Low or high volume... finally an answer that makes sense!

[benner]

sometimes i perform 4 sets of an exercise......other times i perform 2-3 sets of an exercise


maybe i might do db rows......other times i may mix things up and do cable rows......sometimes 12 reps......sometimes 8 reps......keep the muscle guessing......get plenty of rest......rotate your exercises......use drop sets and rest pause periodically to break through a plateu......but most of all


KEEP THE BODY GUESSING!!!!!!!!! THAT IS HOW YOU WILL SHOCK YOUR SYSTEM AND KICK START NEW GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT IN YOUR BODY!!!

Yes instinctive training. I live by it for the most part. However there was a recent thread by Phil I believe (if Im wrong, sorry, and please dont flame me too much) that changes in workouts are unneccessary and you simply need to increase workload to break through a plateau. Lots of debate here I guess

 

[betito]

Don´t look for a number... the key is BALANCE between rest nutrition and training. If training volume goes up and you can adjust the other variables so you can keep progresing then you are good to go, the key is staying in a region were there is a balance that keeps you recovering and progresing, if you can´t rise the volume and balancing other variables to keep recovering and growing then don´t do it, look at how Lats keeps the volume low to avoid geting burnt out... it can´t be that hard to understand....

As an example Mountaindog uses high volume but he adds periodization and deloading phases and that brings the balance back to the equation, but the problem is when the only change you do is adding sets and more sets without changing anything else... that is a nosense.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

clearly there is no absolute.
"ask a hundred different people whats best training method and get a 100 different answers."
i have found logic to work best. if you can train less and get same results or better as training more then it makes sense to train less. after time i have been able to find that number of reps and sets that give me just as good gains or better as higher volume and i am less tired and recover better and spend less time in the gym...

i haven't lifted a weight in 3 months but i used to
i need to get back in the freakin gym... and when i do it will be low volume for me:headbang:
-JS

 

[mountaindog1]

Don´t look for a number... the key is BALANCE between rest nutrition and training. If training volume goes up and you can adjust the other variables so you can keep progresing then you are good to go, the key is staying in a region were there is a balance that keeps you recovering and progresing, if you can´t rise the volume and balancing other variables to keep recovering and growing then don´t do it, look at how Lats keeps the volume low to avoid geting burnt out... it can´t be that hard to understand....

As an example Mountaindog uses high volume but he adds periodization and deloading phases and that brings the balance back to the equation, but the problem is when the only change you do is adding sets and more sets without changing anything else... that is a nosense.

Exactly, you don't just mindlessly add sets. You find ways to increase intensity, and MAKE the body adapt. I could get real deep into adaptation, but suffice to say, that is the bottom line. This will not happen unless you eat correctly, rest correctly, or are a genetic freak. If you do low volume without the needed intensity, you are wasting your time, if you do high volume without the needed intensity, you are wasting your time there too.

So there is no way around busting your ass if you want to keep progressing, and there is no way around you needing to back off occasionally and periodize training.

JM

 

[Lenny]

Exactly, you don't just mindlessly add sets. You find ways to increase intensity, and MAKE the body adapt. I could get real deep into adaptation, but suffice to say, that is the bottom line. This will not happen unless you eat correctly, rest correctly, or are a genetic freak. If you do low volume without the needed intensity, you are wasting your time, if you do high volume without the needed intensity, you are wasting your time there too.

So there is no way around busting your ass if you want to keep progressing, and there is no way around you needing to back off occasionally and periodize training.

JM

Exactly, the bottom line is that your need to bring the "I" to each workout (I = INTENSITY), then recovery properly so you can bring it again. I loved MTNDG Training because it was INTENSE, then I went into a lower volume training and kept it INTENSE...just need to some cruise times tossed in there so you do not completely burned yourself to hell! Like he said, both realms of training should be intense or why do it! Intensity is a progressive tool in itself!

 

[SL1CED]

What do you guys mean by cruise?

 

[btech]

What do you guys mean by cruise?

Has to do with DC training.

 

[Phidias]

well now that i have posted, every b-boy hater will come out of the woodworks and i will have to argue with 500 motherfuckers that are "smaller" than me. aint that a bitch :banghead:

No matter how many boring threads come up everyday, your posts are always a breeze of fresh air, Brad... Just reading a few lines of yours makes me forget instantly the typical "how much dbol should i take"!!

Somehow I have the same smile on my face with Phil's wicked sense of humor...

 

[b-boy]

No matter how many boring threads come up everyday, your posts are always a breeze of fresh air, Brad... Just reading a few lines of yours makes me forget instantly the typical "how much dbol should i take"!!

Somehow I have the same smile on my face with Phil's wicked sense of humor...

ha ha (in bold) ditto bro! me too

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Oh man!!

ha ha (in bold) ditto bro! me too

Come on Brad and JC.......I am just the puppet.........you are my masters........

 

[concreteguy]

liar liar pants on fire

clearly there is no absolute.
"ask a hundred different people whats best training method and get a 100 different answers."
i have found logic to work best. if you can train less and get same results or better as training more then it makes sense to train less. after time i have been able to find that number of reps and sets that give me just as good gains or better as higher volume and i am less tired and recover better and spend less time in the gym...

i haven't lifted a weight in 3 months but i used to
i need to get back in the freakin gym... and when i do it will be low volume for me:headbang:
-JS

Didn't you just tell B-Boy you did inclines the other night and got no more from upper pec development than doing declines:naughty: "BAD, BAD JOHNNY!

