How do people get better results on 6 grams of gear than 3.5 grams when receptors are fully saturated?

[BLang]

Okay, that was a bit harsh. But that was a lot of hubris in your first post for someone who doesn't understand the concept of carbs being protein sparing.

 

[Cito33189]

Everyone is different.
I feel like this is when things get overly complicated. Talking about saturation and this and that.

You have to find what works for you personally. Use small amounts once you notice it loses effectiveness up the dose and so on.

 

[TeaMan]

Okay, that was a bit harsh. But that was a lot of hubris in your first post for someone who doesn't understand the concept of carbs being protein sparing.

If you so kind explain that for me, i'll be greatefull .

 

[NorwegianMuscle]

Don't think even the pro's are using 6 grams of anything. The only way I use high dosages and justify my cycles is the more HGH I use. Growth Hormone causes hyperplasma and creates more cells so I increase my cycle around my HGH usage.

 

[luki7788]

when it comes to the test, I have seen more than once people who take 7g of the test per week, but usually it is 4-6g total in a mix of different drugs

and so the more gh and insulin you take, the more you can take AAS and you basically need more androgens

 

[junker]

Are you serious? You obviously you do gain more muscle eating BARELY enough protein for a bodybuilder (300g protein per day), then like a small bikini girl (180g protein per day). If somone thinks 180g protein for a everage size bodybuilder is sufficient, then he clearly don't know what he's doing...

wrong

 

[livinlean]

wrong

Are you guys actually debating whether 180g protein intake is comparable to 300g? I'm going to assume anyone eating 180g looks like a bikini girl at best. TF is going on here.

To add to the topic, when I first got into the mid 2's with test, my headaches were crazy and so was lethargy. I was advised to stick it through and it would get better, about 3-4 weeks into it everything was fine as well as my BP. Same thing happened to me when I first ran 1500 test but I bitched out and stopped the test because I was worried something was wrong. I mean it was wrong, my BP was crazy but i didn't realize it would eventually just come down.

I'm not sure at which point it becomes a waste but I have yet to reach that point thus far.

 

[qbkilla]

180g protein? I was always taught to train hard and eat alot of protein before using juice. Im sure there are some studies that say 1g per lb is sufficient but didn't think anyone on gear believed them.

 

[Bobik]

My girlfriend has 160-180g of protein in prep for bikini. Her BW is 55kg (121lb) lol

 

[Type-IIx]

If you so kind explain that for me, i'll be greatefull .

Carbohydrate spares muscle protein breakdown, mostly mediated by insulin. But also by providing energy substrates for glycolysis and sparing (and repleting) glycogen stores.

 

[Pretzel Logic]

Remember the theory of post AR mediated growth from huge amounts of gear? Who has tested it? How many clinical trials have been done on it? We don’t know what goes on at that level. Only God and Jordan Peters do.

 

[TeaMan]

Carbohydrate spares muscle protein breakdown, mostly mediated by insulin. But also by providing energy substrates for glycolysis and sparing (and repleting) glycogen stores.

Yea that well known fact, but in terms of "building", "sparing" seems to not be the same thing. Thats may not be proven by science but for many of bodybuilder anegdotal data, higher protein (300g +) seems equale more muscle and i never gonna believe that evarage size bodybuilder could succesfuly (mean optimaly/maximizing resoult) eat 180g or less then 300g protein a day.

 

[pickapeck]

How do you "know" that androgen receptor saturation is achieved at 3.5g??

Has androgen receptor saturation actually ever been studied or proven on humans??

This can be estimated fairly easily from published literature. From this paper full saturation in the model system used is ~20 nM. https://www.jbc.org/article/S0021-9258(17)33103-4/pdf. Now estimate the volume of the BBer which is close to their weight in kg. kg is roughly equal to L if we neglect density for convenience. Do the simple math and you have your concentration in moles needed for full saturation. 2 micro mol (2 x 10^-6 mol) of Testosterone is needed to fully saturate a 100 kg BBer if he is similar to the system used in the study. Probably this can be expected to be within a factor of 2 to 4. Testosterone is 288 gram/mol. Doing the math gives 57 mg circulating in the body at any given time. It is well known that mid range normal levels give near full saturation. Mid normal is 6 micromol/L; 6 x 10^6 mol/L x 100 L = 60 x 10 ^3 mol x 288 g/mol = 0.17 grams = 170 mg. Both estimates are within a factor of 3.

