lab results

[mrsoul]

i have been off since 6/21/08, had my blood test done on 7/29/08 and got the results back today. i had been on test for about a year, and i used orals during my contest prep. here are my results.

total cholesterol- 140
ldl-72
hdl-57
tri-57

test level- 250, normal was 240-827

liver enzymes
ast-104
alt-220

kidney functions were normal, blood sugars normal.

my questions are can i expect my test levels to rise anymore since i have only been off a short time? i know they are within normal range but they are low normal. can i expect my liver enzymes to go down the longer i stay off? i used liv 52.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Seriously

your liver needs Synthergine BADLY....Get those numbers down

 

[Pekkerwood]

One month will not be enough for most people to recover. Look at it like this, you probably did not void the existing exegenous test from you system for three weeks or so. Just because a test is to be injected weekly does not mean its gone in one week. If the halflife is one week you can still have significant amounts three weeks later or even a month. I know this because I have been tested.Yes, its possible that your test levels will rise over the next three or four months. I agree with Phil that the liver values are a larger concern, which reminds me, I need to take my synthergine today.

Pekkerwood

 

[VTliftVT]

My liver values have been much higher than that (damn oral winstol!). Just bc your liver values are elevated DOES NOT mean that your liver is in any harm or has been harmed. I have had sonograms done on both liver and kidneys which revealed them to be perfectly healthy and functional, not fatty or damaged in any way. The values did decrease over the next few months.

This however is just my experience and in no way am i saying to take elevated enzymes lightly. However, don't feel that it's the end of the world.

 

[phatkid77]

test numbers suck ass... for a 1yr cycle, not nearly enough time...did you PCT?

back when i did my show, i ran a doozy of a cycle, did pct....the quit and quit working out for close to 4yrs... my test levels never recovered..or they REALLY sucked anyways...im on HRT, 31yrs old, and i tested 335ng....FYI

phats

 

[PHIL HERNON]

?

My liver values have been much higher than that (damn oral winstol!). Just bc your liver values are elevated DOES NOT mean that your liver is in any harm or has been harmed. I have had sonograms done on both liver and kidneys which revealed them to be perfectly healthy and functional, not fatty or damaged in any way. The values did decrease over the next few months.

This however is just my experience and in no way am i saying to take elevated enzymes lightly. However, don't feel that it's the end of the world.

AST-104........ALT220..........NO WORRIES, ???? HAHAHHAAHAHAHA OK.... SO "NOT THE END OF THE WORLD"...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? DOES IT MEAN DO NOTHING AND CARRY ON? WHAT ADVICE ARE YOU GIVING TO HIM, NOT TO EVER WORRY? ARE YOU MORE CONCERNED WITH HIS MENTAL STATE OR HIS HEALTH?

 

[VTliftVT]

AST-104........ALT220..........NO WORRIES, ???? HAHAHHAAHAHAHA OK.... SO "NOT THE END OF THE WORLD"...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? DOES IT MEAN DO NOTHING AND CARRY ON? WHAT ADVICE ARE YOU GIVING TO HIM, NOT TO EVER WORRY? ARE YOU MORE CONCERNED WITH HIS MENTAL STATE OR HIS HEALTH?

I simply stated my situation and said that my liver enzymes where higher than that but my liver was in perfect condition. AAS will most often raise liver enzymes but without causing damage to the liver.

Where did I say no worries? I'm certain that was not stated.

I also said that it is NOT SOMETHING TO TAKE LIGHTLY. As in keep them monitored adn do all you can to make sure they are back into the normal range asap.

The phrase "its not the end of the world" simply meant to not stress about it. What good is elevating cortisol and worrying over something you can not do anything about aside from what you mentioned, taking synthergine and treating your liver well? Thats all he can do...take positive actions to drop his liver enzyme levels and monitor them. What else would you suggest he do? Start looking for a transplant?

 

[VTliftVT]

Scientific Study

Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated?

Researchers: Dickerman RD, Pertusi RM, Zachariah NY, Dufour DR, McConathy WJ

The Department of Biomedical Science, University of North Texas Health Science Center, Fort Worth 76107-2699, USA.