 

[concreteguy]

"how much dbol should i take"!!

Somehow I have the same smile on my face with Phil's wicked sense of humor...

I have asked Phil the same question. He told me to drill out the holes in my salt shaker and start sprinkling them on everything I eat.

 

[hellraiser27]

I have literally had people want to quit after 1 week..........or change routines after a month.......or tell me its not working......that they are not big yet........I attribute this to the nonsensical advertising out there lately with various products.......

OMG this is soo true! Im a personal trainer and people always ask me 'how did you get your arms to look like that or how did you get your legs so ripped ect'
And I say 'by doing the exact same exercises I'm showing you. I just did them constantly over and over consistently week after week, month after month, watching my diet etc.'
Or then someone says "Well you do steroids don't you, thats why you look like that?" sigh
I feel like saying 'yeah just do steroids, its just that easy'

I think the biggest common denomenator for good BBs is that they figure out what works and they stick to it . Going to the gym and continually busting it out, being happy with small consistant gains. Sticking to the diet no matter how many people say"how can you eat that everyday"
Oh yeah, and steroids help once you can do all that first. Not before!

O

 

[Thor]

HA HA

I feel like saying 'yeah just do steroids, its just that easy'
Thats what I have said to people ! BTW guys GREAT THREAD !

 

[LATS]

as is ated before.. i dont think high volume cant work.. it does.. tyoo many have had success with it to rule that out.. but outside variables make up for alot of difference.. like i stated.. work.. eating.. rest.. mental stress.. your training needs to be geared to your lifestyle.. and i can tell ya from owning my own gyms, most do not have the outside lifestyle to do high volume training and be successful at it..

when i worked in the gym biz i could do high volume.. i sat on my ass for 60 hours a week.. took off in the afternoon and trained.. came back and could eat pretty regular.. and sit.. relax a bit..

but now that i am doing a job where i stand or walk for 8 straight hours.. lift heavy objects fairly regular.. cant take too many breaks.. come home and throw dinner down my throat and have to do work sometimes around the house.. plus help with homework and take kids to piano, dance, and other activities.. then try and hit the weights before i go to bed.. there is no way high volume would be condusive for me.. no way.. and many others are in the same boat..

as is aid.. YOUR TRAINING NEEDS TO BE BASED ON YOUR LIFESTYLE AND WHAT IT REALISTICALLY ALLOWS.. not the other way around..

 

[Phidias]

YOUR TRAINING NEEDS TO BE BASED ON YOUR LIFESTYLE AND WHAT IT REALISTICALLY ALLOWS.. not the other way around..

That's the bottom line IMO.

BUT at the time... wasn't Sergio Oliva working in a very demanding job physically wise (just from the top of my head... can't remember which one)? Yet he was able to build the body we all know!

Oh wait, I forgot one thing... his out of this world genetics...

 

[bigfatandugly]

for me i have found the best gains i have made is when i use a periodisation type of approach to working out.

when i was taking in less supplements and less food, i reduced my volume and the number of workouts and tried to maintain as best i could what i had.

as i increased the amount of supps i used, and the amount of food i ate, i was then able to use more volume and hit the muscle more times more often in the same time frame as the first scenario, and this is when i made my best gains. that is my total number of working sets, and the number of workouts i'd do for each muscle would increase at the same rate. once i started to feel a bit run down, i'd take the time off necessary to recoup. the trick is to listen to your body and know when to back off.

thats what i have always equated to intensity- the ability to increase my workload, and not necessarily the poundages associated with it- although if you are doing it right, both should increase at the same pace. as long as i could maintain my strength thru my workout as i increased my workload that was what was important, and thats where i made great gains.

but what i found that impacted my ability to perform the workload in question was an increase of my supps. it seemed as my supp use increased, so did my ability to perform work, and the gains made from it.

so for me higher volume in the workout itself,and more workouts in general as my supp use and food intake increased gave me the best gains.

all in all i'd say it's all relative.

 

[comedycentral]

its funny you mention jobs LATS if you look at a lot of the guys from the 50's etc who trained 3 days per week heavy and basic they often had physical jobs. reg park was a steel worker in the mills. 50+ hours of heavy labour work.

sergio was a cop in chicago i think

 

[Johnny Smiles]

ok ok

Didn't you just tell B-Boy you did inclines the other night and got no more from upper pec development than doing declines:naughty: "BAD, BAD JOHNNY!

i have lifted ONCE in 3 months

and btw, i wanted to report that those inclines really got my front delts sore

-JS

 

[the student]

Question for Lats

When you say 4-6 sets per muscle, how did that work? The back is considered a muscle group yet has much more going on than biceps or triceps. You have back erectors, muscles to pull the arm back (upper back) and pull elbows down (lats, the "width" muscles.) I like to do deads, something for upper back, then something for lats/width. Should each get its own 4-6 or is that to be the total back workout? Thanks.