Metformin/BIG A

[Nat]

BIG A I need your help again. Your the one man I can count on.

I know you like Metformin and I have read your article. But still have
a couple questions.

First can Metformin be useful post workout. I heard that Metformin slows
down the carb process and that is not what we want when we are trying
to replemish carbs.

Second is about using Metformin for carb loading before a show. I know the late Dan Duchaine mentioned the possibilities of using for super glycogen compensation. But again from what I read it seems to slow down carb absortion and not speed it up.

I thought if Metformin does slow down carb absortion would it just be better to use other glycogen disposal agents such as R-ALA, ALA, and Vanadyl Sulfate. Your help is much appreciated.

 

[Heavy_Lifter]

Oh god, I love my phenformin.

Yes, you can use it for super glycogen compensation in general. Someone with first-hand experience will have to chime in about pre-contest use.

I would avoid use post-workout - your body is already a sponge + any peptides one might be using.

 

[vadim_b1]

Ill say it again bro, use Avandia if you want something post-workout. Metformin will interfere with carb absorption, its just what it does. Its a cutting drug, thats what its best used for. (So you dont have to cut carbs so much).

 

[Nat]

Hey vadim I am taking your advice. Just a little confused about Dan Duchaine
theories on the stuff. But unless anybody says anything different (Big A) I will probably hold off Metformin in my pwo and carb up. Thanks guys. That could of messed me up big time...

 

[Heavy_Lifter]

Ill say it again bro, use Avandia if you want something post-workout. Metformin will interfere with carb absorption, its just what it does. Its a cutting drug, thats what its best used for. (So you dont have to cut carbs so much).

I haven’t handled carbs well sense early adolescence, when I suspect I developed some insulin sensitivity (“pre-diabetes”) issues from eating loads of shitty food. So for me, phen/met-formin are great drugs.

Again, I avoid using them post-work, for the reasons that you have stated.

 

[Heavy_Lifter]

So AVANDIA (rosiglitazone maleate) works in exactly the same manner as metformin, with the exception of slowing carb absorption from the intestine, right?

Any sponsors carry it?

 

[vadim_b1]

There are also several reasons on why Avandia is superior to metformin for bodybuilders:

1. No liver toxicity (long time metformin usage has been linked with liver enzyme elevation which suggests toxicity - combine that with oral steroids and you might have a problem).
2. Decrease of leptin levels - leads to appetite increase. Great news on a bulk, while metformin induced stomach irritation often leads to REDUCED appetite.
3. Rise of adiponectin levels - Adiponectin (also referred to as Acrp30, apM1) is a protein hormone that modulates a number of metabolic processes, including glucose regulation and fatty acid catabolism. Adiponectin is exclusively secreted from adipose tissue into the bloodstream and is very abundant in plasma relative to many hormones. Levels of the hormone are inversely correlated with body mass index (BMI). The hormone plays a role in the suppression of the metabolic derangements that may result in type 2 diabetes, obesity, atherosclerosis and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). This can actually help those of us on heavy cycles, suffering from low HDL and high LDL - decreasing our risk of heart disease.
4. Using metformin always carries a risk of lactic acidosis (however small) - a possibly lethal condition. Phenformin is actually much more dangerous in that respect as it is more likely to cause this condition, especially if combined with oral AAS, or if liver was already highly stressed.
5. Some studies on metformin suggested that it increases SHBG levels, and occupies the androgen receptor somehow. In fact theres a female competitor on another board that successfully used metformin to curb down virilization from using AAS. Avandia does not have this effect at all.

It doesnt work in the same way as metformin actually, the pathway is different. There is a preparation actually combining the two drugs for severe cases of type II diabetes.

As for Dan Duchaine, well he only had metformin to work with. (I believe), Avandia is still fairly new, not many people are even aware it exists.

 

[speedbacker]

There are also several reasons on why Avandia is superior to metformin for bodybuilders:

1. No liver toxicity (long time metformin usage has been linked with liver enzyme elevation which suggests toxicity - combine that with oral steroids and you might have a problem).
2. Decrease of leptin levels - leads to appetite increase. Great news on a bulk, while metformin induced stomach irritation often leads to REDUCED appetite.
3. Rise of adiponectin levels - Adiponectin (also referred to as Acrp30, apM1) is a protein hormone that modulates a number of metabolic processes, including glucose regulation and fatty acid catabolism. Adiponectin is exclusively secreted from adipose tissue into the bloodstream and is very abundant in plasma relative to many hormones. Levels of the hormone are inversely correlated with body mass index (BMI). The hormone plays a role in the suppression of the metabolic derangements that may result in type 2 diabetes, obesity, atherosclerosis and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). This can actually help those of us on heavy cycles, suffering from low HDL and high LDL - decreasing our risk of heart disease.
4. Using metformin always carries a risk of lactic acidosis (however small) - a possibly lethal condition. Phenformin is actually much more dangerous in that respect as it is more likely to cause this condition, especially if combined with oral AAS, or if liver was already highly stressed.
5. Some studies on metformin suggested that it increases SHBG levels, and occupies the androgen receptor somehow. In fact theres a female competitor on another board that successfully used metformin to curb down virilization from using AAS. Avandia does not have this effect at all.

It doesnt work in the same way as metformin actually, the pathway is different. There is a preparation actually combining the two drugs for severe cases of type II diabetes.

As for Dan Duchaine, well he only had metformin to work with. (I believe), Avandia is still fairly new, not many people are even aware it exists.

Thank you very much bro, I have been looking at Avandia for a while now. So would you recommend avandia postworkout?

 

[vadim_b1]

Thank you very much bro, I have been looking at Avandia for a while now. So would you recommend avandia postworkout?

I would have to try it myself first to recommend it. But the info on it looks very promising, and certainly superior to metformin. I also know people who had success with Avandia and will recommend it any day.

 

[speedbacker]

I would have to try it myself first to recommend it. But the info on it looks very promising, and certainly superior to metformin. I also know people who had success with Avandia and will recommend it any day.

Thanks. I want to try it, but I keep hearing about it supposedly increasing risk of heart disease. Then I just happened to be checking emails just a minute ago and saw a link that said "diabetes drug linked to heart disease" and I clicked on it and sure enough it was talking about Avandia. That is a bit disheartening, but who knows. Here's the article.

**broken link removed**

 

[Heavy_Lifter]

Very interesting. My thanks to vadim_b1 and others.

 

[Nat]

Vadim really appreciate you sharing your wealth of knowledge with us. I am definitely going to do some research on Avandia from what you said it does look real promising. I will post any good information I find. And I think your right with Dan Duchaine and he actually mentioned not knowing if Metformin would work for supercompensation, and he even recommended phenformin which of course we know was not the best choice. So I assume these drugs were relatively knew to him as well. Thanks again!