Lipid Question

[bbxtreme]

Even in the case where HbA1c is monitored and remains in check? Just curious.

Cruise through here when you have time. We cover all angles of it and users experiences:

All things insulin- my take, opinion and experience.

My take and experience on insulin What the hell do I know and why do I know it? I have been bodybuilding since I was 15 years old, a member here learning since 2007 and as my username implies am extreme and passionate about the sport. As a teenager I got 3 training/nutrition certifications to...

www.professionalmuscle.com

 

[Hatchet]

Very low totals are not that great, Read some studies where more heart related deaths from very low lipid levels.
Its a protectant...

 

[luki7788]

Very low totals are not that great, Read some studies where more heart related deaths from very low lipid levels.
Its a protectant...

I agree - having such a low cholesterol level is definitely not any healthier than having a high cholesterol level. People forget that cholesterol participates in many important processes, such as being a component of nerve cell membranes and being a precursor of vitamin. d3 and many others that can be replaced for a long time

 

[VakarianSK]

Yes as you’re just masking the root issue. You will very likely end up having to use more. And the longer you’re on long acting insulin the more you’re telling your own body and pancreas that you need to make less of its own natural insulin. Very layman’s terms.

So when you come off your BG will be so stubborn to get down and manage and you’ll have to do a lot of work to reset your own insulin response. This can be 2-6 months of a process.

This is why most coaches and guys only use higher amounts of Humalog or fast acting insulin to mirror the body’s natural release and response. I have a full thread here on it in the Articles section.

Now can you use lantus if you’re pushing to be 250 pounds plus and a top level competitor to turn pro to offset lack of genetics? Yes. It’s very effective, but just remember you will come off at some point and take time to clean up your health.

If you’re not using it for that and just for BG management then you’re using a short solution to create a long term problem potentially.

Instead focus on diet, lifestyle, GDA’s, cardio, nutrient timing, and if that still isn’t enough use more short acting insulin and/or add Jardiance.

Again it all depends on your goals and your risk tolerance. Some guys just don’t think ahead IMO and get so pissed when they come off it bc it can be a set back.

Very informative and thanks. I have looked into Jaurdience and have been doing a lot of research on it. And I have also thought about humalog instead of lantus but at this point I like the lantus because it always keeps my bg low at all times (I know masking the issue).

Also I have read through your insulin thread front to back and there is a lot of valuable information in there.

I am under the opinion that unlike testosterone insulin will only be down regulated in the presence of exogenous insulin. Meaning once you stop insulin your body quickly returns to normal production of it's own insulin (insulin does not cause insulin resistance, diet and lifestyle do). I believe you do not agree with a lot of John Jewett and there are some things I do not agree with him on as well, but when it comes to how insulin resistance occurs I do agree with him on that.

 

[VakarianSK]

A1c does not really show how good your tissues' sensitivity to insulin is, but how your sugar behaves over the next 4 months (the lifespan of a blood cell).

I'm absolutely not telling you to stop doing it - I just wrote my opinion

Your opinions are always appreciated.

 

[VakarianSK]

I agree - having such a low cholesterol level is definitely not any healthier than having a high cholesterol level. People forget that cholesterol participates in many important processes, such as being a component of nerve cell membranes and being a precursor of vitamin. d3 and many others that can be replaced for a long time

What would you say an optimal total cholesterol level would be? Most references ranges do not give a lower limit so it's hard to determine an optimal level.

 

[bbxtreme]

Very informative and thanks. I have looked into Jaurdience and have been doing a lot of research on it. And I have also thought about humalog instead of lantus but at this point I like the lantus because it always keeps my bg low at all times (I know masking the issue).

Also I have read through your insulin thread front to back and there is a lot of valuable information in there.

I am under the opinion that unlike testosterone insulin will only be down regulated in the presence of exogenous insulin. Meaning once you stop insulin your body quickly returns to normal production of it's own insulin (insulin does not cause insulin resistance, diet and lifestyle do). I believe you do not agree with a lot of John Jewett and there are some things I do not agree with him on as well, but when it comes to how insulin resistance occurs I do agree with him on that.

It eventually will return to normal, yes. Unless you’re a type 1 diabetic which you’re not. It’s just a hell of a process and time lost IMO.

I think you would get more from using more short acting insulin than lantus, but either way will absolutely work. Don’t want to tell guys it doesn’t because it absolutely does and can be navigated.

