Hematocrit/hemoglobin problems (again)

[suppdude]

I've looked into naringin (grapefruit). Seems it might help for people with high hemoglobin's (I guess I qualify) but it also inhibits absorption of a lot of things as well. I did speak with Stewie once about it. I may have no choice but to take it now though.

Cardio is HIIT every other day, water intake is plenty. I use nattokinase instead of baby aspirin.

Are my MT2 shots too frequent? I have always been a fan of using a low dose and dividing it. Sometimes I do it E3D instead. Just 0.2mg sub q at a time. (obviously I'm stopping it regardless)

HIIT isn't doing much/if anything for your H&H as LISS would be.

 

[nothuman]

He is still not 100% sure because he never presented all the facts but I want to say it boosted or dropped something because he was taking it like you and it kept it in his system to long which its not suppose to be that's why on maintaining you only pin it every 2 or 3 weeks it does its job then clears your system.


I'm going to go back a read from the beginning I just seen some things that jumped out at me and was like oh shit. Again. I'll text my man and see what it was with him. Call around because most blood banks DO and can take double red blood cells. I would tell your Dr that too. It's not daft to walk around 20+ if you don't have to and if he thinks it is you need to swap doctors.

Your not on EQ or anything else are you?

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I never really thought much of my MT2 usage until now. I'm curious to hear more about your friend's situation if you find out any more. I appreciate you bringing this to my attention.

I have two blood banks near me that aren't affiliated so I could donate at one and then the other if I want to. They don't return the plasma sine it's whole blood but I am under the impression you don't want the plasma returned. At least that's what someone smart said on here once said (Kaladryn). I have no way of knowing if he is right or not though and no one else seems to know either.

No the last blast I did was Sep-early Nov and it was test only 750mg per week. I planned on doing a test prop blast but obviously those plans are out the window. I haven't used another anabolic other than test in a long time, as I am trying to be healthy and maintain/lose fast/slowly build and not do anything aggressive.

 

[nothuman]

HIIT isn't doing much/if anything for your H&H as LISS would be.

Why do you say this?

 

[Muscle1031]

I never really thought much of my MT2 usage until now. I'm curious to hear more about your friend's situation if you find out any more. I appreciate you bringing this to my attention.

I have two blood banks near me that aren't affiliated so I could donate at one and then the other if I want to. They don't return the plasma sine it's whole blood but I am under the impression you don't want the plasma returned. At least that's what someone smart said on here once said (Kaladryn). I have no way of knowing if he is right or not though and no one else seems to know either.

No the last blast I did was Sep-early Nov and it was test only 750mg per week. I planned on doing a test prop blast but obviously those plans are out the window. I haven't used another anabolic other than test in a long time, as I am trying to be healthy and maintain/lose fast/slowly build and not do anything aggressive.

Basically what happens is when you donate one point of blood however many red blood cells are in that point they double that amount and they put everything else back in so they only take the red blood cells so it'll drastically lower your account and you will still have the blood in your body. If that makes sense

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[suppdude]

Why do you say this?

I shouldn't have said HIIT isn't doing anything, but steady state would be of greater benefit if trying to lower HH.

Another tip taken from Dante. Look at endurance athletes. HH always seem to be lower. Increased blood volume among other mechanisms.

 

[nothuman]

I shouldn't have said HIIT isn't doing anything, but steady state would be of greater benefit if trying to lower HH.

Another tip taken from Dante. Look at endurance athletes. HH always seem to be lower. Increased blood volume among other mechanisms.

I do recall him saying HH is lower in endurance athletes as well but HIIT builds endurance faster than LISS though, so I don't see how LISS would help lower it any more

 

[nothuman]

[urldeleted cannot find the right study[/url]

RBC's and HCT both when up exactly the same amount (16.7% in 3 weeks)

A person told me his own hematocrit dropped from 58 to 47 in about 6 weeks MAYBE 7 of being off mt2

I just tried for a half an hour to find the studies that I had shown to Skip and all at IM and i cannot for the life of me find them but there is no doubt in my mind that MT2 raises hemat/hemo

Did he donate any blood in this time frame?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

no....we just talked in text you and I but no

Its the MT2 trust me on this...get off of that and youll see it go back down.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I just did another huge search.....I cannot find them....Scott Stevenson and I came up with some studies years back in the moderator forum....I either researched them thru the chemical name or analogues of melatanon - I cannot find them now for the life of me

 

[Knight9]

Agreed on MT2. Go with that premise Nothuman.

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[nothuman]

no....we just talked in text you and I but no

Its the MT2 trust me on this...get off of that and youll see it go back down.

I just did another huge search.....I cannot find them....Scott Stevenson and I came up with some studies years back in the moderator forum....I either researched them thru the chemical name or analogues of melatanon - I cannot find them now for the life of me

Agreed on MT2. Go with that premise Nothuman.

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Yea guys I already took my MT2 vial out of the fridge and stashed it in my closet. It's literally the only thing I take that has any of this making sense. Hopefully this ends this issue for once and for all. Thank you Dante.

 

[nothuman]

Now that I think of it, I remember having major issues with this early in 2014 where I'd have to keep getting phlebotomies. This is also the same time I used MT2 for the first time, and I was only cruising on a low test dose at the time too. After a few years of using blast doses, I never had this issue until right after. It all makes sense now.

