Hitting the Heavy Bag

jrs · May 8, 2009

After searching for about an hour with no luck, I figure somebody on here would know.

I have to say that combative training is the best cardio anybody could do. Screw the treadmill, learn to defend yourself when necessary and involve muscles and movements more natural and useful. Wrestling, Muay Thai, Boxing, BJJ, all of the above, whatever you do.. do something and stick with it for a little while and see if you don't feel better.

I've been boxing in particular for years. I figure since I'm now much heavier and stronger than I have ever been, I should increase the weight of the bag that I hit. Rocky Marciano used to hit a 270 lb bag at 184 pounds and he was probably one of the hardest hitters of all time. I believe Tyson trained with -heavy- bags as well. Perhaps more that I'm not aware of, now that I think about it. It's like increasing weights on lifts in the gym, no?

I just recently bought a heavy bag and took the fiber stuffing out and filled it with sandbags and a little stuffing. The sand has compressed the bottom half of the bag, so i have room for one more towards the top. This thing will be close to 200 lbs.

It feels like I'm hitting a rock. My hands and wrists have been taking a beating, so I'll be resting more. However, my punches FEEL stronger. It seems to develop a kind of isometric speed-strength in my striking from the very small but very heavy push of this bag when i punch compared to a 50-100 lb bag.. If I can move a 200 lb rock solid object with each punch, I'd imagine a face wouldn't fare so well.

Old timers told me a heavy, solid bag will produce small fractures that, when healed, will make for a very tough hand. Is this bullshit? Bad old advice?

Should I take the sand out and replace with a sand-filled PVC core with the fiber stuffing around it, about two inches before the pipe?

I do use full 14oz gloves when I train, if that makes a difference.

Big Bapper · May 8, 2009

You could break your hand hitting a bag filled like that, it would be like punching a wall.

triathloncoach · May 8, 2009

My Heavy Bag

I have a Powair water filled bag. I believe it's 130lbs. It's just a rubber bladder filled up with water. Very heavy, easy on the hands and it gives a more realistic impact as hitting a body. I think I bough it at Title Boxing? Best of all worlds.

ENraged · May 8, 2009

Big Bapper said:
You could break your hand hitting a bag filled like that, it would be like punching a wall.

X2 you gotta fluffy that stuff up or something man or else you are asking for hand problems

JJ-INSANE1 · May 8, 2009

triathloncoach said:
I have a Powair water filled bag. I believe it's 130lbs. It's just a rubber bladder filled up with water. Very heavy, easy on the hands and it gives a more realistic impact as hitting a body. I think I bough it at Title Boxing? Best of all worlds.

I have one like this but i filled it with play sand (used for kids sand boxes) instead of sand. Its heavy as shit and solid but still safe to hit without busting up your hands because the stuffing stays in place around the water (sand) filled core.

JJ Insane 1

dapit26 · May 8, 2009

jrs said:
Old timers told me a heavy, solid bag will produce small fractures that, when healed, will make for a very tough hand. Is this bullshit? Bad old advice?

Should I take the sand out and replace with a sand-filled PVC core with the fiber stuffing around it, about two inches before the pipe?

I do use full 14oz gloves when I train, if that makes a difference.

For a fighter it is very important to toughen your hands. We train 2 hours a week on just hardbody training (kicking bamboo sticks with your shins, punching our 250 lb bodybag, taking punches to the stomach, bblocking high kicks, etc...) Start very light though. The best way to begin strngethening your fist is to just do knuckle pushups on cement or hard ground. Wearing Ta:14's is kind of counterproductive if trying to toughen your hands. Never punch a heavy bag as hard as you can without gloves, but again the stress fractures you talk about are important, that's what calcifies bone and makes it stronger. So throw on a pair of bag gloves and train light for the first 2 months. My basement wall is cement. There's an area that there's a large stain of dried blood. I used to punch it (again not hard enough, to break my hand or bend my wrist - but light jabs). My knuckles don't open at all anymore, hands never sore after fights and I am hitting like a heavyweight (I dropped to 179 recently from 205 - still hitting hard as hell). That's just for toughening. There's entire workouts on increasing punching power through drills and workouts - that's a whole different story. I wrote about 2 pages on it on another board I mod at.

gordo14 · May 8, 2009

Link to said post?

