Hypothetical question

[Shelby]

If Dorian Yates trained like Shawn Ray did, and Shawn Ray trained like Dorian Yates did, how much different do you think their physiques would have been?

 

[rippedyearround]

I believe the difference would be marginal.

Just like you can't change your vein patters, you can't change the way the muscles attach to the skeleton.

 

[matt1164]

imo yates would have looked alot better. shawn ray had one of my fav phyiques ever.

 

[BigNJ]

Mathematically, that would be impossible.

 

[pesty4077]

I don't think the training comes into play as much as DIET and genetics.

 

[soloartist56]

I think they would look exactly the same except they took a different pathway(training philosophy) of getting to their desired physique

 

[Shelby]

Some good input from a friend:

"Well unfortunately this is a question that cannot be answered by training alone. It's multifactorial. Do we assume dietary, supplemental, ergogenic aid, rest/recovery, and last but not least physiological/DNA response to stressors the same for each? We can't assume that. So this question cannot be answered with yes or no. I will say that with heavier, higher intensity resistance training type IIx fiber is recruited predominantly. Type II fiber has a substantial greater ability for hypertrophy than type I. That doesn't mean type I cannot hypertrophy. But not nearly to the same extent. So this is why having heavier movements, lower volume apart of ones training regiment would be progressive to the goal of hypertrophy. But along with higher volume resistance training the stimulus of type I and type IIab which are hybrids of type II that have higher oxidative abilities than type IIx would have a larger cross sectional area than just strength trainings influence on type IIx alone."

 

[matt1164]

Some good input from a friend:

"Well unfortunately this is a question that cannot be answered by training alone. It's multifactorial. Do we assume dietary, supplemental, ergogenic aid, rest/recovery, and last but not least physiological/DNA response to stressors the same for each? We can't assume that. So this question cannot be answered with yes or no. I will say that with heavier, higher intensity resistance training type IIx fiber is recruited predominantly. Type II fiber has a substantial greater ability for hypertrophy than type I. That doesn't mean type I cannot hypertrophy. But not nearly to the same extent. So this is why having heavier movements, lower volume apart of ones training regiment would be progressive to the goal of hypertrophy. But along with higher volume resistance training the stimulus of type I and type IIab which are hybrids of type II that have higher oxidative abilities than type IIx would have a larger cross sectional area than just strength trainings influence on type IIx alone."

I'm sure he's smarter than me but isn't he overthinking this a little bit?

 

[Shelby]

I'm sure he's smarter than me but isn't he overthinking this a little bit?

If you're comparing it to your initial response, then I would say yes.

 

[Jeremy24]

If Dorian Yates trained like Shawn Ray did, and Shawn Ray trained like Dorian Yates did, how much different do you think their physiques would have been?

I believe that in the spectrum of things they would have looked about the same. I do believe that volume does add a roundish look to the muscle and heavy weights with intensity give a dense look. But for the most part their genetics dictated what they looked like.

I myself have seen increased results from volume style training with intensity mixed into it.

 

[concreteguy]

I.M.O hit always wins the size contest for exactly the reasons you stated. "if your body can take it".
I'm sure Dorian, given Shawn's genetics would have made for a white version of Ronnie. But like you said it's all imaginary..........
What if we gave him Kia's genetics? BAM! and what if Dorian wore red posting slippers like Kia and stood on his head? Man we could have fun with this one.....lol

CG

 

[MR. BMJ]

Oh boy....take what I say with a grain of salt on this.

I think shawn would have been larger, assuming he ate like Dorian did too. Dorian, I don't think would have had quite as much mass, but he may not have had to deal with injuries either. I think DoggCrapp mentioned here awhile back, that once Shawn reached a certain size/weight, he never progressed much past that for most of his career. Makes you wonder what would have happened had he pushed the envelope on his training ala Dorian style.

I'll say this, if this is low/high volume matter, I try not to choose one over the other, but instead prefer the best of both worlds at times throughout the year. Some bodyparts respond better than others to certain volume protocols.

I can't say I know much about Shawn's training either, outside of what was posted in the mags and on his ESPN TV show....which it never appeared he trained heavy and balls to the wall like Dorian. SO I can't say much on this if he did train differently behind the scenes.

 

[Jeremy24]

Oh boy....take what I say with a grain of salt on this.

I think shawn would have been larger, assuming he ate like Dorian did too. Dorian, I don't think would have had quite as much mass, but he may not have had to deal with injuries either. I think DoggCrapp mentioned here awhile back, that once Shawn reached a certain size/weight, he never progressed much past that for most of his career. Makes you wonder what would have happened had he pushed the envelope on his training ala Dorian style.

I'll say this, if this is low/high volume matter, I try not to choose one over the other, but instead prefer the best of both worlds at times throughout the year. Some bodyparts respond better than others to certain volume protocols.

I can't say I know much about Shawn's training either, outside of what was posted in the mags and on his ESPN TV show....which it never appeared he trained heavy and balls to the wall like Dorian. SO I can't say much on this if he did train differently behind the scenes.

I agree with ur best of both worlds statements. I train with a decent amount of volume and take a lot of sets to complete failure. Except on the secondary days were im going for the sake of pumping bllod into the muscle

 

[Ehren]

So Shelby, you're friend's opinion is that given all other factors he listed being equal, Shawn Ray would have been bigger training like Dorian?

Or that mixing mostly HIT with some High volume periods would have been best for both Dorian and Shawn Ray?

 

[Shelby]

So Shelby, you're friend's opinion is that given all other factors he listed being equal, Shawn Ray would have been bigger training like Dorian?

Or that mixing mostly HIT with some High volume periods would have been best for both Dorian and Shawn Ray?

My assumption is the latter

 

[Cornelius]

Yates would still have achieved a huge size and done just as well.
This is because he would have still kept logs and been systematic about the process. This is more important than actual number of sets.

Shawn would have blown his pec out early on and never have become great.

JMO obviously!

 

[Bigd50]

This is the way I look at it. Dorian and Ronnie Coleman lifted hard and heavy and we all know how many Mr. Olympia's they won. Shawn Ray and Flex Wheeler lifted the way they did and probably had better genetics and we see how many Mr. O's they won so............putting your bias a side for your favorite guys draw your own conclusions.

 

[jayl19]

I don't it matters how you train as long as you lift heavy and train hard, u still lift heavy when training for volume

Would jay cutler and phill Heath be thicker and bigger if they stop volume training and train like Dorian?

 

[Cito33189]

Its all Drugs.

 

[sma]

WHat if your first exercise is HIT type beat the log book then you go into rep drops 15, 12, 10, 8, then on to 3 sets of 15 to totally get the full spectrum while not frying it?