Low or high volume... finally an answer that makes sense!

[LATS]

i agree thebrick.. the other issues are 1) what type of job do you have? 2) are you able to eat in a disciplined manner with your lifestyle? 3) what other variables in your life might "drain" you mentally or physically?.. this all adds up and takes its toll on the body let alone intense weight workouts..

many see the workouts of jay cutler ect and try and duplicate them.. the only problem is they dont have his genetics.. they dont have his lifestyle..
can you afford the "supplements" that jay takes?
can you eat like jay ?
can you go home and take naps after your workouts?
can you take it easy for most of the day and relax a bit before your workouts?
do you have jays parents?
were you completely jacked by the time you were 19 and only training a few years..

if not then what makes you think you can do the same amount of sets as jay and not overtrain??? YOU CANT !!! guys this is common sense.. jay does 12 sets a bodypart.. many of them are not too failure.. he knows his limits and 12 sets, for say chest, is it.. so why do you do 12 sets???

now if you are the lucky ones that can take in the food jsy does.. take the supplements that jay does.. able to stay home and rest for most of the day.. take naps when needed .. and have similar genetics then go for it.. high volume it is.. but if not.. ill ask again.. WHAT MAKES YOU SO SPECIAL..?

trust me.. high volume can work.. no doubt.. but you better damn well have a "easy" lifestyle..

 

[Equalizer]

guys.. the key is too avoid overtraining.. the issue with that is EVERYONE OVER TRAINS!!! now that being said, why are you so special..? what i mean is i hear guys say that they require high volume.. i am not telling them they are wrong as it does work for some people.. but the issue again is are you overtrained.. and please dont say that you FEEL FINE.. that is not the best indictor of being overtrained..

i injure myself all the time.. dealing with a arm injury now because of doing a upright row with too many sets.. i did three sets.. all were perfect.. did two more "just because it felt good/right".. now i am forced to lay off training for a about a week because of a forearm flexor that is so painful i can barely grab anything.. felt great.. two hours later quite a bit of pain.. 4 days later and still no go.. had my doc look at it and give me anti inflams.. so what should i have done..? well get out while it was good.. leave some in the tank..

i agree with phil that people are different.. but anytime i have tried a higher volume a wake up the next morning exhausted and not wanting to train.. any time i went in hit it hard and left quick (my wife always says "wow that was quick.. taking it easy tonight" ) i know i had a good one.. get out and grow..

two weeks ago my training partner (i have a new one.. wants to train with me at the house and is new too it) and i went in to do chest shoulders tri.. we did 3 sets of decline hammer press, 1 set of reverse grip smith machine press (for "upper" chest.. i know i know.. but i like the pec pump), 2 sets of wide grip uprights, 2 sets of partial side laterals , 3 sets of incline extensions.. done heavy but quick.. when we were done he said "thats it?" "shouldnt we do more" ect.. i said no and trust me.. well he left here and went to a key club he belongs too and did numerous other sets.. he told me this the next day.. then said "in order for me too grow man, i have to do alot of sets.." i said "really? you are 5'9 160 pounds.. how much growing have ya done"? he said "i started a year ago at 152 pounds.. been pounding the weight gainers and creatine for about 6 months".. yea.. he is right...it is working for him..:banghead:

there have been tow studies posted on md over the last couple of months by two different university and institutes .. both arrived at the best number of sets for hypertrophy.. BOTH ARRIVED AT 4-6 SETS PER BODYPART.. after this they found a great diminishing returns component..

Lats, Is that study your referring to the one that states 40-60 reps per bodypart twice per week was best for optimum results?

 

[LATS]

OH BRUTHA.. ILL HAVE TO LOOK IN THE MORNING.. cant remember any rep range given.. but the sets were justtaken to failure.. will look and post tomorrow.. gotta get some shut eye..

