarp

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Yes, that could be true about Arim -- unlike nolvadex which PH mentioned. What dose of Niaspan are you on -- and are you tolerating it ok?

Also, you should ask your doc to get your HDL2b levels checked -- it is the most active of the HDL subclasses (in a good way).
 

Homer

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500 mg at night. first few nights sucked until the flushing went away. feels like a really hot sunburn.
 

wildman536

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Homer said:
500 mg at night. first few nights sucked until the flushing went away. feels like a really hot sunburn.
tonite was the first i have taken, it says to take it with food what did yall eat when you took it? (niaspan)
 

LATS

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guys, you can get "flush" free niacin.. most grocery stores have it.. and like phil said, nolvadex works great.. i had blood work done and my hdl was not near as bad as those mentioned (27) but, after three months of nolva and 1000-1500 of niacin i had my blood checked and was 44.. so, as phil stated, nolva is a must in my routine anymore..plus, i am paying more attention to diet ect.. but, every little bit helps..;) there is no excuse for hdl that low.. take the precautions.. but, many wont..
 

PHIL HERNON

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I know about Nolva....

LATS said:
guys, you can get "flush" free niacin.. most grocery stores have it.. and like phil said, nolvadex works great.. i had blood work done and my hdl was not near as bad as those mentioned (27) but, after three months of nolva and 1000-1500 of niacin i had my blood checked and was 44.. so, as phil stated, nolva is a must in my routine anymore..plus, i am paying more attention to diet ect.. but, every little bit helps..;) there is no excuse for hdl that low.. take the precautions.. but, many wont..

Because LATS told me about it after I got my blood test back.
 

mikeheavypecs

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On this topic, my Internist went wild when I got my blood results back around Xmas and my HDL was 9 and had dropped in 6 months from 40. She immediately started me on Niaspan. It is now in the mid 20's which she says is not good. The way she described HDL was that it was like a brush which runs through the arteries etc and cleans out the plaque. Without it the plaque will build up and of course we know what happens then. She said short term it isn't as significant but one going for 6 months to a year with a super low HDL is very dangerous. I'm still taking Niaspan hoping it will still continue up. Certain AASs pull down the HDL alot faster than others. I know one of hte worst is a legal one called SuperDrol;;that is one of the ones that brought mine down along with Dbol.

Mike
 

wildman536

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yeah SD is VERY hard on the lipids, i had a blood test about 3 weeks ago my HDL was 6 and about a week ago it was 19, The doc prescribed niaspan took one last night diddnt react, and will take it for the next 6 weeks and get more blood drawn, my "Bad" cholesterol was good, and my good chole was bad (go figure) but the doc also said that short term its nothing to worry about but if it contines for years it could potentially be bad.
 

juicyr6

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LATS said:
guys, you can get "flush" free niacin.. most grocery stores have it.. and like phil said, nolvadex works great.. i had blood work done and my hdl was not near as bad as those mentioned (27) but, after three months of nolva and 1000-1500 of niacin i had my blood checked and was 44.. so, as phil stated, nolva is a must in my routine anymore..plus, i am paying more attention to diet ect.. but, every little bit helps..;) there is no excuse for hdl that low.. take the precautions.. but, many wont..
yes there are some version of "flush" free niacin...
i had a blood test done and my HDL was actually great. (51)
and although my ldl levels were withing a good range (120) [less than 130 is good], but i'm curious if niacin also helps lower the LDL...i know it helps increase the hdl, but what does it do for de ldl? anyone know?
 

auspex

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niacin

Copied this from UpToDate - a review of common therapies we use at our hospital. Long read but some interesting information.

NICOTINIC ACID — Nicotinic acid is available in several formulations that include immediate-release (crystalline) and sustained release formulations such as Niacor® and Niaspan®. Nicotinic acid and nicotinamide are the two common forms of the vitamin most often referred to as niacin. (See "Overview of water-soluble vitamins", section on vitamin B3.) Nicotinic acid has a variety of effects on lipid metabolism (show figure 2):

It inhibits the hepatic production of VLDL and consequently its metabolite LDL [8].
It raises HDL levels by as much as 30 to 35 percent, both by reducing lipid transfer of cholesterol from HDL to VLDL and by delaying HDL clearance [8,9].
Another favorable property of nicotinic acid is a reduction in plasma fibrinogen levels [10].

Preparations — The content of over-the-counter (OTC) preparations of niacin are not federally regulated in the US [11]. OTC preparations that are marketed as causing "no flush" may have no free nicotinic acid and are ineffective in treating dyslipidemia, while some formulations of sustained-release OTC niacin have been associated with an increased risk of hepatotoxicity (see below); Slo-Niacin and perhaps Enduracin appear to be relatively safe. The sustained-release prescription brand Niaspan appears to be safe and effective although it is more expensive. OTC immediate-release niacin preparations are inexpensive, contain a full amount of free nicotinic acid, and are safer than most sustained-release preparations.