Milos for example won’t touch it as he and I share a similar stance on it. But def comes down to goals, preference and risk tolerance. Do what works for you. Sounds like you know what’s on the other side which is all I want guys to be aware of. I’ve seen coaches having guys doing it and not telling them what happens when they come off and that’s just irresponsible IMO.

Comes back to my whole “responsible usage” belief and thread.

 

[luki7788]

What would you say an optimal total cholesterol level would be? Most references ranges do not give a lower limit so it's hard to determine an optimal level.

I am not an oracle and I am not a doctor or scientist to take my opinion as a determinant, but I think that you should simply keep all parameters as close to the standards as possible.

 

[luki7788]

Very informative and thanks. I have looked into Jaurdience and have been doing a lot of research on it. And I have also thought about humalog instead of lantus but at this point I like the lantus because it always keeps my bg low at all times (I know masking the issue).

Also I have read through your insulin thread front to back and there is a lot of valuable information in there.

I am under the opinion that unlike testosterone insulin will only be down regulated in the presence of exogenous insulin. Meaning once you stop insulin your body quickly returns to normal production of it's own insulin (insulin does not cause insulin resistance, diet and lifestyle do). I believe you do not agree with a lot of John Jewett and there are some things I do not agree with him on as well, but when it comes to how insulin resistance occurs I do agree with him on that.

John is a very intelligent guy but when it comes to using Lantus I personally disagree - I would only use Lantus every day if I have pancreatitis - if you are healthy I would never use it that way

I think @bbxtreme is of a similar opinion

 

[bbxtreme]

John is a very intelligent guy but when it comes to using Lantus I personally disagree - I would only use Lantus every day if I have pancreatitis - if you are healthy I would never use it that way

I think @bbxtreme is of a similar opinion

agree. Or type one diabetes such as my wife. Even then we strive to keep her using more Novolog than Basaglar. 12 units at night is the max. Novolog she tries to limit to 25-30 units per day.

I’ve just given up on trying to help guys on the subject.

My favorite four words in life are- “I told you so”.

 

[VakarianSK]

Very much appreciate the responses espcecially from @bbxtreme and @luki7788. Although I may disagree on somethings and will just have to learn through trial and error (whether I am wrong or right) it's always good to continue with input from others.

 

[null88]

primo might be lowering your HDL.

 

[luki7788]

primo might be lowering your HDL.

I sincerely doubt that such a low dose would cause its reduction, but in general I would rather see the problem in the extremely low fat intake.

If he want to continue eating very low fat, do 1-2 days a week (days off) where the carbohydrates will be much lower but the fats will be quite high, but only the good ones like whole eggs, avocado, almonds or walnuts, salmon or olive oil - then it will balance everything

 

[VakarianSK]

I sincerely doubt that such a low dose would cause its reduction, but in general I would rather see the problem in the extremely low fat intake.

If he want to continue eating very low fat, do 1-2 days a week (days off) where the carbohydrates will be much lower but the fats will be quite high, but only the good ones like whole eggs, avocado, almonds or walnuts, salmon or olive oil - then it will balance everything

As I mentioned below based on my research I'm not to concerned with the levels at the moment anymore since I cannot find a lot of hard evidence showing negative health outcomes when all cholesterol markers are this low.

After doing a lot of research on this the conclusion I came to is the following.

Ldl is bad cholesterol that can build up in your body. This build up is known as plaque which is what leads to health problems like heart disease and stroke. With this is mind the only reason ldl is bad is because it gets converted to plaque. If it did not have the potential to turn into plaque, then ldl would not matter.

Hdl is good cholesterol but all it does is take the ldl and send it to the liver. The liver then flushes the ldl from you body. So hdl is basically a transporter and the liver is what does the job of removing the ldl.

Recent publications suggest that plaque stabilization occurs when LDL-C is below 70 mg/dL, but plaque regression will not occur until LDL is below 50 mg/dL. Regression means a return to a former or less developed state. So, if ldl is below 50 it would make sense that it cannot turn into plaque. And if it cannot turn into plaque then there is no problem with cholesterol levels meaning that hdl in theory does not matter.

https://www.cdc.gov/cholesterol/ldl_hdl.htm

https://www.consultant360.com/articles/low-density-lipoprotein-cholesterol-how-low-should-you-go-and-what-about-safety#:~:text=Recent%20publications%20suggest%20that%20plaque%20stabilization%20occurs%20when%20LDL%2DC%20is%20below%2070%20mg/dL%2C%20but%20plaque%20regression%20will%20not%20occur%20until%20LDL%20is%20below%2050%20mg/dL.7

TLDR: From my understanding hdl does not matter if ldl is below 50.

