LOOSE FORM (PROS)

[LATS]

over the years i have had the opportunity to see many pros train. (ronnie coleman, kevin levrone, chris cormier, eddie ellwood, john citrone, shari kamali, paul dillett, tom prince, nasser el sonbaty, tom platz, aaron baker, flex wheeler, sergio oliva, lee haney, samir , and dean capouto.. i hope i did not forget anyone lol) i have seen these gentleman train up close and with the exception of aaron baker, most use a very fast, non lock out, loose type form. i have never seen a really strict form coming from the guys at the top. i have talked about this in the past but, we have phil, mikes, big a and wylde on the board more and they have seen their share of top national and pros train.....platz said to me outside golds a few years back "it is all about tension" who knows..maybe he is right.

 

[TESTOSTERONE]

I believe Strict form will causes more injury..I too have seen many top guys train..it is all about the pump.
~~~~>Test.

 

[Jimbo]

Form was the only thing that Yates focused on. He ended up tearing up his bicep and something else I think

 

[wolverine]

I agree, but you also have to remember that these guys are at the top for a reason and that is genetics. What I mean is that they could train sloppier than the average person and still grow nicely. They just respond better to stimulus than most of us.

I do think that always adhearing to strict form limits you from going heavy. Sometimes you need a little cheat movement.

 

[MikeS]

A guy (ie - pro) with great genetics can utelize any form of intensity and grow like a weed. Ive seen guys with gift genetics
train one bodypart heavy as shit always; and for some reason
train a seperate part always light as shit, isolation style for lots of reps. And both bodyparts are big as shit. No rhyme or reason. Basically-its doesnt even matter what they do - they grow.
IMO the guys have no idea what works best-and it really doesnt matter.

Pesonally I use loose form. I do explosive movements, no real negatives, and even when my form is tight-it looks like shit.
But I go above and beyond what I can handle by loosening up my form. Example-I can curl 70-80s DB pretty descent, to go to 90s I have to cheat some. But I get them up to my ears, and the effort it takes blows me away! Better than just stopping at the 70-80s for sure!

just my opinion.

 

[LATS]

I AGREE... SOME PEOPLE IT JUST DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THEY DO. i have one guy who trains in the gym i own. he has the best looking delts for his frame. very rounded lateral heads and very vascular. his lateral raises are done in the worst possible form that could not even hit (or so it would seem) his lateral head. he does his behind the neck presses with a very wide grip and does not bring the bar any lower than the top of his head. the movement can not be more that a couple of inchs. but, great delts. his chest workout consists of benches and hammer strength work. again, his grip is very wide on his benches...past the grooves (he is only 5'6). he uses straps to keep his hands from slipping. the bar will touch the chest and maybe go 4-6 inches from there. yet , his chest is very full and he has no shoulder problems with the wide grip. he does his back work with alot of dumbell rows. he will go to 130 to 150 pounds. the bell will never touch the chest.. he will only pull half way up. yet has a great back.... so, he could get great bi's from just masturbating.lol
i try to use very strict form with slow negatives. it just feels right to me....tom prince one time said that "you have to cheat to put on the meat". many years ago in the mid 80's i had the opportunity to meet my personal hero, sergio. he was training in his gym in chicago. i asked him why he did very short movements. he simply stated " i can use more weight not moving it too far". lol ooookkkayy... simple logic. but, who could argue? i guess as long as their is tension on the muscle and it is being tore down, yuo will get a stimulus for growth.

 

[Macdaddy]

I agree with Sergio to a point. The other day I saw a guy on the leg press with 12 plates a side and his range of motion was vurtually non existant!! I'm not even sure if he did a rep. But he got up and was huffing and puffing. Thats just not productive. You need to get enough movement to hit the muscle belly.

The other one I love is the guys that look like they are doing the clean and jerk when curling dumbbells. They need like 10 feet clearance in every direction or they would knock someone over.

LOL!!

 

[JETHRO TULL]

LOOSE FORM..NO KIDDING!

I HAD TO LAUGH WHEN I SAW PAUL DILLET TALKING ABOUT HIS 'GOOD FORM' ............HE WAS DOING CABLE TRICEP EXTENSIONS WHILE HE WAS TALKING.....AND HE WAS JUST HEAVING THE SHIT AROUND .....HAHAHAHAHA....ABSOLUTELY CRAPPY FORM! ...YET THERE HE WAS BIG AS SHIT! I HAVE A FRIEND.....HE'S ON THIS BOARD AND HE LOOKS TO ME LIKE HE CHEATS ALL HIS EXERSIZES....AND HE HAS A TREMENDOUS PHYSIQUE. I EVEN TRIED TO TRAIN THAT WAY.....BUT, I AM TALL AND END UP HURTING MYSELF. I THINK ITS ALL IN THE WAY GOD MAKES YOU. IN A WORD.....GENETICS.

 

[patk]

Form is not always important!

I believe that is good to concentrate on good form to an extent. When you're lifting lighter weights or doing high intensity or superset training you should pay a little more attention to your form. But, when it's time to go heavy......if your going heavy enough you don't have time to think about the form....you need to just worry about getting the weight up.....aside from heavy squats of course! I do believe if you want to put on some size that you have to go heavy enough where you have to cheat. I've tried training both ways and that's what helps me put on the meat anyway.....just my .02! Take care.

