hypogonadism, morbid obesity, moods, AI's, serms

[andy12345]

Hi all,
I live in England, UK.

I've been lurking here for a bit. I've read plenty about my title topics and how they can relate to each other (if you know what I mean)

I am 35, been obese for .......ever. Never touched alcohol, drugs, tobacco etc, just a classic gamer errrrrrr without the alcohol, drugs, tobacco.....
Oh, my drug was food........too much.

Always been a bit of a scaredy-cat/coward/anxious type so this kept me out of harm's way and safely at home. Even at age 5, I was scared of my father, but there was no good reason....strange it seems.
I was pretty withdrawn.

Looking back now, I felt that I really declined from about 23years onwards.
I think I have ADHD or such, waiting for a diagnosis either way.

In the last few months I have had 3 blood test results of
250-280ng/dl , the free T was about 2.5-2.8%.

I wonder if due to the early obesity, I've always been more estradiol loaded than I should be via the aromatase enzyme etc.

Anyway as I have not done anything that could have harmed my hormone levels except......being morbidly obese (a proven contributor in science journals) and possibly hypothyroid, and of course being a very un-energetic slab of fat, oh and possibly having insulin resistance developing and near criteria of metabolic syndrome etc,


I weigh 22 stones as of now been creeping up for years 17stones at 15years etc, but was obese probably from age 5, with lack of exercise, probably the worst combination. Also had bad attacks of whooping cough for weeks and weeks at a time from age 3-5, was not good for my development.

Anyway.................I've been on 0.25mg liquid arimidex (taken Every Other Day for about 7 weeks) from a reputable supplier from this website on the basis of reducing E2 and subsequently via the feedback loops, allowing Testosterone to elevate. I wanted to introduce it mildly and not just slam bang it at 1mg/day...so as to avoid lowering the estradiol too much.

As i've branched out on my own, it means it's not a good idea to ask my doc for blood tests to see how my hormone levels are etc.
It was a hard decision to take and I debated for months if I should take it, anyway I have.
If I get somewhere, then I could still visit a doctor that understands that testosterone does not cause people to smash up building etc and perhaps get official prescriptions etc.

The end result so far is 0% change in mood, concentration, manliness, mental stability, energy, drive, ........ie its all as before CRAP. Some of the mental issues could be ADHD, but I reckon some of the issues should at least change (a bit) to indicate an elevation of T from 280ng/dl upwards.....

I've read the anti-estrogen usage thread. It's very nice and basically seems that 0.25mg EOD is not enough for me. Surely though, even on that I should have felt a difference by now..except some members have stated that exemestane an aromatase binder/nullifier, would be better in some cases.

I suppose also, one's mileage may vary.....

Oh, as for exercise, this is always my main issue. I'm looking for a mood change, because if my current feelings are never going to change, then I'm not particularly interested in making big exercise efforts. I did 6 months at a gym, making a big effort, but gave it up (when I was 25) because I did not feel very different....

Crazy I know but depressive feelings really clamp me down.
I was on citalopram for 8 months, various doses, no difference whatsoever, not even a withdrawal effect.

I also wonder if I have some sort of absorption problem, but the liquid stuff in suspension should be pretty easy.
If I go the T route, it means I will need E2 management anyway...I want to use one medication only....

Basically, I'm hoping that some of you (who were hypogonadic or at least were obese and managing E2 successfully) have some opinions.

Put it this way, any comments will be read and appreciated.

On the other hand, this site might not have attracted to many obese people but.....the sheer amount and knowledge of members means the answers I get "should" be quite helpful.. :star-;ars

 

[kid1dakota]

Hi all,
I live in England, UK.

I've been lurking here for a bit. I've read plenty about my title topics and how they can relate to each other (if you know what I mean)

I am 35, been obese for .......ever. Never touched alcohol, drugs, tobacco etc, just a classic gamer errrrrrr without the alcohol, drugs, tobacco.....
Oh, my drug was food........too much.

Always been a bit of a scaredy-cat/coward/anxious type so this kept me out of harm's way and safely at home. Even at age 5, I was scared of my father, but there was no good reason....strange it seems.
I was pretty withdrawn.

Looking back now, I felt that I really declined from about 23years onwards.
I think I have ADHD or such, waiting for a diagnosis either way.

In the last few months I have had 3 blood test results of
250-280ng/dl , the free T was about 2.5-2.8%.

I wonder if due to the early obesity, I've always been more estradiol loaded than I should be via the aromatase enzyme etc.

Anyway as I have not done anything that could have harmed my hormone levels except......being morbidly obese (a proven contributor in science journals) and possibly hypothyroid, and of course being a very un-energetic slab of fat, oh and possibly having insulin resistance developing and near criteria of metabolic syndrome etc,


I weigh 22 stones as of now been creeping up for years 17stones at 15years etc, but was obese probably from age 5, with lack of exercise, probably the worst combination. Also had bad attacks of whooping cough for weeks and weeks at a time from age 3-5, was not good for my development.

Anyway.................I've been on 0.25mg liquid arimidex (taken Every Other Day for about 7 weeks) from a reputable supplier from this website on the basis of reducing E2 and subsequently via the feedback loops, allowing Testosterone to elevate. I wanted to introduce it mildly and not just slam bang it at 1mg/day...so as to avoid lowering the estradiol too much.

As i've branched out on my own, it means it's not a good idea to ask my doc for blood tests to see how my hormone levels are etc.
It was a hard decision to take and I debated for months if I should take it, anyway I have.
If I get somewhere, then I could still visit a doctor that understands that testosterone does not cause people to smash up building etc and perhaps get official prescriptions etc.

