Insulin and BGS

[Magnum]

Here's something that I posted a couple of years ago on another board that I thought you guys might find interesting. It's pretty much in laymans terms about my thoughts on insulin usage.

I believe that insulin alone is responsible for the "big gut syndrome" that we are seeing on more and more of the bbers and not GH. GH has been out for years and I have never seen anyone get the BGS from just GH alone. We all know that insulin is a very powerful hormone and it that it has duel purposes. One of the bad things that insulin does is promote fat storage. When promoting fat storage it does it indiscriminatley, meaning that fat will be stored everywhere. It will be stored subcutaneously, within the muscle itself (more on that later) and viscerally.

As far as the BGS, this I believe is where the problem lies. Insulin promotes visceral fat storage throughout the body. Around the organs and the abdominal cavity. This visceral fat is what makes the abs protrude. OK, I know that some will ask, then why isn't the fat gone by show time, especially since these guys are so lean. Visceral fat is the last to go. Your body holds on to this fat until near death.

Have you ever noticed someone who has a huge gut but they can't seem to pinch anyfat around their waist? I'm not talking about bbers, just your normal average everyday junk carb eater. They look like they have a watermellon in their stomach. (kinda like some guys do on stage) These people have eaten so much sugar and carbs and overly stimulated their own pancreas throughout their lifetime that they have stored an enormous amount of visceral fat beind the abdominal wall. This does not happen too everyone but it does happen to a large majority of guys.

Has anyone else noticed that todays guys seem to lack the really striated look of yesteryear? The freaky separation also seems to be blurred just a bit too. Remember earlier when I said that fat can be stored in the muscle itself? Well, that's great when you want to buy a tender steak but not when your getting ready for a show. Fat will be marbled throughout the meat (muscle) ruining this all important look on contest day.

I personally think that there is a very limited use for insulin in bb. The above is just a short writing about my opinion and theories on insulin. Hope some of you found it interesting.

 

[Eatbig2getbig]

Magnum knows his stuff!

Magnum..I think that you hit the nail on the head with you're insulin theory and BGS. Good post!!!

 

[KillerStack]

At what kind of dosages are these effects seen? You mentioned in the other thread that 60 units a day was common. One big name guru supposedly only advocates 6-8 units 3x per day, 1-2 days a week max. BS?

I think high GH dosages contribute to visceral fat in the same way as insulin. It causes insulin resistance and high insulin levels = fat is stored viscerally.
Testosterone also contributes to visceral fat to my knowledge.

 

[KillerStack]

OK, I know that some will ask, then why isn't the fat gone by show time, especially since these guys are so lean. Visceral fat is the last to go. Your body holds on to this fat until near death.

From what I've read visceral fat is the first to go on a diet actually. Maybe that doesn't apply when you are on high dosages of test, GH and insulin.

 

[edge250]

ok..........if insulin is the cause of BGS in bodybuilders lets go back in time............TIM BELKNAP and diabetic pro and huge in his time, massive legs, absolutely no gut..........explain.............

 

[BuffD]

ok..........if insulin is the cause of BGS in bodybuilders lets go back in time............TIM BELKNAP and diabetic pro and huge in his time, massive legs, absolutely no gut..........explain.............

Probably because his body produced no insulin so he had to take it. The Pros of today take extra that they don't need because their body produces it. Tim had no choice as he is a diabetic so if only used what was needed because of what he ate it would really be the same as a non diabetic.

 

[Magnum]

Probably because his body produced no insulin so he had to take it. The Pros of today take extra that they don't need because their body produces it. Tim had no choice as he is a diabetic so if only used what was needed because of what he ate it would really be the same as a non diabetic.

This pretty much explains it. I wouldn't say that Tim had no gut. I've seen some pics of him in the off season where his gut was pretty pronounced. I also doubt that Tim takes as much insulin as someone of the pros do and I also doubt Tim was slamming in 100 grams of dextrose each time he took his insulin. His stomach was pretty flat for his shows though, but I would also think that his insulin intake would be lower from dieting. Tim had a tendnecy to over diet for his shows.

 

[edge250]

i was always under the impression tim manipulated his insulin use to add his size much like a non diabetic would. also what bodybuilder does not have somewhat of an abdominal distention in the offseason, food alone causes that, take a good #2 and its gone for awhile.

 

[Magnum]

also what bodybuilder does not have somewhat of an abdominal distention in the offseason, food alone causes that, take a good #2 and its gone for awhile.

The one who doesn't abuse carbs in the offseason. Most people, not just BB eat way too many carbs. This is why a large majority of people are turning turn into type 2 diabetics in this country. Carbs do not build muscle and don't give me this "carbs spare protein baloney". Actually, most peope who abuse carbs would be better off to use insulin. At least they would be taking a load off their pancrease.

 

[BigBoyJ]

Carbs do not build muscle and don't give me this "carbs spare protein baloney".

Well, I think carbs do help build muscle. Maybe not directly, but there is definitely at least an indirect effect on muscle growth, whether it's an increase in anabolism or a decrease in catabolism. I don't see how anyone could think that carbs play no part in muscle growth.

 

[Magnum]

Well, I think carbs do help build muscle. Maybe not directly, but there is definitely at least an indirect effect on muscle growth, whether it's an increase in anabolism or a decrease in catabolism. I don't see how anyone could think that carbs play no part in muscle growth.

I'm not trying to be a smartass seriously but please explain how they contribute to muscle growth.

 

[Crowler]

The one who doesn't abuse carbs in the offseason. Most people, not just BB eat way too many carbs. This is why a large majority of people are turning turn into type 2 diabetics in this country. Carbs do not build muscle and don't give me this "carbs spare protein baloney". Actually, most peope who abuse carbs would be better off to use insulin. At least they would be taking a load off their pancrease.

