is Femara better than Aromasin?????

[amenselah]

found this post in another board..


Arimidex (anastrozole) (aromatase inhibitor)is a compound that can inhibit around 75% of estrogen conversion if taken properly. Someone on the board (I'm not sure who it was) said as a rule of thumb, use at least .25mg per 250mg of test per week...arimidex is also found in liquid forms like liquidex...Liquidex is anastrozole powder mixed with glycerin. There are a few different kinds of liquidex coming from different suppliers some are higher concentrations of arimidex per ml...others have added ingredients to enhance the absorbtion. Liquidex is much cheaper then arimidex in the tablet form....Studies have shown that arimidex decreases IGF-1 levels by around 18%

Femara (letrozole) is another compound that may be useful ...Femara is another aromatase inhibitor...that actually icreases IGF-1 levels by 24%...If used correctly, Femara can effectively inhibit about 80% of estrogen conversion. Femara also stimulates serum LH...I've yet to try femara, but I've heard that 1/2 a 2.5mg pill ed is an effective dose for moderate doses of test (I'm not sure about this...I'm just reporting what I heard.

Aromasin (exemestane) is in a class of it's own, it is a aromatase inactivator...It actually renders estrogen receptors useless. Instead of just inhibiting production, it cuts off production. Aromasin can effective prevent about 90-95% of estrogen conversion. A negative aspect of Aromasin is that it decreases IGF-1 levels by about 23-24%

Nolvadex is actually an anti-estrogen that can be useful if symtoms of gyno appear...A problem with nolvadex it supresses estrogen, but then when nolvadex use is discontinued, there is a rebound effect....if you need to use nolvadex, it's a good idea to run it until you start clomid therapy or add proviron after discontinuing use to off set the rebound. Nolvadex also decreases IGF-1 levels by about 25% so it will effect your gains to some extent.

Clomid is a weak anti-estrogen....it is better for the purposes of restoring natural test levels post cycle.

Proviron is a weak anti-estrogen and also a weak androgen...it can be helpful in preventing gyno. It doesn't compete with androgen receptors or lower IGF-1 levels...so it will not effect your gains. Proviron can also be helpful post cycle to boost libedo and improve the ability to get errections. Additionally, I've noticed that proviron puts me in a better mood post cycle...and it hardens muscles a bit. Not to mention, if take in low to moderate does in the am up waking, it does not effect htpa recovery. I'm a big supporter of proviron use both during and post cycle.

Also I must add Winstrol as an effective agent in combating progesterone related sides...Winstrol is very effective in preventing the conversion of progesterone while on deca durabolin....it is also somewhat effective in preventing the conversion or progesterone while using Fina...but not to the extent it does with deca because of the way fina binds to PR receptors.

RU-486 the controversial abortion pill may also be effective in blocking progesterone and as an anti-cortisol...because of the short half-life of the drug (20-30 hours) ed dosing is need. I've heard that 50-75mg ed is an effective dose...Aside from it being difficult to get, Ru-486 has a number of side effects that IMO outweigh the benefits. The first being that it hinders white blood cells and suppresses the immune system...another negative is that low cortisol can inhibit protein degradation and if taken at high doses and not tapered can shut down adrenals and ulimately kill you.

Lastly, there are a number of products that can help you prevent prolactin induced gyno. OTC drugs like Vitex (chasteberry) can help lower prolactin levels, but may cause an increase in progesterone. Bromocriptine can also lower prolactin but also reduces the bodys GH levels. There are a couple of other drugs that inhibit prolactin by raising dopamine levels....Deprenyl inhibits prolactin and improves depression...it also has been said to protect brain cells from free radical oxidation. L-Dopa and velvet bean (which actually contains L-Dopa) may also be helpful by similar means, they raise dopamine and inhibit prolactin. They also have been shown to raise GH levels and assist in burning fat.

 

[Dad]

Aromasin

Aromasin is aslo an aromatse inhibitor.

While I've not researched this exhaustively, I have read nothing that states it "renders estrogen receptors useless." A receptor is a protein configured in a specific way to bind a specific compound that can fit into its three-dimensional shape. To alter a receptor, a compound would somehow have to alter the 3-D shape of the receptor.