 

[nothuman]

I went to donate blood this morning. Even without getting my ferritin back. I just wasn't comfortable walking about with a 19 hemoglobin. I still feel great though, so looks like it wasn't a bad thing. I don't think that will skew the reading once the MT2 clears my system since donating clearly hasn't done much to help so if it lowers by a lot, it'll be clear that MT2 did it.

 

[lntense]

Seems logical that it would be the MT2 considering what it does.


I'm on it as well, and this thread makes me want to get blood work to check it out.

 

[maldorf]

The easiest thing you can do to help is to cut down your test dosage to no more than 100-150 mg/wk. If you do it like Emeric does, a daily sub Q shot, he gets by on something like 80 mg/wk and has great levels on that.

I would try that and cut out that MT2. Phlebotomies maybe 3x per year then should maintain. My hematologist keeps my hemoglobin at 15.

 

[suppdude]

I do recall him saying HH is lower in endurance athletes as well but HIIT builds endurance faster than LISS though, so I don't see how LISS would help lower it any more

It's possible HIIT builds endurance quicker than LISS to a certain point, but prolonged endurance training, is where the benefit comes from. Endurance athletes will respond with both higher red cell volume and plasma volume, but plasma volume is higher than the increase in red cell volume, hematocrit will be lower.

I only say this because look at sprinters versus long distance. You think sprinters are going to have greater endurance than a long distance runner?

Philosophy of Sport and Exercise has some good information on endurance training and lower HH.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting here trying to say HIIT isn't of any benefit. I like HIIT myself, but from what I've read, LISS may help more so in the HH deparment.

 

[nothuman]

Seems logical that it would be the MT2 considering what it does.


I'm on it as well, and this thread makes me want to get blood work to check it out.

Yea I'm banking on it after watching Skip Hill's videos where he went from 58 to 47 without even donating blood. I can't believe it's possible that after all the shit I've gone through with my rbc's, it was MT2 all along.

What do you think is the mechanism behind MT2 raising it since you say it makes sense?

The easiest thing you can do to help is to cut down your test dosage to no more than 100-150 mg/wk. If you do it like Emeric does, a daily sub Q shot, he gets by on something like 80 mg/wk and has great levels on that.

I would try that and cut out that MT2. Phlebotomies maybe 3x per year then should maintain. My hematologist keeps my hemoglobin at 15.

I'm going to leave test dose as it and just drop MT2 to see if that takes care of it. It's kind of insane to think I can get a HCT of 56 and HGB of 19 from just 200mg of test.

 

[maldorf]

I'm going to leave test dose as it and just drop MT2 to see if that takes care of it. It's kind of insane to think I can get a HCT of 56 and HGB of 19 from just 200mg of test.

Well, every body is different literally. I myself had my hemoglobin get up to 17 from 15 in just two months when I was on 100 mg/wk test. If I hadn't gotten a phlebotomy I think it would have climbed much higher, the hematologist didn't let that happen though.Once we got my iron down the problem became much lessened. Now I get a phlebotomy much less frequently and it doesn't climb like that.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

I have already passed this info to nothuman but thought I`d post it anyway for the rest of you. Melanocyte-stimulating hormone, known as MSH (MT2 is artificial version) is produced by the pituitary along with 3 other hormones in one long chain which is then cleeved, cut up by enzymes. One of the other hormones in chain is ACTH, adrenocorticotropin, controls the adrenal gland cortex. This region controls release of aldosterone and cortisol. When levels of MSH are artificially raised it suppresses the body`s natural production (just like shutting down your natural test on cycle). Unfortunately natural production of MSH is also tied to ACTH production. If MSH is shut down, so is ACTH (they are formed together). Reduced ACTH, means reduced aldosterone and cortisol. What I believe is happening is his blood plasma levels are being dropped, making the hematocrit % much higher. Basically dehydrated but not thirsty because thirst is controlled by other hormones, regions of brain. Basically a self induced addisons disease (mild level) but that should all reverse out once MT2 is dropped. Everybody on this board taking any supps needs to be getting blood work done or at minimum donating blood to get an idea of hematocrit, cholesterol, BP.

 

[nothuman]

I have already passed this info to nothuman but thought I`d post it anyway for the rest of you. Melanocyte-stimulating hormone, known as MSH (MT2 is artificial version) is produced by the pituitary along with 3 other hormones in one long chain which is then cleeved, cut up by enzymes. One of the other hormones in chain is ACTH, adrenocorticotropin, controls the adrenal gland cortex. This region controls release of aldosterone and cortisol. When levels of MSH are artificially raised it suppresses the body`s natural production (just like shutting down your natural test on cycle). Unfortunately natural production of MSH is also tied to ACTH production. If MSH is shut down, so is ACTH (they are formed together). Reduced ACTH, means reduced aldosterone and cortisol. What I believe is happening is his blood plasma levels are being dropped, making the hematocrit % much higher. Basically dehydrated but not thirsty because thirst is controlled by other hormones, regions of brain. Basically a self induced addisons disease (mild level) but that should all reverse out once MT2 is dropped. Everybody on this board taking any supps needs to be getting blood work done or at minimum donating blood to get an idea of hematocrit, cholesterol, BP.

Thanks for posting this in writing because it was hard to keep track of everything just hearing it. This puts it into better perspective.