Uses — Nicotinic acid is effective in patients with hypercholesterolemia and in combined hyperlipidemia associated with normal and low levels of HDL cholesterol (hypoalphalipoproteinemia) [8,9,12]. The HDL raising properties of nicotinic acid occur with dosages as low as 1 to 1.5 g/day [12]. In contrast, the VLDL and LDL lowering effects are typically seen with higher doses (3 g/day) [8,9]. In one study, for example, nicotinic acid in a dose of 500 mg TID raised HDL cholesterol by 20 percent but reduced LDL cholesterol by only 5 percent. In comparison, a higher dose of 1.5 g TID produced more prominent changes of 33 percent (HDL elevation) and 23 percent (LDL reduction). At higher doses, nicotinic acid can also lower lipoprotein (a) levels by as much as 35 percent [9].

Additional LDL lowering can be attained by the addition of a bile acid sequestrant and/or HMG CoA reductase inhibitor (statin). In one study of 269 patients, the reduction of total and LDL cholesterol with sustained release niacin was 11 and 18 percent, respectively, compared with 23 and 32 percent, respectively, in those taking a combination of niacin and a statin [13]. A combination tablet with extended release niacin and lovastatin is now available and may help with compliance in patients who are already on a stable dose of both drugs [14].

Therapy with crystalline nicotinic acid is initiated at 100 mg three times daily and gradually increased to the targeted dosage as tolerated [12]. Pretreatment with aspirin 30 minutes prior to dosing can minimize flushing and other prostaglandin-mediated side effects noted below. This adverse reaction often diminishes in seven to 10 days. Nicotinic acid is better tolerated when ingested with food, which minimizes gastrointestinal side effects.

Niaspan® is a controlled release formulation of nicotinic acid that is administered once daily. Niaspan® is initiated at a dose of 500 mg nightly for one month and the dosage is titrated to 1000 mg. The standard dosage of Niaspan® is 1 to 2 grams nightly. It is advised that the medication be given with a night-time snack, but our experience suggests improved tolerability with dosing after the evening meal.

Side effects — The use of nicotinic acid is often limited by poor tolerability. At standard doses (1.5 to 4.5 g/day), flushing occurs in 80 percent of patients taking the crystalline preparation, and pruritus, paresthesias, and nausea each occur in about 20 percent [9].

Flushing appears to be less common with controlled release Niaspan®. In one study of 269 patients receiving a median dose of 2000 mg/day for 48 weeks, 4.8 percent discontinued the drug because of flushing [13]. In another report in which both formulations were given in a dose of 1500 mg/day for four months, Niaspan® was accompanied by fewer flushing episodes per month (1.9 versus 8.6) [15].

Elevations in hepatocellular enzymes are also common with nicotinic acid and may lead to severe hepatotoxicity, jaundice, and fulminant hepatitis. The onset of hepatocellular injury is not predictable; therefore regular monitoring of biochemical studies is mandatory. Crystalline niacin is preferred to most sustained-release preparations, since the former is associated with a greater hypolipidemic effect and seemingly less hepatotoxicity (show figure 3) [12,16]. An exception may be extended release Niaspan®, which has been found to minimally raise transaminases in clinical trials, but not cause significant hepatotoxicity [17].

Other important problems with nicotinic acid include [12]:

Nicotinic acid causes insulin resistance. As a result, hyperglycemia may develop in susceptible patients and the glycemic state may be worsened in those already being treated for overt diabetes mellitus [18]. This effect appears to be greatest with some extended release preparations, and minimized with crystalline niacin and perhaps Niaspan®. (See "Treatment of dyslipidemia in diabetes mellitus").
Nicotinic acid can induce hyperuricemia and precipitate acute gouty arthritis; it should therefore be avoided in any patient with a history of gout.
Nicotinic acid can produce hypotension in subjects treated with vasodilators, and can exacerbate unstable angina pectoris [19].
Nicotinic acid causes a dose-dependent elevation in plasma homocysteine levels that may negate its favorable effects on the lipid profile in certain subsets of patients [20]. Thus, after nicotinic acid is titrated to a stable maintenance dose, homocysteine levels should be measured. While many investigators would recommend therapy when homocysteine levels exceed 15 µmol/L, the efficacy of this approach remains uncertain and clinical trials are now ongoing to address this issue. (See "Overview of homocysteine").
 

auspex

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Tamoxifen

In regards to tamoxifen and lipids

Tamoxifen — The anti-estrogen tamoxifen appears to lower total and LDL-cholesterol (12 and 19 percent, respectively, in one report) without changing HDL-cholesterol [46]. There are conflicting data as to whether tamoxifen does [47] or does not [46] raise serum triglycerides. Tamoxifen has not been shown to affect cardiovascular outcomes. (See "Use of selective estrogen receptor modulators in postmenopausal women", section on Cardiovascular disease).

Unfortunately the study was done in postmenopausal women. I will search for reports/case studies in men.

Grey, AB, Stapleton, JP, Evans, MC, Reid, IR. The effect of the anti-estrogen tamoxifen on cardiovascular risk factors in normal postmenopausal women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1995; 80:3191.
 

juicyr6

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auspex said:
It inhibits the hepatic production of VLDL and consequently its metabolite LDL [8].

QUOTE]


thank you...thats what i was looking for
 

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