The medical literature lists Arimidex AND Aromasin as aromates inhibitors, meaning the interfere with the action of the aromatese enzyme - an enzyme that converts androgens to estrogens. They are both used for the same purpose - treatment of estrogen-sensitive breast cancers in post-menopausal women.

The PubMed site http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?
as well as the Physician's Desk Reference (PDR), and info from the manufacturer are the best sources of info for topics like this.

 

[xcelbeyond]

Read Pittbull's post at http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10564

It says that exemestane "INCREASES" IGF-1 by 28%.

Another big consideration (IMHO) that doesn't get mentioned is the effects of anti-e's on your lipid profile. Exemestane and Nolva actually improve your lipid profile where others make it much worse.

 

[Tman2002]

reply

When running test enth and adrol I was getting some puffy nips and discomfort. I tried nolva and femara and it didnt seem to help I used hald a tab of bromo and the next day everything was better. Downside was even at that small a dose bromo makes me sick i.e. head aches, stomach pain, stuffy head, and I couldnt sleep.

 

[Skip]

Aromasin (exemestane) is in a class of it's own, it is a aromatase inactivator...It actually renders estrogen receptors useless. Instead of just inhibiting production, it cuts off production.

.

I don't believe this is accurate when you say that it "cuts off production". Blood lipid profiles are left intact while on aromasin because the estrogen doesn't go anywhere. It is, in essence, floating around just as it would be if you weren't using an anti e. The difference is that the estrogen is, as it stated above, rendered useless or "inactivated". However, you guys are the PHDs when it comes to explaining shit. I get an explanation and description, research it long enough to decide whether to use it and play with it a bit and then form my opinions based almost entirely on how effective it was in relation to issues of conditioning, over several uses.
I can say this: If aromasin acted just as arimidex does, they would both have the same effects on blood lipid profiles and they do not. I want to see you argue THIS point. lol I wonder if it has somehow been missed that it (aromasin) could have both traits in that it could be an inactivator AND an inhibitor. I believe that this is what makes the anti e properties of cytadren so pronounced. I am not completely sure of this latter statement but I am pretty damned sure.

What say you?

Skip
ADD: And the answer to the original question of whether femara is better than aromasin is a resounding and emphatic no. However, I will concede that this is only MY opinion.

 

[KillerStack]

I don't believe this is accurate when you say that it "cuts off production". Blood lipid profiles are left intact while on aromasin because the estrogen doesn't go anywhere. It is, in essence, floating around just as it would be if you weren't using an anti e. The difference is that the estrogen is, as it stated above, rendered useless or "inactivated".

It's a "suicide inhibitor" of aromatase,permanently inactivates the enzyme.It does significantly lower circulating estrogen.It isn't " floating around just as it would be if you weren't using an anti e."

 

[Skip]

It's a "suicide inhibitor" of aromatase,permanently inactivates the enzyme.It does significantly lower circulating estrogen.It isn't " floating around just as it would be if you weren't using an anti e."

If what you are saying is correct, than I was correct with my presumption that it is both an inhibitor and an inactivator, correct? I don't know about lowering the circulating estrogen,though. Elaborate if you would.

I am listening.....

Skip

 

[amenselah]

Skip read this study bi pfizer

it does reduce circulating estrogen in premestrual women..
no study has been done on man..buy it might work


**broken link removed**

If what you are saying is correct, than I was correct with my presumption that it is both an inhibitor and an inactivator, correct? I don't know about lowering the circulating estrogen,though. Elaborate if you would.

I am listening.....

Skip

 

[Skip]

Now that was a good read.

One thing stood out and this is what it said: Aromasin is not indicated for women who have premenopausal endocrine status. So my question is what if aromasin was administered to a woman as an anti estrogen for the purpose of contest prep before a show? This all started about aromasin and such because "dad" and I were debating the use of arimidex with women and whether aromasin would work better than arimidex for both conditioning (fat loss) purposes and for it being healthier on blood lipid profiles.

I mean, I am sure that most all medical information is going to recommend against an anti e for a woman under menopausal age but would aromasin be any worse or better than arimidex for the purpose that I stated above?

