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Lack of carbs unhealthy

Kaladryn

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The problem with lowering any macronutrient too much is that you must raise the others to maintain enough calories. If you are eating a diet that is 33% carbs, 33% protein, and 33% fat and you cut the carbs to 0, you are now eating 50% protein and 50% fat.

Also interesting and something I just recently learned from my endocrinologist, who specializes in diabetes care, very low carbohydrate diets can cause insulin resistance.
 

pickapeck

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The problem with lowering any macronutrient too much is that you must raise the others to maintain enough calories. If you are eating a diet that is 33% carbs, 33% protein, and 33% fat and you cut the carbs to 0, you are now eating 50% protein and 50% fat.

Also interesting and something I just recently learned from my endocrinologist, who specializes in diabetes care, very low carbohydrate diets can cause insulin resistance.

That does't make sense to me. should be the opposite at least for healthy people. that's why you fill in like crazy after a deplete.
 

Kaladryn

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That does't make sense to me. should be the opposite at least for healthy people. that's why you fill in like crazy after a deplete.

A lack of insulin resistance isn't why you super-compensate after a deplete, anyone who successfully carb loads while using large amounts of GH and having insulin resistance proves that.

Insulin resistance is very complex and there are probably many different kinds, it is also not just pathologic, it is a natural function under some circumstances.

Very low carb diets cause the muscles to develop insulin resistance in order to preserve glucose for the brain.

The rabbit hole is very deep, this is a good study if you are interesting in delving deeper:

Raison d?être of insulin resistance: the adjustable threshold hypothesis | Journal of The Royal Society Interface
 

pickapeck

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A lack of insulin resistance isn't why you super-compensate after a deplete, anyone who successfully carb loads while using large amounts of GH and having insulin resistance proves that.

Insulin resistance is very complex and there are probably many different kinds, it is also not just pathologic, it is a natural function under some circumstances.

Very low carb diets cause the muscles to develop insulin resistance in order to preserve glucose for the brain.

The rabbit hole is very deep, this is a good study if you are interesting in delving deeper:

Raison d?être of insulin resistance: the adjustable threshold hypothesis | Journal of The Royal Society Interface

Interesting. I hadn't thought of brain glucose. Must be at the extreme.
 

jcc80

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Makes me wonder how low is 'too low'. If one is eating veggies as part of their keto diet (which I sure as shit hope they're doing), there will be some trace carbs from that. Is it enough?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

pickapeck

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OK I scanned the paper. Ion and Iof values are supported. These conditions and their balance are both nascent to the tissues and also secondarily dependent on conditions especially in extreme conditions like pregnancy and starvation. There is a hierarchy and that is dependent upon necessity of the tissues.
 

jstrong20

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I stay pretty low usually 200 so I’m that’s enough. I do well with higher protein 300 grams is what I shoot for
 

suppdude

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The problem with lowering any macronutrient too much is that you must raise the others to maintain enough calories. If you are eating a diet that is 33% carbs, 33% protein, and 33% fat and you cut the carbs to 0, you are now eating 50% protein and 50% fat.

Also interesting and something I just recently learned from my endocrinologist, who specializes in diabetes care, very low carbohydrate diets can cause insulin resistance.

Along with this, higher fat causes insulin resistance as well. Most who think when they drop carbs very low and increase fats a good amount are resting insulin sensitivity, when they are only aiding in insulin resistance.
 

SOUR DIESEL

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..pretty sure i remember reading a study in which diabetes was treated/cured with sugar

..also pretty sure i recall med reports of inadvertent diabetic cures in patients that underwent gastrointestinal bypass surgery presumably thru the 2 week fast that typically follows the procedure
 

jet2000

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I always feel super weak on low carb, I have no idea people survive on Keto :D
 

AFJ

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A lack of insulin resistance isn't why you super-compensate after a deplete, anyone who successfully carb loads while using large amounts of GH and having insulin resistance proves that.

Insulin resistance is very complex and there are probably many different kinds, it is also not just pathologic, it is a natural function under some circumstances.

Very low carb diets cause the muscles to develop insulin resistance in order to preserve glucose for the brain.

