Jordan Peters to TRT

[qbkilla]

Question about the studies...and keep in mind I'm not a science guy, are the studies in humans or rats? Do they include compounds like tren, eq, dhb, superdtol that have no legit medical purpose? If so surprising, I didn't know scientists knew about designer aas or could get funding to study them.

Have there also been studies done to show how useful insulin and hgh are in building muscle protein when combined with aas or do we just have real world observations?

 

[pesty4077]

You can not ethically do studies of VET drugs on humans that are not approved for human use. There is little to none.

Trenbolone actually was produced for human use as a human grade product, but only once. The product came in 1.5ml ampoules consisting of 76.2mg of Trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcaronate and made by Negma Pharmaceuticals of France.

 

[LATS]

Question about the studies...and keep in mind I'm not a science guy, are the studies in humans or rats? Do they include compounds like tren, eq, dhb, superdtol that have no legit medical purpose? If so surprising, I didn't know scientists knew about designer aas or could get funding to study them.

Have there also been studies done to show how useful insulin and hgh are in building muscle protein when combined with aas or do we just have real world observations?

There have been studies on tren ( parabolan) as it was a hrt compound many years ago produced by negma in france.. it was pushed aside as it didn't have much success to trt as it didn't have any estro or dht abilities etc.. There are also studies on bold ..
You won't get studies on a gh combo with slin as who is really going to fund it and for what purpose.. but individually there has been numerous studies on gh.. too many to count..

 

[pesty4077]

There have been studies on tren ( parabolan) as it was a hrt compound many years ago produced by negma in france.. it was pushed aside as it didn't have much success to trt as it didn't have any estro or dht abilities etc.. There are also studies on bold ..
You won't get studies on a gh combo with slin as who is really going to fund it and for what purpose.. but individually there has been numerous studies on gh.. too many to count..

The only study I ever seen on humans for Equipoise is that old one from the 70s Victor showed. Unless there are others in humans.

 

[pesty4077]

If anyone can pull up Human studies with TREN, please post them. Internet wasn't around when they had those Amps from France. Hard to find any now.

 

[LATS]

The only study I ever seen on humans for Equipoise is that old one from the 70s Victor showed. Unless there are others in humans.

Nope.. thats the one.. parabolan has had its share since it was in trials for trt.. bold was given a shot and also " failed ".. but negma now had a market for bodybuilders and kept production up..

 

[LATS]

I've seen them posted before.. ill look in a bit.. gotta eat

 

[pesty4077]

Nope.. thats the one.. parabolan has had its share since it was in trials for trt.. bold was given a shot and also " failed ".. but negma now had a market for bodybuilders and kept production up..

I remember those Amps, we all like doing them with test. Problem is we are going way back before the internet, so it gets interesting finding them.

 

[LATS]

If anyone can pull up Human studies with TREN, please post them. Internet wasn't around when they had those Amps from France. Hard to find any now.

Here's one I had stored on my phone.. dont remember content..

Trenbolone - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[pesty4077]

Here's one I had stored on my phone.. dont remember content..

Trenbolone - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

I am going to read it when I wake up. You are going to eat, I am going to bed. It is 2 am here.

 

[LATS]

This mentions trt studies

17β-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one (trenbolone) exhibits tissue selective anabolic activity: effects on muscle, bone, adiposity, hemoglobin, and prostate | American Journal of Physiology-Endocrinology and Metabolism

Selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) now under development can protect against muscle and bone loss without causing prostate growth or polycythemia. 17β-Hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one (trenbolone), a potent testosterone analog, may have SARM-like actions because, unlike testosterone...

journals.physiology.org

 

[Type-IIx]

There are studies measuring the primary proxy for muscle anabolism (nitrogen retention) in humans with anadrol, anavar, dianabol, primobolan, nandrolone, testosterone, likely winstrol, and probably more, as these are agents that are/were used clinically or investigated for clinical use in promoting weight retention in wasting conditions. These are really the relevant studies on this topic. @pesty4077 is correct that Parabolan (tren) was available for clinical use, but I am unsure what condition it was intended to treat, and whether there is any available research on its muscle anabolism in humans. I doubt that data exists in the public record.

The use for animal research is when we are looking at physiological mechanisms that translate to humans, that cannot practicably or ethically be done in humans. The Parenabol study looked at bone metabolism (calcium retention) and mentions hemoglobin and protein content increasing with dose in humans (including subjects with methamphetamine addiction/alcoholic cirrhosis), but dosages are very low (25 and 50 mg) and isn't great for determining muscle anabolism (i.e., nitrogen retention in muscle cells).

