LOOSE FORM (PROS)

[kingpeon]

over the years i have had the opportunity to see many pros train. (ronnie coleman, kevin levrone, chris cormier, eddie ellwood, john citrone, shari kamali, paul dillett, tom prince, nasser el sonbaty, tom platz, aaron baker, flex wheeler, sergio oliva, lee haney, samir , and dean capouto.. i hope i did not forget anyone lol) i have seen these gentleman train up close and with the exception of aaron baker, most use a very fast, non lock out, loose type form. i have never seen a really strict form coming from the guys at the top. i have talked about this in the past but, we have phil, mikes, big a and wylde on the board more and they have seen their share of top national and pros train.....platz said to me outside golds a few years back "it is all about tension" who knows..maybe he is right.

I tend to agree with Platz, time under tension and target range of motion are where it's at.

 

[Horizon]

over the years i have had the opportunity to see many pros train. (ronnie coleman, kevin levrone, chris cormier, eddie ellwood, john citrone, shari kamali, paul dillett, tom prince, nasser el sonbaty, tom platz, aaron baker, flex wheeler, sergio oliva, lee haney, samir , and dean capouto.. i hope i did not forget anyone lol) i have seen these gentleman train up close and with the exception of aaron baker, most use a very fast, non lock out, loose type form. i have never seen a really strict form coming from the guys at the top. i have talked about this in the past but, we have phil, mikes, big a and wylde on the board more and they have seen their share of top national and pros train.....platz said to me outside golds a few years back "it is all about tension" who knows..maybe he is right.

There is a guy at my gym i talked to alot,a black kid,about 26. He has the worse form possible. I seen him peel one night in the gym changing his shirt,and omg, the kid looks like a cartoon charecter. Just crazy development and has the loosest most terrible form possible. But there is time under tention there as he puts up some good weight for his 170 lb frame. He is short. about 5'7" id say.

 

[sma]

I go by feel in terms of tempo Rom and reps

For the most part 3/4 range slow eccentric explosive concentric(sp?)
Bis tri calves hams all about the contraction

 

[tenny]

using weight that is too heavy causes "loose form"...

and heavy weight causes muscle tear...
you never hear of anyone tearing a pec or bicep using
a reasonable amount of weight

 

[Kaladryn]

"Strict Form" is subjective, most of the guys you mention are probably doing super strict form from their point of view of getting the maximum amount of stress into the muscle they want. It is our perception of what strict form should look like that is incorrect I believe.

 

[jay_dub]

To go against the grain here, doesn't Kai train with super super strict form on all exercises? Any video I've ever seen of him shows him lifting with extremely strict movements.

 

[Queefer]

I've changed up my form many times over the years. I've lifted heavy, and made gains, and I've lifted light and made gains. I am weaker now then I was 20 years ago, but I'm also in less pain then ever due to having less stress on the joints and tendons. I'm all about volume and pump now, which I believe is the best way to train if you are over 40 and especially if you are over 6'. I believe that lifting like I do, I'm able to train more often. I prefer to train 7 days a week. When I used to lift heavy, I had no choice but to take a few days off per week.

 

[ajdos]

My perspective is loose form is just another "style" of training, sometimes I use looser form, and sometimes I focus on very strict controlled movements and I agree with whats been said about injuries because I have had more serious injuries from small weights with controlled form than heavy with loose form.
Honestly I think some movements are better than others for the loose form thing, but each man has to find his own path in that respect.

 

[LATS]

Wow .. This a oldie... But I will add that the strictest form on any pro I have seen is lee priest and Aaron baker.. Not explosive but just a sooth cadence all the way through.. Many are into explosive shorter reps.. But when they hit 40 many ,like I, will be paying the price..

 

[flexdurden]

There are essentially three factors associated with generating a hypertrophic response to exercise, mechanical tension, muscle damage, and metabolic stress.

Mechanical tension alone is not likely responsible for hypertrophy as it has been demonstrated that certain training routines that employ a high degree of mechanical tension induce a neural adaptation without subsequent muscle hypertrophy.