dapit26 said:
For a fighter it is very important to toughen your hands. We train 2 hours a week on just hardbody training (kicking bamboo sticks with your shins, punching our 250 lb bodybag, taking punches to the stomach, bblocking high kicks, etc...) Start very light though. The best way to begin strngethening your fist is to just do knuckle pushups on cement or hard ground. Wearing Ta:14's is kind of counterproductive if trying to toughen your hands. Never punch a heavy bag as hard as you can without gloves, but again the stress fractures you talk about are important, that's what calcifies bone and makes it stronger. So throw on a pair of bag gloves and train light for the first 2 months. My basement wall is cement. There's an area that there's a large stain of dried blood. I used to punch it (again not hard enough, to break my hand or bend my wrist - but light jabs). My knuckles don't open at all anymore, hands never sore after fights and I am hitting like a heavyweight (I dropped to 179 recently from 205 - still hitting hard as hell). That's just for toughening. There's entire workouts on increasing punching power through drills and workouts - that's a whole different story. I wrote about 2 pages on it on another board I mod at.

If possible it would be appreciated.

Stewie Griffon · May 8, 2009

jrs said:
After searching for about an hour with no luck, I figure somebody on here would know.

I have to say that combative training is the best cardio anybody could do. Screw the treadmill, learn to defend yourself when necessary and involve muscles and movements more natural and useful. Wrestling, Muay Thai, Boxing, BJJ, all of the above, whatever you do.. do something and stick with it for a little while and see if you don't feel better.

I've been boxing in particular for years. I figure since I'm now much heavier and stronger than I have ever been, I should increase the weight of the bag that I hit. Rocky Marciano used to hit a 270 lb bag at 184 pounds and he was probably one of the hardest hitters of all time. I believe Tyson trained with -heavy- bags as well. Perhaps more that I'm not aware of, now that I think about it. It's like increasing weights on lifts in the gym, no?

I just recently bought a heavy bag and took the fiber stuffing out and filled it with sandbags and a little stuffing. The sand has compressed the bottom half of the bag, so i have room for one more towards the top. This thing will be close to 200 lbs.

It feels like I'm hitting a rock. My hands and wrists have been taking a beating, so I'll be resting more. However, my punches FEEL stronger. It seems to develop a kind of isometric speed-strength in my striking from the very small but very heavy push of this bag when i punch compared to a 50-100 lb bag.. If I can move a 200 lb rock solid object with each punch, I'd imagine a face wouldn't fare so well.

Old timers told me a heavy, solid bag will produce small fractures that, when healed, will make for a very tough hand. Is this bullshit? Bad old advice?

Should I take the sand out and replace with a sand-filled PVC core with the fiber stuffing around it, about two inches before the pipe?

I do use full 14oz gloves when I train, if that makes a difference.

old timers know what they are talking about. those guys can do HEAVY labor all day like a steel mill, then come knock some 260lb 'bodybuilder' out with one punch. i applaud your heavy bag training, you are doing something useful with your body. you can protect your family and friends. powerlifters are the same, they are strong, they can move heavy shit, they can perform heavy labor. these are qualities which have been considered manly since recorded history.

Muay Thai · May 8, 2009

NEVER TAP!!!!!!
splish splash get your forehead cracked

bigfatandugly · May 8, 2009

one guy i know uses heavy bag work as little as possible in favour of actual sparring.

he attributes years of hitting a heavy bag to the joint problems he's now starting to see manifest themselves in his shoulders, elbows and wrists from years of pounding.

makes sense when you think about it- thats alot of repetitive shock.

BFU

bigpaparn · May 9, 2009

also very important is that you fail to use proper technique when you are in fear of breaking your leg or fist, for that matter...heavier is not always better and all bags are not create equal. to me technique is more important than power..

JohnnyPro · May 9, 2009

Stewie Griffon said:
old timers know what they are talking about. those guys can do HEAVY labor all day like a steel mill, then come knock some 260lb 'bodybuilder' out with one punch. i applaud your heavy bag training, you are doing something useful with your body. you can protect your family and friends. powerlifters are the same, they are strong, they can move heavy shit, they can perform heavy labor. these are qualities which have been considered manly since recorded history.

Not all bodybuilders are pussies or unable to protect family and friends. I can see what you are implying and it's not appreciated.

Gunsmith · May 9, 2009

it doesn't matter so much how strong you are or how hard your hands are (though they both help) but hitting hard is more about skill and knowing whats happening and the proper way to throw a punch. I've seen big guys that are plenty strong 400+lb bench haul off and hit sombody and barely stagger them yet the same guy with a few days training would likely ruin your face an possibly kill you. Hitting very hard has alot more to do with technique than brute power

Body hardening is not new by any meens but it applys more to the muscular structure and facia around the bone adapting to taking the abuse rather than the bones then selves , but the case of your hands , yes you will get tons of micro fractures in your medicarples which heal thicker and harder due to the extra calcium build up. Over time you will regret hitting a very heavy bag very hard and most likely develope arthritis in your wrist , elbows and shoulders like mentioned above.

you will get a better benifit from a lighter "heavy bag" due to haveing to move around with it more anyway if your doing it for a cardio exercise.