patk

 

[Paul Bunyan]

I've seen guys train both ways and get great results. Some like light weights with higher reps and strict form and others use heavy weight and looser form. There are as many different training methods as there are people training. That's why it's so hard to give people training advice. Especially when sitting behind a computer.

PB

 

[shawnfreaks]

I've seen people train different ways. Whatever works, works i guess.

For me, during bulking cycles i usually use worse form and a heavier weight. Then my fat ass can hurl the plates around better. That time of the year is just about adding mass. Nothing else.

When Cutting time comes, then the weight usually goes down but the form is much more strict. Hell, i usually spend a good 30 minutes a day just flexing/posing. I think this really helps to shape and define the muscles.

 

[patk]

I agree....

I agree with shawn......I think that daily flexing and posing is important and makes a difference in ones physique. take care.

patk

 

[Johnny Bravo]

i disagree totally

I use pretty strict form, I want to work out the bodypart I'm trying to. not 6 others just to push the weight. I look at the person doing it, If I saw Jay Cutler or Keven L. doing loose form I would not question it, but for some reason most (not all) people who use loose form , do it to try to impress people in the gym, but the thing is....They dont! Besides I think your just settin yourself up to get hurt. Just my opinion.

 

[MikeS]

Its so much shit when I always see all these articles where the pros say how important it is to use super strict form. They actually do the opposite. I do use good form on isloation/pump sets. But the heavy stuff-Im concerned about moving weight. People say you are not concentrating on the muscle you are targeting. But compound excercises will make you bigger and stronger than isloation-and more so for the more muscle groups
used during that exercise. Supports the thinking, that using all your guts to move a heavy weight will be good for growth. But ALWAYS, different things work for different folks. Use whats right for YOU. I can say I have seen Johnny B (above) lift and he uses huge weight with nice form. And a teriffic physique to show for it.
OK, John, now how about that $25 you said youd give me for saying that (!) LOL

 

[Johnny Bravo]

OK Ok Ok ok

I'll pay you at the gym, tonight. ok I have to return the favor to mike S. I have seen this 40 something yr old bench 405 for reps on incline bench press. OK Mike we are even.

 

[MikeS]

Re: OK Ok Ok ok

I'll pay you at the gym, tonight. ok I have to return the favor to mike S. I have seen this 40 something yr old bench 405 for reps on incline bench press. OK Mike we are even.

We're even now! lol!

 

[Ozmrolympia]

I have tried both ways, and loose form works for me. Slow reps just dont do it. There are ways to do the loose style correctly. My way is a lot more xplosive than normal speed reps.

 

[wyldeone]

My take!

I have had the oppurtunity to train with quite a few pro's and top national level guys and althoe they all train differently the majority of the new pro's all train using the highly effective H.I.T. training method as it is a high intensity training program and althoe you don't train as heavily as normal the workouts are brutal as there is minimal rest periods between working sets. Also i have really focused on refining my physique in the last few years as to only do 1 heavy compound movement per bodypart and then work on secondary movements to bring out the asthetics and shape! Not that i dissagree with the "old school" methods as i have alot of respect for the sergio olivia's and arnolds but the new bread trains with just as much intensity just using different techniques. Personally I really respond to volume and drop sets as well as peak contraction movements as do most that i have switched over to this method of training. I suggest that you all give it a try as you will be very pleased with the pumps as that is what it is all about and your less prone to injury with this training style. sure i can still bench 405 for reps but with my reconstructed shoulder do i want to? HELL NO! i would rather warm up my shoulders and pecs properly and then do 4 working sets of dumbell presses with 120's or 130's for 8-10 rep's and the last working set do a drop set and cut the weight in half after the initial 130's for 8 reps down to 65-70's for another 15-20 rep's with a good peak contraction then onto inclines,peck deck or dumbell fly's and finnish off with cable cross-overs! that is a typical chest exercise using H.I.T. with minimal rest periods between sets! trsut me gang try it and you'll love it. wyldeone.

 

[markandspike]

calling all pro's

i know this is an old thread but would love some of the current big boys on this site to comment on this subject.

Also Lats waiting for some more of your top stories. Keep them coming please.

 

[thebigguy84]

WOW this is def a old thread! But I would like to read more responses. I lots of times use the move the heavy shit method with decent form. But when I do use higher volume proper form and I like to squeeze and actually feel that muscle working feel a better contraction. All depends on the body part I am working. Most studies that I have read about have shown that more Time Under Tension and more load on the muscle will create more breakdown and better growth.So sometimes limiting your range of motion while going heavy may be the best method.When it comes time to get ready for a show I like to take less rest in between sets and always focus on excellent form and proper muscle contractions.I think there is a right time and a right place for each lifting style. Just My .02Cents