 

[tri-terror]

I wasted my youth (as far as BB is concerned), chasing weider principles around. 12-20 sets for chest, back and legs once a week and maybe 10-12 for bis, tris and shoulders. I never got my bench above 205, never squatted more than 225, never really moved any weight at all because I was always fucking burnt OUT! I had/have fairly decent BB genetics I think and never got over 185-190lbs because I didn't know what I was doing. Looked good at the beach I guess but that's not what I wanted at all.

Fast forward ten years, I'm in my early thirties and finally smart enough to listen to my body. Started using way lower volume and heavier weights in 9 months time I've done more growing than the whole time I was lifting from the ages of 16-22. Now Phil has me on the path to riteousness! :headbang:

 

[lightofmyboner]

i agree thebrick.. the other issues are 1) what type of job do you have? 2) are you able to eat in a disciplined manner with your lifestyle? 3) what other variables in your life might "drain" you mentally or physically?.. this all adds up and takes its toll on the body let alone intense weight workouts..

many see the workouts of jay cutler ect and try and duplicate them.. the only problem is they dont have his genetics.. they dont have his lifestyle..
can you afford the "supplements" that jay takes?
can you eat like jay ?
can you go home and take naps after your workouts?
can you take it easy for most of the day and relax a bit before your workouts?
do you have jays parents?
were you completely jacked by the time you were 19 and only training a few years..

if not then what makes you think you can do the same amount of sets as jay and not overtrain??? YOU CANT !!! guys this is common sense.. jay does 12 sets a bodypart.. many of them are not too failure.. he knows his limits and 12 sets, for say chest, is it.. so why do you do 12 sets???

now if you are the lucky ones that can take in the food jsy does.. take the supplements that jay does.. able to stay home and rest for most of the day.. take naps when needed .. and have similar genetics then go for it.. high volume it is.. but if not.. ill ask again.. WHAT MAKES YOU SO SPECIAL..?

trust me.. high volume can work.. no doubt.. but you better damn well have a "easy" lifestyle..

Correct.

Every stress on the body takes adaptational energy in order to recover from. Your CNS is involved in literally everything you do, from lifting weights to coping with the stresses of your job.

 

[Vinman66]

are there people out there that benefit from only training once or twice per week ?
so maybe a full body workout once per week ,and using the extra off time to conserve energy for the body to repair ?

im suffering from adrenal fatigue and am wondering if i can take this approach rather than stop training altogether

Well I would train twice a week and divide it into one day of upper body and one day of legs/calves. Covering the entire body in one workout isn't realistic, all you would have time for is maybe 2 to 3 sets per muscle group. Resistance training shouldn't exceed 60 minutes since around that time your body tends to enter a catabolic state.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

Well I would train twice a week and divide it into one day of upper body and one day of legs/calves. Covering the entire body in one workout isn't realistic, all you would have time for is maybe 2 to 3 sets per muscle group. Resistance training shouldn't exceed 60 minutes since around that time your body tends to enter a catabolic state.

i usually do 3-4 sets per body part
-JS

 

[mountaindog1]

Ok..so I have to throw my two cents in here..

I think there is a HUGE IRRATIONAL fear of overtraining. It's amazing. I see it more and more every year. It used to be doing 4 sets an exercise was to much, then 3 was..now it's if you do hack squats in addition to regular squats that's too much..now it's if you do more than one set to failure it's too much, oh and drop sets are way too taxing too..don't do them either....it just amazes me. I had a guy tell me he had an awesome back workout last month. Told me he did one set of dumbell rows to warm up then 2 sets of 8....that's it..that was the whole back workout. If you are a beginner I can see this., but only then. Come on..seriously..hell let's all just start doing one set a bodypart. That was guy was lardass by the way who thinks he is huge and muscular.

Most people will not venture into an overreaching or overtrained state from 10sets of chest if there nutrition is on point, and their rest is on point. I have worked my butt off my whole life with 60 hour plus a week jobs, with no time for naps, just to get some background on me. so I am not one of those folks who can live like Jay.

