Lipid Question

[VakarianSK]

So I have two sets of lipids. Both were taken while running the following plus supplements like tudca, citrus bergamont, pepzin gi, multis, niacin etc... Is there any reason to worry about a low HDL considering that my ldl is also so low? Would introducing a low dose of ezetimibe like 5-10mg daily be something to look into?

weekly:
300 primo e
300 test e

daily:
nebivolol 5mg
telmisartan 40mg
hydrochlorothiazide 12.5mg
cialis 5mg
10IU hgh
20IU lantus
1g carnatine
200mg glutathione
500mcg b12

Diet is mostly turkey breast or chicken breast, white rice, sauerkraut, psyllium husk, oats for the first meal, whey/casein protein powder, and 200-300g of vegetables in the last meal. Very low fat with the only fats coming from trace fats in the meat and 10g fish oil plus 15g macadamia nut oil.

I am very active averaging 30-40k steps a day plus two training sessions, one in the morning and a shorter one in the afternoon.

 

[Fleezy]

Have you tried punching them?

 

[Zamun]

I remember reading from a few different sources HDL isn’t a concern really. You don’t want high trigs/LDL which yours look really good.

 

[VakarianSK]

I remember reading from a few different sources HDL isn’t a concern really. You don’t want high trigs/LDL which yours look really good.

I have read the same but wanted to check in and get others opinions. Iirc, I think ApoB and ApoA1 are better indicators. But seeing my hdl so low just kind of concerned me a little. It has always been low though even when I was just on trt of 200-250mg a week.

 

[Reno911]

HDL isn't great bit your 3.3 ratio is pretty solid.

Ezetimibe will only drop your LDL so I don't think that's necessary. A 37 LDL is pretty damn low. (maybe even too low) No need to go any lower.

I bet your estradiol is too low causing a low HDL. Your best bet to increase HDL is to drop or lower the primo dose or increase Test or add something that will aromatize such as Deca or NPP.

The other more controversial option would be to add 20mg of Cardarine daily. That should give your 6-10 points or so.

 

[VakarianSK]

HDL isn't great bit your 3.3 ratio is pretty solid.

Ezetimibe will only drop your LDL so I don't think that's necessary. A 37 LDL is pretty damn low. (maybe even too low) No need to go any lower.

I bet your estradiol is too low causing a low HDL. Your best bet to increase HDL is to drop or lower the primo dose or increase Test or add something that will aromatize such as Deca or NPP.

The other more controversial option would be to add 20mg of Cardarine daily. That should give your 6-10 points or so.

Surprisingly my estrodial is at a 43 with the given dosages. I just had it checked last week. And I have had a few people recommend cardarine but with the risk for cancer I would not want to try it especially since I am running a higher dose of hgh.

 

[buck]

I would be more worried about having all levels that low. But i am more interested in what will get me the best longevity and not just about what will be best for my heart.

 

[EricJ123]

In my experience with Ezetimibe it lowered my LDL but did not change my HDL. I've only read about it briefly on forums but Niacin has been mentioned about increasing HDL. Definitely do you own research on that though.

 

[VakarianSK]

In my experience with Ezetimibe it lowered my LDL but did not change my HDL. I've only read about it briefly on forums but Niacin has been mentioned about increasing HDL. Definitely do you own research on that though.

Already using niacin at 1g a day. But good suggestion.

 

[Stewie]

Increasing your fats may be worthwhile.

 

[juiceball44]

You can try adding eggs or avocado to your diet. Another supplement that “may” raise hdl is citrus bergamot

 

[bbxtreme]

So I have two sets of lipids. Both were taken while running the following plus supplements like tudca, citrus bergamont, pepzin gi, multis, niacin etc... Is there any reason to worry about a low HDL considering that my ldl is also so low? Would introducing a low dose of ezetimibe like 5-10mg daily be something to look into?

weekly:
300 primo e
300 test e

daily:
nebivolol 5mg
telmisartan 40mg
hydrochlorothiazide 12.5mg
cialis 5mg
10IU hgh
20IU lantus
1g carnatine
200mg glutathione
500mcg b12

Diet is mostly turkey breast or chicken breast, white rice, sauerkraut, psyllium husk, oats for the first meal, whey/casein protein powder, and 200-300g of vegetables in the last meal. Very low fat with the only fats coming from trace fats in the meat and 10g fish oil plus 15g macadamia nut oil.

I am very active averaging 30-40k steps a day plus two training sessions, one in the morning and a shorter one in the afternoon.

View attachment 190480

Get 3-6g of omega 3’s daily. It’s rare medications raise HDL. That comes from essential and healthy fats.

Just out of personal curiosity why are you running 20 units of lantus daily and no short acting insulin?

 

[VakarianSK]

After doing a lot of research on this the conclusion I came to is the following.

Ldl is bad cholesterol that can build up in your body. This build up is known as plaque which is what leads to health problems like heart disease and stroke. With this is mind the only reason ldl is bad is because it gets converted to plaque. If it did not have the potential to turn into plaque, then ldl would not matter.

Hdl is good cholesterol but all it does is take the ldl and send it to the liver. The liver then flushes the ldl from you body. So hdl is basically a transporter and the liver is what does the job of removing the ldl.