 

[LATS]

There are studies measuring the primary proxy for muscle anabolism (nitrogen retention) in humans with anadrol, anavar, dianabol, primobolan, nandrolone, testosterone, likely winstrol, and probably more, as these are agents that are/were used clinically or investigated for clinical use in promoting weight retention in wasting conditions. These are really the relevant studies on this topic. @pesty4077 is correct that Parabolan (tren) was available for clinical use, but I am unsure what condition it was intended to treat, and whether there is any available research on its muscle anabolism in humans. I doubt that data exists in the public record.

The use for animal research is when we are looking at physiological mechanisms that translate to humans, that cannot practicably or ethically be done in humans. The Parenabol study looked at bone metabolism (calcium retention) and mentions hemoglobin and protein content increasing with dose in humans (including subjects with methamphetamine addiction/alcoholic cirrhosis), but dosages are very low (25 and 50 mg) and isn't great for determining muscle anabolism (i.e., nitrogen retention in muscle cells).

It was Negma that pushed for parabolan to be used as trt over test.. it soon was discovered to be less than adequate in regards to trt.. there are exerts of their studies on line I'm sure as I've seen them posted over the years.. some trt Dr's still think it's viable but the lack of estro and other activities always seems to be the draw back.

 

[specter]

It was Negma that pushed for parabolan to be used as trt over test.. it soon was discovered to be less than adequate in regards to trt.. there are exerts of their studies on line I'm sure as I've seen them posted over the years.. some trt Dr's still think it's viable but the lack of estro and other activities always seems to be the draw back.

i believe they also prescribed it for osteoperosis in women and breast cancer.

 

[LATS]

i believe they also prescribed it for osteoperosis in women and breast cancer.

I know masterone was prescribe for that.. never heard of parabolan..

 

[totalrecomp]

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/primo-science-broscience-thread-assessment-of-strengths-weaknesses.169109/

Deca > Primo > Dbol at the dosages used (in humans)

That's just one study. There are countless human studies of different designs that look at the anabolism of different commercially available androgens. Tren, look at things like feed efficiency to determine anabolism. All designs have limitations, but it is curious how one could conclude that all androgens are equivalent in terms of anabolism.

The one Victor references is the ONLY time they compared all those compounds at the same time, same study and same EXACT set of standards/conditions/variables. ALL the other data on the subject is grabbed randomly from here and there and piecemealed together. THIS MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

Also "accrues protein" is not the ONLY thing that they do and he is NOT saying they all have the same total end effect on a physique.

I swear I have never seen a single guy be misquoted and misinterpreted as often as I see VB.

 

[totalrecomp]

I believe there will be more actual skeletal muscle tissue growth with Luki's protocol.

Wait for the drugs to clear and with them the glycogen and water and measure after that and I think there would be little difference.

For the millionth time, online VB is not debating what works or is fastest he is suggesting what may be less costly health wise for the average guy to do for 30 years...............

 

[specter]

I know masterone was prescribe for that.. never heard of parabolan..

Maybe im mixing them up in my head, ill see if i can find any papers on it, Parabolan was made until late 90's so they sure did use it for a long time really before dumping it.

 

[LATS]

The one Victor references is the ONLY time they compared all those compounds at the same time, same study and same EXACT set of standards/conditions/variables. ALL the other data on the subject is grabbed randomly from here and there and piecemealed together. THIS MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

Also "accrues protein" is not the ONLY thing that they do and he is NOT saying they all have the same total end effect on a physique.

I swear I have never seen a single guy be misquoted and misinterpreted as often as I see VB.

Yes.. and like I have said numerous times in this thread.. they all have secondary characteristics that makes one " better" than the other.. they all do the same thing in regards to protein accrete.. but its what they do after that makes each compound unique. Having that knowledge let's one use the various compounds for specific needs. Not just throwing numerous compounds together that have the same side effects and wondering 10 years from now where it all went wrong

 

[Type-IIx]

The one Victor references is the ONLY time they compared all those compounds at the same time, same study and same EXACT set of standards/conditions/variables. ALL the other data on the subject is grabbed randomly from here and there and piecemealed together. THIS MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

Also "accrues protein" is not the ONLY thing that they do and he is NOT saying they all have the same total end effect on a physique.

I swear I have never seen a single guy be misquoted and misinterpreted as often as I see VB.

It is unfair for people to try to understand his statements and end up misrepresenting him (unintentional in this case) but it's an imperfect solution for people that don't want to leave their respective sites (him behind his paywall or on instagram, us here on ProM where he has an account).

To your point that the data is grabbed randomly and piecemealed together, it still paints an accurate picture as it's done under well-controlled conditions in the studies I cite and it's actually IN HUMANS.

I really want to read the comparative rodent study. I respect Victor's approach and the push for safe use, and he did a great job finding that Parenabol study.