The key to all of this to me, is:
1) Periodization - you cant go full blast all the time, but you can't train like a pussy either. Do the same shit all the time day in and day out, and see how far that gets you. I have trained my whole life in gyms with people like this. You see the same guys on Monday doing the same shit, the chest crowd. Then Tuesday the arm guys come in. The same shit everytime. They all look the same all year round. Go full blast for a period then back off, then get back it at. Simple.
2) When you are going full blast (for 6-12 week cycles) but ass. It can be from using heavier weight, a little more volume, going to failure..etc..there are a million ways to increase intensity. That is what you have to do to cause your body to make adaptations..

Oh and another thing---don't live based on genetic freaks routines..don't use that as your evidence. For example - Ronnie trains with a shitload
of volume. Guess what, you and I can't do that. Dorian trained with a very low number of sets. You think he might have had superior genetics? Most of the people I know that copied that training style live with tons of injuries and have major tendon ruptures...experiment, find out what works for you, but don't get dogmatic and think either high volume or low volume is better....we are different..

and for the love of God, please stop whining about how anything over 2 sets is overtraining...

JM

 

[b-boy]

Ok..so I have to throw my two cents in here..

I think there is a HUGE IRRATIONAL fear of overtraining. It's amazing. I see it more and more every year. It used to be doing 4 sets an exercise was to much, then 3 was..now it's if you do hack squats in addition to regular squats that's too much..now it's if you do more than one set to failure it's too much, oh and drop sets are way too taxing too..don't do them either....it just amazes me. I had a guy tell me he had an awesome back workout last month. Told me he did one set of dumbell rows to warm up then 2 sets of 8....that's it..that was the whole back workout. If you are a beginner I can see this., but only then. Come on..seriously..hell let's all just start doing one set a bodypart. That was guy was lardass by the way who thinks he is huge and muscular.

Most people will not venture into an overreaching or overtrained state from 10sets of chest if there nutrition is on point, and their rest is on point. I have worked my butt off my whole life with 60 hour plus a week jobs, with no time for naps, just to get some background on me. so I am not one of those folks who can live like Jay.

The key to all of this to me, is:
1) Periodization - you cant go full blast all the time, but you can't train like a pussy either. Do the same shit all the time day in and day out, and see how far that gets you. I have trained my whole life in gyms with people like this. You see the same guys on Monday doing the same shit, the chest crowd. Then Tuesday the arm guys come in. The same shit everytime. They all look the same all year round. Go full blast for a period then back off, then get back it at. Simple.
2) When you are going full blast (for 6-12 week cycles) but ass. It can be from using heavier weight, a little more volume, going to failure..etc..there are a million ways to increase intensity. That is what you have to do to cause your body to make adaptations..

Oh and another thing---don't live based on genetic freaks routines..don't use that as your evidence. For example - Ronnie trains with a shitload
of volume. Guess what, you and I can't do that. Dorian trained with a very low number of sets. You think he might have had superior genetics? Most of the people I know that copied that training style live with tons of injuries and have major tendon ruptures...experiment, find out what works for you, but don't get dogmatic and think either high volume or low volume is better....we are different..

and for the love of God, please stop whining about how anything over 2 sets is overtraining...

JM

:yeahthat: :headbang:

I have done it all, and it basically boils down to periodization, you can't go balls to the wall all the fucking time, smart guys like DC know this, thats why he blast and cruises with DC workouts. I agree with john that its all about intensity and that comes in many forms.

well now that i have posted, every b-boy hater will come out of the woodworks and i will have to argue with 500 motherfuckers that are "smaller" than me. aint that a bitch :banghead:

 

[b-boy]

BTW phidias, great thread bro, the main board needed this. threads are boring the life out of me lately, thanks bro!!!!!! :headbang:

 

[maldorf]

:
I have done it all, and it basically boils down to periodization, you can't go balls to the wall all the fucking time,

I agree. I think it comes down to a fine balance of planning your periodiaztion out ahead of time but at the same time relying on biofeedback to guide you. Once youve been at it awhile you can tell when its time to back off and when its time to step it up. I made the mistake for many many years of training ball to the wall every damn week, all of the time. I would do that till basically I either got sick, run down immune system, or I got an injury. I was bullheaded and wouldnt listen to my body.