So, based on published works and calculated two different ways ~110 mg of circulating testosterone will saturate the androgen receptor in a 100 lb BBer. In most people this will be reached with 100 - 150 mg/w of test cypionate.

Now let's say that while in cycle at 8 weeks the androgen receptors double. That would mean that roughly 300 mg/w would saturate the receptors. Certainly we see more improvement past 300 mg/w so there is more going on than what can be estimated at the AR. BUT!! we are ALL certainly saturated at the AR at 3.5 g/w.

 

[pickapeck]

This can be estimated fairly easily from published literature. From this paper full saturation in the model system used is ~20 nM. https://www.jbc.org/article/S0021-9258(17)33103-4/pdf. Now estimate the volume of the BBer which is close to their weight in kg. kg is roughly equal to L if we neglect density for convenience. Do the simple math and you have your concentration in moles needed for full saturation. 2 micro mol (2 x 10^-6 mol) of Testosterone is needed to fully saturate a 100 kg BBer if he is similar to the system used in the study. Probably this can be expected to be within a factor of 2 to 4. Testosterone is 288 gram/mol. Doing the math gives 0.57 mg circulating in the body at any given time. It is well known that mid range normal levels give near full saturation. Mid normal is 6 micromol/L; 6 x 10^9 mol/L x 100 L = 60 x 10 ^6 mol x 288 g/mol = 0.00017 grams = 0.170 mg. Both estimates are within a factor of ~3.

So, based on published works and calculated two different ways ~1.10 mg of circulating testosterone will saturate the androgen receptor in a 100 lb BBer. In most people this will be reached with 100 - 150 mg/w of test cypionate.

Now let's say that while in cycle at 8 weeks the androgen receptors double. That would mean that roughly 300 mg/w would saturate the receptors. Certainly we see more improvement past 300 mg/w so there is more going on than what can be estimated at the AR. BUT!! we are ALL certainly saturated at the AR at 3.5 g/w.

Sorry I made a decimal error. Not enough morning coffee. Corrected above.

 

[yousef12O]

So, based on published works and calculated two different ways ~110 mg of circulating testosterone will saturate the androgen receptor in a 100 lb BBer. In most people this will be reached with 100 - 150 mg/w of test cypionate.

Now let's say that while in cycle at 8 weeks the androgen receptors double. That would mean that roughly 300 mg/w would saturate the receptors. Certainly we see more improvement past 300 mg/w so there is more going on than what can be estimated at the AR. BUT!! we are ALL certainly saturated at the AR at 3.5 g/w.

If androgen receptors are saturated at 150mg of test cyp for a 100kg (225lb) bodybuilder, then how do you gain more size from a gram of test when all androgen receptors are already saturated ?

 

[gradeaphysique]

Let's say a guy was on a 6g cycle, given that he didn't feel sick and it didn't mess his digestion up, no estrogen or prolactin problems etc... He would see better results than taking 3.5g of gear, how is that possible when we know that androgen receptors are saturated at 3.5 grams, so theoretically anything more would be a waste right?

You need therapy not scientific research if you're taking 3.5g gear let alone 6. I guarantee the guys on here taking that much gear aren't pros, just in a really fucked up place.

 

[yousef12O]

You need therapy not scientific research if you're taking 3.5g gear let alone 6. I guarantee the guys on here taking that much gear aren't pros, just in a really fucked up place.

I know, taking that much gear is foolish, I'm just asking

 

[gradeaphysique]

i think it's the same concept and you aren't going to gain more muscle eating 300g protein per day
as you would with 180g of protein per day..

This is a really really stupid comment. You need plenty more context than this blanket statement

 

[pickapeck]

If androgen receptors are saturated at 150mg of test cyp for a 100kg (225lb) bodybuilder, then how do you gain more size from a gram of test when all androgen receptors are already saturated ?

There must be other mechanisms outside of cytosolic and nuclear AR activation and/or activation levels vary with recruitment of ancillary factors etc.

 

[gradeaphysique]

I know, taking that much gear is foolish, I'm just asking

For a friend right?