The end result so far is 0% change in mood, concentration, manliness, mental stability, energy, drive, ........ie its all as before CRAP. Some of the mental issues could be ADHD, but I reckon some of the issues should at least change (a bit) to indicate an elevation of T from 280ng/dl upwards.....

I've read the anti-estrogen usage thread. It's very nice and basically seems that 0.25mg EOD is not enough for me. Surely though, even on that I should have felt a difference by now..except some members have stated that exemestane an aromatase binder/nullifier, would be better in some cases.

I suppose also, one's mileage may vary.....

Oh, as for exercise, this is always my main issue. I'm looking for a mood change, because if my current feelings are never going to change, then I'm not particularly interested in making big exercise efforts. I did 6 months at a gym, making a big effort, but gave it up (when I was 25) because I did not feel very different....

Crazy I know but depressive feelings really clamp me down.
I was on citalopram for 8 months, various doses, no difference whatsoever, not even a withdrawal effect.

I also wonder if I have some sort of absorption problem, but the liquid stuff in suspension should be pretty easy.
If I go the T route, it means I will need E2 management anyway...I want to use one medication only....

Basically, I'm hoping that some of you (who were hypogonadic or at least were obese and managing E2 successfully) have some opinions.

Put it this way, any comments will be read and appreciated.

On the other hand, this site might not have attracted to many obese people but.....the sheer amount and knowledge of members means the answers I get "should" be quite helpful.. :star-;ars

My first thought after reading was that aromasin might be be a better chioce.

 

[KillerStack]

**broken link removed**

 

[mootest]

Been watching the biggest looser--it really is motivational. Fat deposits are not inert--they release chemicals which contribute to depression. When people are depressed, it's easy to turn to comfort foods, which release the pleasure chemicals in your brain, like serotonin. But the serotonin levels are only elevated for a short period and then it will crash, leaving you just as depressed as before if not more so. It's a vicious cycle. One way to elevate your serotonin levels without the crash is exercise and a clean diet. It sounds like you're suffering from clinical levels of depression, and I would suggest fixing that problem will be key in climbing out of your shell and finding the new you.

When I see larger people in the gym, I have the highest respect for them. I want to go up to them and say "good job, you're doing great, it will only get easier," and I want to say that to you. Larger people have a harder time than most, they've got to overcome their self image before they even step in the gym, and they deserve our respect and encouragement.

But back to your original question, if you have identified low T as the cause of the downward spiral, I think you're on the right track. Getting rid of a possible cause is going to help you fight your battle with an upper hand. That said, the more I read, the more I realize diet is 80% percent of the challenge, and it has to be in check before good things happen. Hormones and exercise are easy compared to the self-control required by a good clean restrained diet.

 

[andy12345]

Thanks for your replies.

The letrozole study is one I had already thought about, as well as anastrozole working for idiopathic(isolated) secondary hypogonadism.

I have a couple of studies for each of those.

There was a time when I was a vegetarian, walking to work and back (4 miles per day) as well as eating red split lentils, steamed brocolli, peas, carrots..onions garlic ginger all that stuff plus bread, fruits, nuts- too much bread.
Bread has always been my bad habit ---

In all of those years, one thing stands out to me now, insulin issues......too much carb, not enough exercise, so insulin always floating around. I know insulin is essential, but I've seen a report on obese people BMI 40-50...

With fasting insulin tests 3-4 x higher than 25 BMI types, even though the fasting glucose was not too different........ Literally, the morbid obese types were getting far less bang per unit of insulin (in my non-professsional opinion)

So, in the last 6 weeks, I have stopped eating excess carb, I eat about 100grams on a good day...... I know that cholesterol is the keystone of all hormones, so I'm eating fat and meat, herbs, spices, vegetables etc. I don't peel carrots, I like peas, blah blah. Everything in moderation I think, is a good rule. The thing about carbs, is that they are such empty calories, just sugars in effect.......pathetic.

Fat, it seems, is pretty essential (moderation) and quite fulfilling.
Protein is very esssential and of course made from amino acids, very important (9 are essential from memory)
Cholesterol is made into hormones, nerve wrappings and more that I don't profess to know.

So, the carbs really are quite junky, unless you are going to burn them off.

Michael phelps, eats 10000 kcal per day, about 50% carbs during his epic training........

For me and based in science( which sometimes shows up as being controversial) excess carbs are a pain in the neck.
When I was just eating excess carbs, it was so unstabilising.....it gave me the sunday roast dinner feeling - groggy, lethargic....

I'm such a damn procrastinator and so indecisive (I suppose anyone with -atypical depression which fits more with me - as in dysthymia)

Anyway, I'm doing what I did not want to do and typing too much.

I still hope to get some more opinions on E2 management.......

 

[Ehren]

Well, Man, good on ya for doing something to pull yourself up. BUT...you should know that Adipose tissue (fat) itself indirectly causes higher E2 levels.
And .25mg of Arimidex can't change things overnight. It may help, but it's only a little help.

Skinnier you are, less estrogen you'll have (at least coming from the fat, could also be other issues not related to adipose). I cant recall the specifics, but it's said that fat causes more aromatization Test. This is one reason that it is often recommended that people don't begin cycles of anabolics/androgens (AAS) unless their Bodyfat is under 15%.

So it's not surprising that your estrogen level is remaining high. As you lose weight, by proper diet and exercise, should you choose, your test would likely rise in any case AI or not. AI would just help.

As far as the doc sniffiing out your AI use, I dont see how. Unless your E2 level was nil, your test was thru the roof or maybe lipid profile (liver enzymes) were jacked up from too much AI. These all seem unlikely on .25mg/day of Arimidex.

I'd say, get a test, compare the new results to the last lab results and see where you're at.

 

[andy12345]

0.25mg EOD.....cough. I think I'm going to have to upgrade a little bit.