 

[Tough Old Man]

What does 4-6 sets mean? Is it

135x10
225x5
275x5
315x5
365x10

Or, does it entail doing your warmup sets, followed by 4 sets of 315 at 15 reps, 10 reps, 7 reps, 4 reps?

So many variables/factors are involved in deciding what's best for the individual, though. Training to failure, rest days per week, nutrition, supplements, what else are you training that day, which muscle group you are training, how heavy is the weight, individual goals, etc etc etc.

I believe Big A would say the last set to failure and done 365 x 6-8 or for you 10

 

[benner]

Muscle Fibre Test

Interesting read bro, thanks. I will have to agree that low volume/high intensity has worked well for me. People overtrain ALL THE TIME, and they wonder why theyr'e not getting bigger. Recuperation in my opinion is almost more important than the muscle tearing, just makes sense

 

[Ulamalop]

well now that i have posted, every b-boy hater will come out of the woodworks and i will have to argue with 500 motherfuckers that are "smaller" than me. aint that a bitch

Well..I'm smaller than you, but I ain't a hater. I know you have experience with both DC training, and the type of training John Meadows outlines...so, my question to you is, would you do a DC blast, then, after a cruise, do a program with set/rep ranges outlined by John Meadows?

 

[comedycentral]

after a few months of dual factor training which basically hits each bodypart for few sets twice every 8-9 days and not to failure.

i have just switched over to dorian yates routine. heavy low to med reps with 5-6 sets per bodypart.
i think personally my body responds well to heavy basic compounds for a couple of sets taken to failure

 

[Shelby]

My body responds best to the Lazy Boy and coconut cream pie.

 

[comedycentral]

LATS a question?

i re read your post recently about you watching a friend train 3 sets using the 3 different rep ranges.

i assume from this post your friend trained 3 days on 1 off then repeat.

how would you advise someone who is natty wanting to put back lean mass,

do you think the natty body can handle

day 1
chest/shoulder/tri

day2
back

day 3 off

day 4
legs

day 5
chest/shoulder/tri

day 6 off

day 7
back

day 7
legs

 

[eroc613]

BTW phidias, great thread bro, the main board needed this. threads are boring the life out of me lately, thanks bro!!!!!! :headbang:

X2.....for some reason I just can't get exicted about posting anymore.

 

[brisk walk]

sometimes i perform 4 sets of an exercise......other times i perform 2-3 sets of an exercise


maybe i might do db rows......other times i may mix things up and do cable rows......sometimes 12 reps......sometimes 8 reps......keep the muscle guessing......get plenty of rest......rotate your exercises......use drop sets and rest pause periodically to break through a plateu......but most of all


KEEP THE BODY GUESSING!!!!!!!!! THAT IS HOW YOU WILL SHOCK YOUR SYSTEM AND KICK START NEW GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT IN YOUR BODY!!!

 

[b-boy]

Well..I'm smaller than you, but I ain't a hater. I know you have experience with both DC training, and the type of training John Meadows outlines...so, my question to you is, would you do a DC blast, then, after a cruise, do a program with set/rep ranges outlined by John Meadows?

LOL first off bro, my post was saying i whenever i post i always have to argue till im blue in the face with a bunch of b-boy haters over something i posted and the silly thing is they are all smaller than me :naughty:

now your question... I like to switch up my training, if i did do a DC blast i would then take about a week or so off completely from the gym then go into a johns workout. Johns workout is a progressive workout in all.. load, sets and intensity. But truth is if i was doing DC program then i would stick with it, blast, cruise, blast and so on. No need to change programs, just excersises and being sure to cruise when your body tells you.