Source: Clin J Sport Med 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9

Summary:

Subjects: The participants were bodybuilders taking self-directed regimens of anabolic steroids (n = 15) and bodybuilders not taking steroids (n = 10). Blood chemistry profiles from patients with viral hepatitis (n = 49) and exercising and non-exercising medical students (592) were used as controls.

Measurements: The focus of the blood chemistry profiles was on aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT), and creatine kinase (CK) levels. (All indicators of liver function.)

Results: In both groups of bodybuilders, CK, AST, and ALT were elevated, whereas GGT remained in the normal range. In contrast, patients with hepatitis had elevations of all three enzymes: ALT, AST, and GGT. Creatine kinase (CK) was elevated in all exercising groups. Patients with hepatitis were the only group in which a correlation was found between aminotransferases and GGT.

Discussion:

All in all this study was pretty straight forward. It set out to see if markers other than aminotransferase (AST) of liver function were correlated with steroid use in bodybuilders. In this study we saw the comparison of blood samples from steroid using bodybuilders, non-steroid using bodybuilders, med students, and patients with hepatitis. Several indicators of liver function were measured wich included aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT), gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT), and creatine kinase (CK) levels. Creatine kinase is a common blood marker of muscle damage and thus it was elevated in those subjects who exercised. The other markers have normal values as well in healthy subjects (see table 1). I include a table of normal ranges for these markers simply to give you some idea of what your particular blood test results mean if you should have them done while on a cycle. And yes, if you are lucky enough to have a doctor who is willing to monitor your health knowing you are using anabolics please have your blood work done before, during, and after your cycles.

Table 1.

Test
Reference Range (Conventional)
Reference Range (International)

Aspartate aminotransferase
NA
10-30 U/L

Alanine aminotransferase
NA
8-20 U/L

Gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase
NA
Male: 9-50 U/L

Female: 8-40 U/L

Creatine kinase
Fraction 2 (MB)<4-6% of total
Male: 38-174 U/L

Female: 26-140 U/L

Fraction of total: 0.04-0.06


To summarize, the usual tests that have been relied on to declare hepatotoxicity from steroid use may be and are very likely to be, inadequate to justify such a claim when considering the type of subjects in this study. The lack of abnormality in gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase from bodybuilders using anabolics indicates that the elevated levels of the other markers may be misleading when it comes to true liver function and may be partly related to muscle damaged induced by resistance exercise. The authors of this study put it this way:

"Prior reports of anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity based on elevated aminotransferase levels may have been overstated, because no exercising subjects, including steroid users, demonstrated hepatic dysfunction based on GGT levels. Such reports may have misled the medical community to emphasize steroid-induced hepatotoxicity when interpreting elevated aminotransferase levels and disregard muscle damage. For these reasons, when evaluating hepatic function in cases of anabolic steroid therapy or abuse, CK and GGT levels should be considered in addition to ALT and AST levels as essential elements of the assessment."

 

[VTliftVT]

One more

Home Research and Review Serum Enzyme Monitoring in Bodybuilders Serum Enzyme Monitoring in Bodybuilders
Written by Robbie Durand
Thursday, 10 July 2008
Many times when bodybuilders go to their local primary care doctor, serum enzymes that are used as measures of renal and liver function such as Creatinine (CK), Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT), and Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST) are often elevated. Many primary care doctors mistakenly assume this is kidney/liver damage often not asking about training volume. As discussed on NO BULL RADIO this week, blood panels often ordered by primary care doctors are meant for normal sedentary adults, not athletes! In a 2008 paper titled Serum Enzyme Monitoring in Sports Medicine, the author writes that CK, AST, and ALT levels are often elevated after intense training in athletes. CK is associated with muscle injury which may be elevated for 2-7 days after exercise. The author also writes that resting CK levels are higher in athletes compared to sedentary adults. Additionally, previous studies have found that ALT, AST are elevated after intense muscle damage especially eccentric exercise. If you have to get blood work done, make sure you have a knowledgeable physician whom is knowledgeable about athletes and serum enzymes.


- Brancaccio P, Maffulli N, Buonauro R, Limongelli FM.
Serum enzyme monitoring in sports medicine. Clin Sports
Med.
2008 Jan;27(1):1-18, vii. Review.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Dude

I simply stated my situation and said that my liver enzymes where higher than that but my liver was in perfect condition. AAS will most often raise liver enzymes but without causing damage to the liver.