Phil I HOPE you are paying attention. No more saying you can't build muscle unless you are going high carb


CROWLER

 

[BuffD]

The one who doesn't abuse carbs in the offseason. Most people, not just BB eat way too many carbs. This is why a large majority of people are turning turn into type 2 diabetics in this country. Carbs do not build muscle and don't give me this "carbs spare protein baloney". Actually, most peope who abuse carbs would be better off to use insulin. At least they would be taking a load off their pancrease.

I don't know if I really agree that eating alot of carbs will cause the distended guts we see. Look at some of the worst guts out there Dave Palumbo, Gregg Kovacs, Ronnies was quite large and they all eat massive amounts of protein. Now take Cutler he eats a huge amount of carbs in the offseason and even alot when dieting. I'll try to find some other examples as well. I know my fiance had a bit of distension in 04 when she did the USA's and she had few carbs and a ton of protein. In 05 her nutritionist cut her protein way down and increased her carbs and it was gone (she could even do a vaccuum with her stomach). Would be interesting to see a true study on this.

 

[Magnum]

I don't know if I really agree that eating alot of carbs will cause the distended guts we see. Look at some of the worst guts out there Dave Palumbo, Gregg Kovacs, Ronnies was quite large and they all eat massive amounts of protein. Now take Cutler he eats a huge amount of carbs in the offseason and even alot when dieting. I'll try to find some other examples as well. I know my fiance had a bit of distension in 04 when she did the USA's and she had few carbs and a ton of protein. In 05 her nutritionist cut her protein way down and increased her carbs and it was gone (she could even do a vaccuum with her stomach). Would be interesting to see a true study on this.

The 3 guys you mention all use insulin.

 

[BuffD]

The 3 guys you mention all use insulin.

So you think it's more of a product of Insulin rather than the high protein or carbs? I'm sure Jay uses Slin as well so why would he not get the gut like the other 3? The one thing I wanna make sure of is that I don't do anything to cause me to ever get it. There are so many theories on what causes it.

 

[Magnum]

So you think it's more of a product of Insulin rather than the high protein or carbs? I'm sure Jay uses Slin as well so why would he not get the gut like the other 3? The one thing I wanna make sure of is that I don't do anything to cause me to ever get it. There are so many theories on what causes it.

I certainly think so. Jay's gut looked pretty big this year. Big guts are a product of using (abusing) insulin and eating too many carbs over long periods of time.

 

[BigWilly]

What about a high intake of low GI carbs?

 

[healthfreak79]

The one who doesn't abuse carbs in the offseason. Most people, not just BB eat way too many carbs. This is why a large majority of people are turning turn into type 2 diabetics in this country. Carbs do not build muscle and don't give me this "carbs spare protein baloney". Actually, most peope who abuse carbs would be better off to use insulin. At least they would be taking a load off their pancrease.

So how many carbs would you suggest for a growing bodybuilder. Or should one just eat mostly protein and maybe like 200g of carbs per day?

 

[Magnum]

What about a high intake of low GI carbs?

That would be a safer bet if you where wanting to control your insulin levels, but it also depends on what you mean by high intake.

I feel the need to explain myself a little here. I am not against carbs and I also realize that are many differnet ways to get big and ripped as far as diet goes. I just think that carbs are least important when it comes to building muscle. If I took protein completley out of your diet you die, same with fat, but with carbs you can still live a healthy life.

I have assisted many peolple thru out the years getting ready for contests and I personally prefer to keep carb intake very low. (40 grams pre day). I have NEVER had anyone lose size while dieting for a show. I have even had some gain muscle. There will be some guys who disagree and say that they would lose a lot of size being on that type of diet. I have not found one yet who did. You have to remember that when someone comes to me who has been eating 500-1000 grams of carbs per day and cuts way down they are going to lose a good 10-15 pounds very quickly. Almost all of this is water. Plus, they go thru a period of adjustment (usually 2 weeks) where the body regulates water retention, energy levels, glycogen storage, ect.

I do recommend some carbs in the off season, both fiberous and low GI. Keeping a close watch on them will allow you to gain muscle and keep your BF levels low. I do not like to see guys get fat during the off season. It serves no purpose!!! I don't feel that one needs to eats mega amounts of needless food to grow. Eating clean in the off season 6-7 meals per day and a certain amount of variety is best. The occasional junk day is also recommended, but not manditory.

People wonder why guys physiques have changed so drastically in the last few years. Almost no one have a tiny waist anymore. You never saw any one get fat and bloated in the off season years ago. I could be wrong, but I don't recall ever seeing a pic of anyone from the 70's, 80's or early 90's in that kind of off season shape that you see these guys in today. Can you imagine Arnold, Lee Haney, Vince Taylor or any off those guys at a fat 280? They were smart about what they did in the off season and it showed come contest day. I guess I'll quit here before this gets book length.

 

[BigWilly]

^I also don't think many guys took off season photos back in the day...you see them at peak condition, mostly.

There is no way you could get me ready for a show on 40g carbs/day....no way. I'm glad you've had success with your practices, but it wouldn't work for me...I've tried it.

I did 90% of my last prep on at least 300g/carb per day...higher at the beginning, lower at the end. And when I go under 100g carbs I shrink like crazy, I go flat and it's not good. I went to 50g/day for 4 days starting a week out from my show, my physique started going downhill fast and I almost didn't recover in time for the show, and I didn't come in at my potential. I will never carb deplete for a show again...but this is ME.

As far as off season, I don't go above 11-12% and this year I'll stay closer to 10%. I agree getting FAT in the off season serves no purpose.

BW