insulin, gluconeogenisis and SuperPump 250

[bigfatandugly]

i thought i'd start a thread regarding my deit as there seems to be alot of questions regarding insulin usage lately and how to effectively apply it.

for the past week now i have been using 10 i.u's of humulin-r IM4 times a day following a low carb protocol, low carb being less than 100 grams of carbs a day. insulin is not carb specific. it is calorie specific. if you have your carbs low enough and your protein high enough, gulconeogenisis will take care of the rest.

the only real problems i have encountered so far is a little bit of hypo that sometimes tries to creep up on me, but just downing a 50grm protien shake will take care of that.

the second problem, well not really a problem but more of an annoyance was the lack of pump i was experiencing thru my workout. i believe greatly in running the pump. if i can't feel it it isn't woking in my case, for my body. the fullness from a high carb/ high insulin protocol wasn't there eiter. to offset this i thought i'd try SuperPump 250. and it works. big time. even with 0 carbs in my body before i train the pumps are almost muscle tearing.

i have also found using a scoop of waxy maize post workout with creatine/.glutamine and taurine to be of benefit as well.

this protocol brings about a very different kind of 'full' feeling. it isnt the squishy, puffy kinda full feeling you get from a high carb run, but a more solid, very tensile kind of full. instead of feeling like your made of dough, you feel like your made of steel. anyone who has run something like this before, or has used waxy maize pre contest will know the feeling.

just thought i'd post my experiences regarding insulin, low carbs and how to maintain a good pum p and full feeling while running this protocol.

anyone reading this who has never used insulin before, please do not try this. you have to know your body and the way it reacts to the compund inside and out or you will get yourself in alot of trouble.

hope this helps anyone reading it, and i hope it may spark some good discussion on the safe use of insulin and different protocols that make it such an invaluable asset.

all the best

BFU

 

[haze324]

Did 8ius, along with SuperPump250 preWO and a carb drink during WO and felt a GREAT "pump". But somewhat of a soft pump like you said. I'll keep my carbs moderate to low for a few days and then try this on my high carb days and I really fill out. Look best the next morning, but the pump is great. I've been toying with ideas of using slin and keeping the carbs still somewhat moderate.

 

[2BIGFRED]

A lot of people seem to like to shoot slin IM on here do you think its better?

 

[bigfatandugly]

A lot of people seem to like to shoot slin IM on here do you think its better?

in my experience, when using humalog sub-q i went hypo quite a frequently. since switching to humulin-r IM i have yet to go low. i should have stated in my post i was using 10 i.u of huma 4x ed. sub-q, but was going hypo alot, so i tried the IM humulin protocol and it hasnt seen me go hypo since.

just my personal experience with it, not to say you'd have the same results- as you know different compounds affect us all differently.

 

[PUGTHUG]

Interesting

 

[mike1107]

did you avoid hypo by a protein only shake ?

why not to add a bit carbs in the pwo to avoid a neoglucognesis from proteins breakdown ?

 

[Godless]

did you avoid hypo by a protein only shake ?

why not to add a bit carbs in the pwo to avoid a neoglucognesis from proteins breakdown ?

Hey Mike..if I'm not mistaken, he wanted to induce gluconeogenesis so his body would manufacture glucose from fat...helping him to stay lean...it's something Palumbo has advocated in the past.

 

[bigfatandugly]

Godless said it mike, i want to induce gluconeogenisis, not avoid it.

idaelly running this type of diet you want to have carbs as close to 0 as possible, as well as fats. my carb intake is at close to 100 only for two reasons- taking in 400 grms of protein from isolate alone every day would be too costly, so i use a mix of isloate/whey, the whey contributing to the bulk of my carbs. protien intake for the day is 400 grams of protein from powder and 550 ish from chicken breast...
the waxy maize is use post workout has 40 grams of carbs. im using the maize as an experiment- since the maize bypasses the stomach and goes right to the intestines, i injest creatine/glutamine/taurine with it pwo to see if it'll carry these supplements with it. i also like the 'tight' feeling i get from it when running it low carb with insulin.

and yes, i avoid hypo from just a protien shake. i am afraid to say it cause i think some mighht try this not knowing thier bodies well enough- but i have avoided hypo in the past using 2 lifesavers candies- timing here is pretty key. the first urge you get when going low is to rip the doors off every cupboard in your house and start to eat. patience and knowing your body are the keys here- if you can head off going hypo early, cravings wont be so bad- for me years ago i found the deeper in to hypo i allowed myself to get the more uncontrollably i ate. i now know my body well enough to stop going low even before most symptoms appear.

thats why you have to know your body and the way it reacts to insulin really well before trying a diet similar to this or it'll be a total wash- you'll end up going hypo and overeat a ton of carbs thereby negating and gluconeogenic effect you'd otherwise benefit from.

BFU

 

[2BIGFRED]

I also switched to R because I know when I was using LOG I was going hypo also and was doing what you said eating more carbs then I wanted too.