Recent publications suggest that plaque stabilization occurs when LDL-C is below 70 mg/dL, but plaque regression will not occur until LDL is below 50 mg/dL. Regression means a return to a former or less developed state. So, if ldl is below 50 it would make sense that it cannot turn into plaque. And if it cannot turn into plaque then there is no problem with cholesterol levels meaning that hdl in theory does not matter.

https://www.cdc.gov/cholesterol/ldl_hdl.htm

https://www.consultant360.com/articles/low-density-lipoprotein-cholesterol-how-low-should-you-go-and-what-about-safety#:~:text=Recent%20publications%20suggest%20that%20plaque%20stabilization%20occurs%20when%20LDL%2DC%20is%20below%2070%20mg/dL%2C%20but%20plaque%20regression%20will%20not%20occur%20until%20LDL%20is%20below%2050%20mg/dL.7

TLDR: From my understanding hdl does not matter if ldl is below 50.

 

[VakarianSK]

Get 3-6g of omega 3’s daily. It’s rare medications raise HDL. That comes from essential and healthy fats.

Just out of personal curiosity why are you running 20 units of lantus daily and no short acting insulin?

The 20IUs of lantus is what I came to after trial and error. After introducing the GH at 10IU my BG level increased and since I consume a lot of carbohydrats it was always elevated despite having an A1C of 4.9. 20IUs of lantus gives me a fasting BG level in the low 80s.

Also I do take berberine as well.

I do use short acting around workouts but its not a constant number. So for example one day I might use only 3IU and one day I might use 5IU so I did not bother to add it since it can very.

 

[luki7788]

The 20IUs of lantus is what I came to after trial and error. After introducing the GH at 10IU my BG level increased and since I consume a lot of carbohydrats it was always elevated despite having an A1C of 4.9. 20IUs of lantus gives me a fasting BG level in the low 80s.

Also I do take berberine as well.

I do use short acting around workouts but its not a constant number. So for example one day I might use only 3IU and one day I might use 5IU so I did not bother to add it since it can very.

this is only masking the problems - because your blood sugar is lower thanks to additional insulin, but your tissues are becoming more and more resistant to insulin - long insulin taken every day if you are not diabetic is a big mistake in my opinion

 

[VakarianSK]

this is only masking the problems - because your blood sugar is lower thanks to additional insulin, but your tissues are becoming more and more resistant to insulin - long insulin taken every day if you are not diabetic is a big mistake in my opinion

That is what I used to think as well and is a valid thought. But as long as my HbA1c is in check and I dont need to keep upping the insulin dose (unless carbohydrate intake increases or more gh is introduced) I personally do not see a problem with it.

 

[bbxtreme]

this is only masking the problems - because your blood sugar is lower thanks to additional insulin, but your tissues are becoming more and more resistant to insulin - long insulin taken every day if you are not diabetic is a big mistake in my opinion

I wasn’t going to say anything. It’s like beating a dead drum on here with it. I’ve gotten so many messages on here about guys who have done this asking for help once they stop using lantus.

Guys doing this are creating a huge future self problem that will set them back tremendously IMO and experience.

 

[VakarianSK]

I wasn’t going to say anything. It’s like beating a dead drum on here with it. I’ve gotten so many messages on here about guys who have done this asking for help once they stop using lantus.

Guys doing this are creating a huge future self problem that will set them back tremendously IMO and experience.

Even in the case where HbA1c is monitored and remains in check? Just curious.

 

[bbxtreme]

Even in the case where HbA1c is monitored and remains in check? Just curious.

Yes as you’re just masking the root issue. You will very likely end up having to use more. And the longer you’re on long acting insulin the more you’re telling your own body and pancreas that you need to make less of its own natural insulin. Very layman’s terms.

So when you come off your BG will be so stubborn to get down and manage and you’ll have to do a lot of work to reset your own insulin response. This can be 2-6 months of a process.

This is why most coaches and guys only use higher amounts of Humalog or fast acting insulin to mirror the body’s natural release and response. I have a full thread here on it in the Articles section.

Now can you use lantus if you’re pushing to be 250 pounds plus and a top level competitor to turn pro to offset lack of genetics? Yes. It’s very effective, but just remember you will come off at some point and take time to clean up your health.

If you’re not using it for that and just for BG management then you’re using a short solution to create a long term problem potentially.

Instead focus on diet, lifestyle, GDA’s, cardio, nutrient timing, and if that still isn’t enough use more short acting insulin and/or add Jardiance.

Again it all depends on your goals and your risk tolerance. Some guys just don’t think ahead IMO and get so pissed when they come off it bc it can be a set back.

 

[luki7788]

That is what I used to think as well and is a valid thought. But as long as my HbA1c is in check and I dont need to keep upping the insulin dose (unless carbohydrate intake increases or more gh is introduced) I personally do not see a problem with it.

A1c does not really show how good your tissues' sensitivity to insulin is, but how your sugar behaves over the next 4 months (the lifespan of a blood cell).

I'm absolutely not telling you to stop doing it - I just wrote my opinion