Where did I say no worries? I'm certain that was not stated.

I also said that it is NOT SOMETHING TO TAKE LIGHTLY. As in keep them monitored adn do all you can to make sure they are back into the normal range asap.

The phrase "its not the end of the world" simply meant to not stress about it. What good is elevating cortisol and worrying over something you can not do anything about aside from what you mentioned, taking synthergine and treating your liver well? Thats all he can do...take positive actions to drop his liver enzyme levels and monitor them. What else would you suggest he do? Start looking for a transplant?

ALT of 202 is BEYOND ELEVATED.........even AST of 104........ Hey, its up to you, you must have been around competing for 25 years like a lot of us and competed at a professional level and gotten advice from the best doctors in the "know' in the world.....because you sound so confident and present these studies.

 

[Massive G]

i have been off since 6/21/08, had my blood test done on 7/29/08 and got the results back today. i had been on test for about a year, and i used orals during my contest prep. here are my results.

total cholesterol- 140
ldl-72
hdl-57
tri-57

test level- 250, normal was 240-827

liver enzymes
ast-104
alt-220

kidney functions were normal, blood sugars normal.

my questions are can i expect my test levels to rise anymore since i have only been off a short time? i know they are within normal range but they are low normal. can i expect my liver enzymes to go down the longer i stay off? i used liv 52.

Soul did you train before the test?

The recovery of the HPTA is really an individual thing age, how long you were on and doses and compounds used.


Thistle is tried and true-often forgotten by many

 

[VTliftVT]

ALT of 202 is BEYOND ELEVATED.........even AST of 104........ Hey, its up to you, you must have been around competing for 25 years like a lot of us and competed at a professional level and gotten advice from the best doctors in the "know' in the world.....because you sound so confident and present these studies.

Phil, im not saying anything to that manner. I don't know why you feel the need to jump on me. I didn't say to just sit back and relax and not worry did I? I believe you are misconstrewing my post. YES THOSE LEVELS ARE GREATLY ELEVATED! Your ONLY comment was "get synthergine" as if thats suddenly going to make things allllll better. I agree whole heartedly that he should take something of that sort to help lower his enzymes...so where are we at a disconnect here?

Those lab reports were ONLY to show that elevated enzymes do not necessarily mean he is going to wake up in the morning without a functional liver! THATS ALL! I was not trying to prove a point other than that FOR ME....MY BODY...MY LIVER...MY BLOOD TESTS...they showed liver enzymes elevated more than his yet my liver was in perfect health....THAT IS ALL!

I AGREE HE SHOULD KEEP THEM MONITORED AND USE A QUALITY PRODUCT LIKE SYNTHERGINE TO TRY AND LOWER THEM...where is the problem here?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I think

Phil, im not saying anything to that manner. I don't know why you feel the need to jump on me. I didn't say to just sit back and relax and not worry did I? I believe you are misconstrewing my post. YES THOSE LEVELS ARE GREATLY ELEVATED! Your ONLY comment was "get synthergine" as if thats suddenly going to make things allllll better. I agree whole heartedly that he should take something of that sort to help lower his enzymes...so where are we at a disconnect here?

Those lab reports were ONLY to show that elevated enzymes do not necessarily mean he is going to wake up in the morning without a functional liver! THATS ALL! I was not trying to prove a point other than that FOR ME....MY BODY...MY LIVER...MY BLOOD TESTS...they showed liver enzymes elevated more than his yet my liver was in perfect health....THAT IS ALL!

I AGREE HE SHOULD KEEP THEM MONITORED AND USE A QUALITY PRODUCT LIKE SYNTHERGINE TO TRY AND LOWER THEM...where is the problem here?

Maybe you have a problem understanding my point? Relax.........I never said he had a non functioning liver, you are kind of flying off the handle here.........that is the problem.

 

[VTliftVT]

Maybe you have a problem understanding my point? Relax.........I never said he had a non functioning liver, you are kind of flying off the handle here.........that is the problem.