Gunsmith · May 9, 2009

JohnnyPro said:
Not all bodybuilders are pussies or unable to protect family and friends. I can see what you are implying and it's not appreciated.

I strongly agree JohnnyPro , i'm not sure what started this stigma that bodybuilders are all slow and clumsy and that all the rippled mass is from just light weights and their no underlying power , but its amazing how many dumb fucks think that and want to test you. I've been punched a bunch of time bouncing and working security details and I've only every been "impressed" a few time , most of the time you get hit and turn to see who did it and the offending party has that "OH FUCK he diden't fall down" look on their face

dapit26 · May 9, 2009

Gunsmith said:
you will get a better benifit from a lighter "heavy bag" due to haveing to move around with it more anyway if your doing it for a cardio exercise.

And not hitting a "heavy bag" every day.

dapit26 · May 9, 2009

gordo14 said:
If possible it would be appreciated.

I'll try and find it, I've been lazy. I know I posted it somewhere on DBB, I'll put up here on this thread when i feel like searching

617ricky · May 9, 2009

jrs said:
Old timers told me a heavy, solid bag will produce small fractures that, when healed, will make for a very tough hand. Is this bullshit? Bad old advice?

I'm not sure of the specifics about it, but that concept is definitely true.. I saw something on Discovery a while back about those guys that do EXTREME shit - like breaking shit with their heads, bending metal object with their bare hands, and just crazy shit in general.. And they were saying how a normal person would NEVER be able to do/try stuff like that, and it's cuz these guys had to gradually condition their bodies over time.. They did tests on them, and said some of their bones were like 10x stronger than an average person, and it's cuz of the abuse they put on them gradually, the body compensated by making the bones harder and harder over time.. It's like how some of those MMA guys can kick you with their bare shin and break your face, where a normal person would break their shin, lol.

Malic777.com · May 9, 2009

dont hit hard sand bags/walls/trees guys why do this to your high precision instruments?!?...rather work on precision and speed and technique and if you have to hit something hard dont do it with your knuckles use hammer fists or elbows or knees...heavy bags are great workouts but if you are going to destroy your hands in the process then its a bit counter productive...you dont need hands of steel to knock somebody out just speed and technique...wrap your hands when hitting the heavy bag and use as heavy gloves as you can handle IMO...dont lose months of effective training because you crippled your joints by beating up on walls...also a crippled bruised and abused hand is more likely to crack when you actually do hit something hard...wear hand wraps and tape over the wraps (not too tight you have you allow circulation) and use heavy gloves...its harder with heavier gloves anyway gives you a better work out...alex

Jappy's Boy · May 14, 2009

my 2cents

well this is actually something that i know alittle bit about. i'm not a bodybuilder, i'm a personal trainer and boxing instructor. i've done martial arts since i was 14 (39 now) and i'm 3-2 as an am boxer. ok...

punching in general, if your technique is good, is one of the best and funnest way's to get your cardio on. hitting mitts with a partner, or using a heavy bag gives the most bennefit. you can burn up to 600 calories in 20 minutes. and, you can burn the lactic acid out of your muscles from heavy lifting. i truly believe that it will not interfere with muscle building. again, it's all about technique. your punches should be powered from your lower body and core, not your arms. and, your fist should be soft and your arms loose UNTIL THE POINT OF IMPACT. like cracking a whip. regarding toughening your hands, by hitting obsurdly heavy bags (or walls), yes it does work. works like a motherfucker. but, if i were you i wouldnt mess with it. i mean, are you a fighter or a body builder? i wouldn't risk breaking my hands and wrists just to get my cardio. but hey, that's just me.

i would also like to speak to the notion of bodybuilders being weak, or unable to defend themselves. i used to ask my dad qusetions like "dad could a boxer whip a bodybuilder?" he would say "well if fight a boxer, you need to know that your going to tangle with a guy that fights. that means he hits people, and get's hit. so youre in with a guy that probably likes to mix it up. if you fight a bodybuilder, you're in with a guy that lifts weights. he probably is very strong, but doesnt know how to take or give a punch." so my point to relaying that old story is that bodybuilders are high profile atheletes. they attract lots of attention from thier appearence. the very fact that people speculate on the martial prowness of a BB in my opinion says alot. so, if i were a BB, i'd take it as a compliment. i mean can you imagine a boy and his dad haveing this conversation: "dad could a boxer whip a tennis player?"