You are 100% correct though, all my low levels are directly related to my very low fat intake (something I have been trying out).

I have a cardiologist appointment at the end of this month and I will be discussing these results with him to see what he says. I will definitely keep your advice in mind. If these results are starting to become a concern I will do as you said and start by adding 10g additional of macadamia nut oil. And reassess after pulling labs again.

 

[luki7788]

As I mentioned below based on my research I'm not to concerned with the levels at the moment anymore since I cannot find a lot of hard evidence showing negative health outcomes when all cholesterol markers are this low.


You are 100% correct though, all my low levels are directly related to my very low fat intake (something I have been trying out).

I have a cardiologist appointment at the end of this month and I will be discussing these results with him to see what he says. I will definitely keep your advice in mind. If these results are starting to become a concern I will do as you said and start by adding 10g additional of macadamia nut oil. And reassess after pulling labs again.

ldl below 70 I would guess a single digit percentage of people around the world have it lol

 

[Stewie]

Your allelotype of APOE gene may be 2/2 or 2/? given your lowish lipoproteins. There's purposed cognitive benefits to this particular genotype.

In the light of it, I'd still up good healthy fats.

 

[bbxtreme]

As I mentioned below based on my research I'm not to concerned with the levels at the moment anymore since I cannot find a lot of hard evidence showing negative health outcomes when all cholesterol markers are this low.


You are 100% correct though, all my low levels are directly related to my very low fat intake (something I have been trying out).

I have a cardiologist appointment at the end of this month and I will be discussing these results with him to see what he says. I will definitely keep your advice in mind. If these results are starting to become a concern I will do as you said and start by adding 10g additional of macadamia nut oil. And reassess after pulling labs again.

I would up your healthy fats and fish oil. Rules of thumb IMO and experience-

- HDL as high as you can keep it.
- Never let LDL be more than 2:1 to HDL
- LDL 70 and 40 if you have risk of cardiac issues

Every person is different, but you want to keep inflammation down and HDL up as high as you can. I’m sure your cardiologist will agree.

 

[Oldwhitedude]

Haven't read any other replies but have you tried the obvious thing, more fiber?

Aiming to work up to 50g of fiber a day will have a robust effect on cholesterol. Offers a lot of benefits for bodybuilders and is often forgotten.

 

[luki7788]

Haven't read any other replies but have you tried the obvious thing, more fiber?

Aiming to work up to 50g of fiber a day will have a robust effect on cholesterol. Offers a lot of benefits for bodybuilders and is often forgotten.

50g of fiber...man just don't forget to add it so he can put a diaper on his ass right away because his ass will explode from this amount

 

[juicenstein]

So I have two sets of lipids. Both were taken while running the following plus supplements like tudca, citrus bergamont, pepzin gi, multis, niacin etc... Is there any reason to worry about a low HDL considering that my ldl is also so low? Would introducing a low dose of ezetimibe like 5-10mg daily be something to look into?

weekly:
300 primo e
300 test e

daily:
nebivolol 5mg
telmisartan 40mg
hydrochlorothiazide 12.5mg
cialis 5mg
10IU hgh
20IU lantus
1g carnatine
200mg glutathione
500mcg b12

Diet is mostly turkey breast or chicken breast, white rice, sauerkraut, psyllium husk, oats for the first meal, whey/casein protein powder, and 200-300g of vegetables in the last meal. Very low fat with the only fats coming from trace fats in the meat and 10g fish oil plus 15g macadamia nut oil.

I am very active averaging 30-40k steps a day plus two training sessions, one in the morning and a shorter one in the afternoon.

View attachment 190480

HDL is like the sanitation truck picking up the garbage and bringing it to the dump..So HDL does the same to the arteries as it cleans and takes away the waxy mess...2.5mg 3x a week of crestor will do wonders for HDL...
I know the dose is tiny but it will work..Try it and give it 2 months and recheck ..Multiple I gave this regimen all worked wonders including myself ...Its such a baby dose you wont even know u are on it ..