Ok well I apologize, I just didn't want you to think I was telling him to not worry about it bc obviously with those levels it is of concern.

And by all means I don't want you to feel that I am negating your opinion. You by far have more experience and knowledge in this field.

 

[mrsoul]

Soul did you train before the test?

The recovery of the HPTA is really an individual thing age, how long you were on and doses and compounds used.


Thistle is tried and true-often forgotten by many

i did not train that morning. i am 37, and was on for about year total.

 

[mrsoul]

test numbers suck ass... for a 1yr cycle, not nearly enough time...did you PCT?

back when i did my show, i ran a doozy of a cycle, did pct....the quit and quit working out for close to 4yrs... my test levels never recovered..or they REALLY sucked anyways...im on HRT, 31yrs old, and i tested 335ng....FYI

phats

yes i did pct, clomid, aromasin, then tribulus. i think i am probably still rebounding, hopefully. i am getting tested again in six weeks.

 

[KillerStack]

yes i did pct, clomid, aromasin, then tribulus. i think i am probably still rebounding, hopefully. i am getting tested again in six weeks.

It could take a couple of years to recover fully. And your levels on PCT drugs is not necessarily what they will be once you get the PCT drugs fully out of your system. They could fall.

 

[Dr.S]

Try this

i have been off since 6/21/08, had my blood test done on 7/29/08 and got the results back today. i had been on test for about a year, and i used orals during my contest prep. here are my results.

total cholesterol- 140
ldl-72
hdl-57
tri-57

test level- 250, normal was 240-827

liver enzymes
ast-104
alt-220

kidney functions were normal, blood sugars normal.

my questions are can i expect my test levels to rise anymore since i have only been off a short time? i know they are within normal range but they are low normal. can i expect my liver enzymes to go down the longer i stay off? i used liv 52.

You need to get that liver inflammation down ASAP. I had an issue with AST and ALT elevated slightly higher than your numbers. I assume the GGT, bilirubin, total iron, ferritin are in the normal range?--since you didn't post those #'s......

If just the AST/ALT are elevated it may be inflammation from gear/diet/other drugs. If you're taking an aspirin, NSAIDS, etc---cut those out

Here is the protocol I used, and I had a number of folks use it with good results....after aprx 1.5-2 months AST/ALT were back in the 20's

You are already using Liv-52, but the recommended dose may be a bit low. If you have the 450mg capsules, bump the dose to 6-8 pills/day (2 pills 3-4 x's day)

Liv-52/ Liver Care ( 2 pills, 3-4 x's day)

N-Acetyl Cysteine (600mg 2'x day)

Milk Thistle ( 600mg 2 x's day)

Vit -C ( 1000mg 2 x's day)

ALA ( I like a product that is 300mg ALA with 500mg ALCAR per pill, but you can just go with the ALA at 300mg 2 x's per day....overall, though, you will certainly benefit if you use the combo)


If you can take the NAC on an empty stomach if will be helpful (for instance---wake up and take a 600mg tab NAC; 10-20 minutes later have breakfast, then take 2 pills Liv-52, 600mg Thistle, 1000mg Vit-C, ALA/ALCAR pill). Same protocol again in early evening. The Vit-C is important b/c NAC will deplete the body of Vit-C. You may also want to take 5-10 grams of a quality fish oil to further help with the inflammation reduction.

30 mg Zinc Monomethionine or 30 ZMA product with your last meal will be beneficial to over health and help you on the road to getting the test levels up some,

These supplement are all pretty inexpensive---please start on this today. You only have one liver, and you need to get those #'s back in the normal range

 

[BLACKCAT]

It could take a couple of years to recover fully. And your levels on PCT drugs is not necessarily what they will be once you get the PCT drugs fully out of your system. They could fall.

They most likely will fall. Start doing some simple math and you are going to figure out the rate at which the amount of hormones will be decreasing in your body.

I have had my blood drawn at various times and those times include 8,16,24 weeks post HRT and the number gets worse as the length of time progresses. The time it can take for you to feel the HPTA lag can take longer that most think and not mention many have resumed a HRT program prior to making a full recovery so they think they feel fine. Come off for a year without a brige of any kind and you will feel and see what I speak of. First and foremost though, get those liver enzymes down.