Skip

 

[amenselah]

I will stick to Nolva for women..
read the last section..

This medicine contains the active ingredient exemestane, which is a type of medicine called an aromatase inhibitor. It works by preventing the action of an enzyme in the body called the aromatase enzyme.

The aromatase enzyme is involved in the production of the female sex hormone, oestrogen, in postmenopausal women. This enzyme converts the sex hormones androstenedione (produced by the ovaries), and testosterone, into oestrogen. Exemestane prevents this conversion by blocking the action of the aromatase enzyme. This causes a reduction in oestrogen levels.

Most breast cancers are sensitive to oestrogen, and their growth is stimulated by this hormone. By lowering the levels of oestrogen in the body, anastrozole starves the breast cancer cells and stops them from growing. Exemestane is only effective in treating breast cancers that are sensitive to oestrogen (these are sometimes called oestrogen receptor positive cancers).

Exemestane is only effective in postmenopausal women, since before the menopause oestrogen is mainly produced directly by the ovaries and not by the action of the aromatase enzyme.

 

[Skip]

Exemestane is only effective in postmenopausal women, since before the menopause oestrogen is mainly produced directly by the ovaries and not by the action of the aromatase enzyme.

But this statement is in reference to women with cancer, NOT relatively healthy women who are preparing for a show or looking to use an anti e to help drop large amounts of bodyfat.

Just to add to that, I would not use nolva if that were the only option. I consider a poor option, no option.

Skip

 

[KillerStack]

I don't know about lowering the circulating estrogen,though. Elaborate if you would.

I am listening.....

Skip

From what I've read:
Pretty much all estrogen in males is from aromatizing testosterone (it's also a myth that E levels are high post cycle when test is low since estrogen follows Test levels.).So if it inhibits and inactivates the enzyme estrogen levels fall.That's in males,haven't studied how estrogen works in females.

 

[xcelbeyond]

(it's also a myth that E levels are high post cycle when test is low since estrogen follows Test levels.)

I believe this just gets mischaracterized. Post cycle, your natural test levels drop (do not recover) after endogenous test leaves. This leaves your testosterone-to-estrogen levels out of balance, possibly enough for estrogen to cause issues. So people mistate by saying e levels are high when when it's the ratio that put e out of balance.

 

[KillerStack]

I believe this just gets mischaracterized. Post cycle, your natural test levels drop (do not recover) after endogenous test leaves. This leaves your testosterone-to-estrogen levels out of balance, possibly enough for estrogen to cause issues. So people mistate by saying e levels are high when when it's the ratio that put e out of balance.

You're right there may be an imbalance for awhile.

 

[zephyr22]

Xcel you are correct...

It all has do with a ratio of test to est. Once you mess with your own natural production by adding synthetic androgens in tho hormone axis you F it up. Now post cycle like xcel said you have a higher ratio of estrogen do to the body raising estrogen to keep up with elevated test levels also conversion of test to estrogen as you spill over. I love it we have to take so many medications just to be "big" hehehhehe

 

[Skip]

That's in males,haven't studied how estrogen works in females.

And that is why I am having a hard time sifting through all of this info. I am looking hard for the impact that this compound will have on a healthy female that is premenopausal and without cancer. I don't think they have a double blind study for this group yet. lol Seriously, I am probably not going to find this info in any medical related perodical because there is no real medical reason for a healthy, premenopausal woman who doesn't have cancer to use this compound.

I suppose the best I can do is speculate.

Skip

 

[amenselah]

Skip, I have spend a few hours trying to find any info on this with no luck...

all u need is a female volunteer .... J/K

And that is why I am having a hard time sifting through all of this info. I am looking hard for the impact that this compound will have on a healthy female that is premenopausal and without cancer. I don't think they have a double blind study for this group yet. lol Seriously, I am probably not going to find this info in any medical related perodical because there is no real medical reason for a healthy, premenopausal woman who doesn't have cancer to use this compound.

I suppose the best I can do is speculate.

Skip

 

[Skip]

all u need is a female volunteer .... J/K

I would have better luck finding the info. lol

Skip