 

[Godless]

IM...eh???

any info on onset and duration of IM slin use

I think sub-q "R" onset is 1/2 hour and duration is 6 hours if i'm not mistaken

 

[Meat_head]

BFU-

could you post your actual diet? Any gear being ran while on the slin protocol?

 

[bigfatandugly]

BFU-

could you post your actual diet? Any gear being ran while on the slin protocol?

sure meat head, no problem...

meal 1 10 i.u humulin-r
225 grams chicken breast
2 scoops protein with 5 g of glut/ taur/ crea.

meal 2 225 grams chicken breast
2 scoops protien w g/t/c

meal 3 pre train...10.i.u humulin-r
225 grm. chicken breast
2 scoops protien.
wait 45 minutes and then 1 1/2 scoops SuperPump 250

meal 4 post train....10.i.u humulin-r
40 grm waxy maize w glut/ taur/ crea.
wait 20 minutes then 225 grm. chicken breast
2 scoops pro.

meal 5- 1 hr after meal 4
225 grm. chicken breast
2 scoop pro. w g/t/c

meal 6 10 i.u humulin r
225 grm chicken breast
2 scoop pro. g/t/c

meal 7 225 grm chicken breast
2 sp. pro w g/t/c

this is pretty much it in a nutshell and all i have time for. i eat every two hours on the clock and if i am still awake after meal 7 i have a protein shake with glut/ taur/ crea.

i find there isnt much in the way of cravings following this as there really isnt much of a time period when your stomach is empty.

at times, depending how i feel post workout, i may have 3 cups of cooked oatmeal at that time, or sometimes even before i workout. any carbs i take in over and above what is written down here i will subtract and equal number of calories from protein, so if pwo i have my 3 cups of oatmeal, i'll just have the 2 scoops of protein and negate the chicken breast- its a nice change cause its alot of chicken- about $40 worth every 3-4 days.

i have found when i have given into my cravings, i fill out very quickly. one of the benefits of this diet, despite the amount of insulin your using, is i have found the amount of water i carry to be pretty minimal, but a breakdown and over carb consumption( read- a full blown, all out cheat meal) can easily add 5 or more pounds to my scale weight over nite. but the feeling of fullness is great while it lasts.
i find the next day getting back on the protocol will find the water gone in 48 hours usually, if not sooner. this is leading me to believe that despite needing gluconeogenesis for the most part, i am also benefiting greatly by upping my calories for that one day and then getting back on the diet. workouts the next day are phenominal and the pump is over and above what it normally is and its already retarded. something that feels this good cant be wrong, so im just going to listen to my body and feed it when it needs the calories.

all im running right now is 750 mg of sustanon. i only use test esters year round and only when im prepping or a show do i use compounds like deca, winnie, fina, etc etc. i have never run gh or igf, but from everything i have learned about it, i could only imagine how well a diet like this would work with these compounds. it would be scary. i am going to try it myself as i have yet to run gh/ igf and am very curious about it, its just the price has been keeping me away and availabiltiy as well.

hope this helps.

 

[n4dmoney]

Hey BigFat,

What kind of results are you getting from this regimen? I'm a big fan of low to no carbs but was never aware of using this type of diet with slin successfully without going hypo. Are you still able to add muscle with this regimen? Are you able to burn off excess fat due to gluconeogenisis?

Thanks for the info!

 

[mike1107]

ah ok sorry, I didn't see things under this angle

thanks

 

[bigfatandugly]

Hey BigFat,

What kind of results are you getting from this regimen? I'm a big fan of low to no carbs but was never aware of using this type of diet with slin successfully without going hypo. Are you still able to add muscle with this regimen? Are you able to burn off excess fat due to gluconeogenisis?

Thanks for the info!

the whole idea behind such a high insulin/high protein protocol is the fact that during its course, you'll only add predominantly lean muscle- there are no excess carbs in your system to turn to fat, and fats are kept at zero, so logically i think you can see where this leads.

i know L.Rea advocates a similar diet, but he insists on ketosis to run his protocol. he determines you can add about 2-3 pounds of lean in a 4 week period, which is significant. for me, to be in keto for 4 weeks is impossible. i dont see his logic in feeling you need complete ketogenisis for the diet to work optimally. i think you shortchange gains staying keto by not taking advantage of pwo insulin/waxy maize/ glut/crea/ taur administratrion. in the absence of carbs gluconeogenesis has to occur, but it still has to occur as well even if your carbs are at 50-100 grams. i dont believe its possible to run 40 i.u of insulin without going hypo on 50-100 grams of carbs unless it is working, therein lying the proof that total ketogenesis is unnecessary.

as for fat burning, im not running the protocol as a pre contest diet, this is a post contest trial im doing.therefore my cardio is only 30 minutes pwo and i am not using any thermogenics. i can well imagine this protocol being well versed for a pre contest protocol, if your calories can support the insulin usage necessary in the absence of carbohydrates.

hope this helps.

BFU