Muscle damage from exercise has been shown to produce a hypertrophic response. Increased muscle damage from exercise results in increased muscle protein synthesis and is believed to lead to the release of various growth factor that promote satellite cell proliferation and differentiation. So performing repetitions in a way that increases muscle damage (e.g. increases time under tension and increases focus on the eccentric portion of the lift) has the potential to generate a greater hypertrophic response.

Metabolic stress creates a hypertrophic response through alterations in hormones, cell swelling, free radical production and increased activity of growth oriented transcription factors. Exercise that relies on anaerobic glycolysis for ATP production which results in the subsequent buildup of metabolites such as lactate, hydrogen ions, creatine and others tend to induce greater metabolic stress. Studies have shown that a moderate rep range results in greater metabolic stress because of their reliance on anaerobic glycolysis.

This leads us to postulate that using a moderate rep range and performing repetitions in a manner that generates significant muscle damage will result in the greatest hypertrophic response. So the Pros who are using a little less strict form might be doing what allows them to induce the greatest amount of muscle damage safely while increasing mechanical tension and metabolic stress.

Of course, dietary factors come into play as well too, as one may not be able to recover as well from a significant amount of muscle damage when dieting hard, thus one may need to perform reps or sets in a different manner that allows them to reach their goal.

Just my $0.02 on the subject....

 

[grinder76]

When I first started lifting at 17, there was a huge national level competitor at the gym I joined. He probably had the worst form of everyone there. He threw around insane poundage and as an impressionable teen, I wanted to be just like him. Well, by 18 I was in constant pain from trying to emulate this guy. At 18 my forearms, wrists, shoulders, and lower back should not have felt like that. I didn't understand why that guy wasn't in a wheelchair yet. Now, at 36, I understand some people are just genetically gifted. I'm not against loosing up form a bit, especially when squeezing out some extra reps, but just be reasonable.

I can totally understand the 40+ year olds on here talking about their joint pain. between sloppy form when I was younger and competitive powerlifting, I am on my way as well. These days I'd rather outlast than outlift. I have obtained just as good results (if not better) with lighter weights and strict(er) form. I'm no Jay Cutler, so take it for what's worth, but be safe, listen to your body and stay in one piece.

 

[cal]

Curious how heavy Tom prince trained..looked like he could move anything...

 

[Moen]

Jay Cutler has the best form out of any BB'er I've seen train. Perfect stimulation, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[chris250]

when I was younger I used very loose form. Explosive, kinda continious tension the whole way there. but as I got older and wiser (I think..lol) i went to a slower, negative, with a controlled positive. Using less weight, with good form. (I think)...I will go heavy, but controlled and most times never go below 9-10 reps.

 

[sloh]

To go against the grain here, doesn't Kai train with super super strict form on all exercises? Any video I've ever seen of him shows him lifting with extremely strict movements.

he may train lighter now with strict form but if you look at his training vids with oscar arden around the time he made the tremendous gains in size, he goes brutally heavy and with cheating involved

 

[cal]

he may train lighter now with strict form but if you look at his training vids with oscar arden around the time he made the tremendous gains in size, he goes brutally heavy and with cheating involved

This is correct.

 

[pryde]

All I ever got from loose form was achy joints.

 

[Simpllyhuge]

In pumping iron everyone was staying in the bottom portion of the press.

Lats when you were talking about that guy in your gym, everything made sense to me besides the chest. What else do you think he should be doing besides benching and hammer strength ? I would add incline dumbbells and or dips, but just curious what you thought was sufficient?

 

[BurgerKing13]

Queefer

Great point ! I fully agree.
I'm 51 and used to compete in PowerLifting in my 20's then BB in my 30's
My tendons and joints can't take long rest periods with max heavy weights any more.
Neck back elbows knees kill me.

 

[onynx4]

would say whatever works for you. every persons body mechanics are different. as long as you are truly working the muscle, doesent matter how you get there.