The rabbit hole is very deep, this is a good study if you are interesting in delving deeper:

Raison d?être of insulin resistance: the adjustable threshold hypothesis | Journal of The Royal Society Interface

Can you confirm this. Very low carbs diets, or no carb diets help insulin sensitivity. I believed this for many years and have just been reading it is actually the opposite.
 

Kaladryn

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Can you confirm this. Very low carbs diets, or no carb diets help insulin sensitivity. I believed this for many years and have just been reading it is actually the opposite.

From my endo: "It's a bell curve, we see insulin resistance at one end from too much carbohydrate and also insulin resistance at the other end from too little carbohydrate."

Insulin resistance is complex and happens for several reasons, not all negative or pathological.
 

NY Muscle

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I've been keto for decades so this subject comes up a lot especially in the keto FB groups I'm in with 100s of thousands of members.

Physiological Insulin Resistance is a benign state that is not making your diabetic insulin resistance worse. A ketogenic dieter becomes adapted to sparing glucose for use by those cells which absolutely require it. Some brain cells, red blood cells and testes require glucose because they do not have mitochondria. Fasting blood glucose will often rise above 100 mg/dl. Mine ranges from 90 to 125 upon awakening. I also practice intermittent fasting.

With Physiological Insulin Resistance you will have a low HbA1c value, your liver and kidneys will be very sensitive to the effect of insulin, even though muscle tissue isn’t, you will almost never suffer hypoglycemic events. It takes a few days of eating carbs to return to the normal state for healthy people.

This is why the term is “physiological” and NOT “pathological”. It is not a disease state, it is a healthy response to carbohydrate restriction.

Is physiological insulin resistance such a bad thing? No, it means your body is healthy and functioning properly. If you have physiological insulin resistance, you are not at risk to become diabetic, in fact it is the opposite.


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chihuahua

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From my endo: "It's a bell curve, we see insulin resistance at one end from too much carbohydrate and also insulin resistance at the other end from too little carbohydrate."

Insulin resistance is complex and happens for several reasons, not all negative or pathological.

Please ask him/her for the studies to prove this.
 

Kaladryn

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Please ask him/her for the studies to prove this.

oh there are lots, just google it, I even posted an excellent link to a study that shows exactly why above.
 

Kaladryn

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I've been keto for decades so this subject comes up a lot especially in the keto FB groups I'm in with 100s of thousands of members.

Physiological Insulin Resistance is a benign state that is not making your diabetic insulin resistance worse. A ketogenic dieter becomes adapted to sparing glucose for use by those cells which absolutely require it. Some brain cells, red blood cells and testes require glucose because they do not have mitochondria. Fasting blood glucose will often rise above 100 mg/dl. Mine ranges from 90 to 125 upon awakening. I also practice intermittent fasting.

With Physiological Insulin Resistance you will have a low HbA1c value, your liver and kidneys will be very sensitive to the effect of insulin, even though muscle tissue isn’t, you will almost never suffer hypoglycemic events. It takes a few days of eating carbs to return to the normal state for healthy people.

This is why the term is “physiological” and NOT “pathological”. It is not a disease state, it is a healthy response to carbohydrate restriction.

Is physiological insulin resistance such a bad thing? No, it means your body is healthy and functioning properly. If you have physiological insulin resistance, you are not at risk to become diabetic, in fact it is the opposite.


Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Good info and accurate, it can be easy to go from physiological insulin resistance to pathological insulin resistance when stopping a keto diet cold turkey and going high carbohydrate, not advisable, but a common mistake.
 

NY Muscle

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Good info and accurate, it can be easy to go from physiological insulin resistance to pathological insulin resistance when stopping a keto diet cold turkey and going high carbohydrate, not advisable, but a common mistake.

Indeed and this is why I advise those who want to stop keto for whatever reason to ease into a moderate carb diet. Start off with PSMF-like macros, low fat and low carb then slowly up the carbs then fat again. Works very well.

That being said I cycle my carbs via CKD and always have, just works for me. I have achieved such a high level of metabolic flexibility that I can "carb up" on 800 gms (and very VERY low fat that day) and show decent blood ketones the next morning.

In the 90's it would take 3-4 days to restablish ketosis and show those same blood readings but now it is super easy.
 

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