More of my thoughts on Cholesterol and where we go wrong

[Ulamalop]

This is why diabetics and people with bad fasting glucose need to be careful because it can lead to heart disease...that is one of the primary mechanisms right there.

Isn't this one of the reasons you advocate the use of GDA'a, like ALA for?

 

[Hymlock]

Great post!!

 

[mountaindog1]

This is why diabetics and people with bad fasting glucose need to be careful because it can lead to heart disease...that is one of the primary mechanisms right there.

Isn't this one of the reasons you advocate the use of GDA'a, like ALA for?

One of the reasons yes sir..also to get leaner, drive more nutrients into muscle, in some cases like ALA or r-ALA for liver health and to recycle antioxidants and so on

 

[mountaindog1]

HDL. So John, My Hdl normally hovers in the high 20's. It has been there as long as I have been checking which is long before i started any AAS. I have tried many different diets through the years but my HDL stays right around 28 and that is on or off AAS. (Lets not get into what tren does to it)...

So I have tried high fat diets with lower carbs, all good fats, omega 3 eggs, nuts, mac oil, olive oil, coconut oil etc. HDL raises slightly but only a few points. i have noticed when I am on higher fat diets my total cholesterol and ldl get high and when on lower fat diets my cholesterol and ldl go lower. My triglycerides are always low.

So do you have a recomendation to help get my HDL higher? I have been thinking of asking my DR to prescibe some niacin. Some guys I work with have had good luck with niacin raising their HDL.

Yea Niacin does some cool things...niaspan made me feel like I had a blowtorch on my face when I took it though..that flush killed me...anyways Niacin has been shown to increases LDL particle size and increase Apo A-1 which is also really good..BUT there have been recent studies..well I am thinking of one..AIM HIGH I think it was called where they used niacin and Statins and stopped it.....so niacin...who knows..evidence both ways..this is the tricky part about all this stuf...it literally doesn't matter what you believe, there is a study to back you up..lol..heck niaspan is probably cheap with a scrip so try it...I still favor diet, but genetics can be a powerful thing sometimes...

 

[mountaindog1]

Mountaindog, what you say is correct in every way. However, i just dont want the message to get lost that LDL or HDL are not important. The bottom line is that even when not looking at particle size every double blind placebo long term study shows that reducing LDL reduces cardiovascular accidents. When i was entering medical school, as long as your LDL was less than 130 it was considered "good." Then came long ten year study where they compared patients with no history or adverse risk of cardiovascular accidents and divided the group to patients that had LDL of 100-130 and the other group that was less than 100. After ten years, there was clear advantage that the less than 100 group fared much better.

Then they started dissecting the study and looked at data between the people that were between 70-100 and then ones that were less than 70. Guess what? the people that had less than 70 still fared better than the group that was 70-100.

You are right that HDL is they key. I rather have an HDL of 80 with LDL of 120 than LDL of 80 and HDL of 30. But if you can manage to boost your HDL to 60+ and keep LDLs low then you have the magic ticket

Thanks doc - I believe that the two areas to focus on the MOST in a lipid panel are HDL and Trigly. High triglycerides and high ldl = BAD news or high trygl. and Low HDL = even worse news..

Apolipoproteins are also proving to be very good - Apo B, Apo A etc. What are you thoughts on those..

Also i think the inflammation panel is REALLY good as well - hs-CRP, Fibrinogen, Myeloperoxidase..and there is another one I cant remember...

 

[rmtt]

Yea Niacin does some cool things...niaspan made me feel like I had a blowtorch on my face when I took it though..that flush killed me...anyways Niacin has been shown to increases LDL particle size and increase Apo A-1 which is also really good..BUT there have been recent studies..well I am thinking of one..AIM HIGH I think it was called where they used niacin and Statins and stopped it.....so niacin...who knows..evidence both ways..this is the tricky part about all this stuf...it literally doesn't matter what you believe, there is a study to back you up..lol..heck niaspan is probably cheap with a scrip so try it...I still favor diet, but genetics can be a powerful thing sometimes...

I have supplemented with Niacin and Red Yeast Rice for sometime now and my lipids always look good. Niacin really makes my face hot, but I had heard that "No Flush" Naicin wasn't effective so I never switched.

My dad was a diabetic by age 40, had his first heart stents at 48, quad bypass at 51, and then one more stent just about a year ago. So I really try to be proactive about what I do...and really stay on him about his diet and supplements as well.

But I think that one of the biggest contributing factors in my health although I can't provide concrete proof aside from the way I personally feel has been learning to manage my stress level and to not let things get to me that normally would.

 

[mountaindog1]

I have supplemented with Niacin and Red Yeast Rice for sometime now and my lipids always look good. Niacin really makes my face hot, but I had heard that "No Flush" Naicin wasn't effective so I never switched.

My dad was a diabetic by age 40, had his first heart stents at 48, quad bypass at 51, and then one more stent just about a year ago. So I really try to be proactive about what I do...and really stay on him about his diet and supplements as well.

But I think that one of the biggest contributing factors in my health although I can't provide concrete proof aside from the way I personally feel has been learning to manage my stress level and to not let things get to me that normally would.

This is an EXCELLENT point. Constant low grade inflammation from stress takes it toll on you eventually. I constantly ask myself if what I am getting workedup about is a big deal before I let it bother..the answer is no 99% of the time...

 

[alpha6164]

Thanks doc - I believe that the two areas to focus on the MOST in a lipid panel are HDL and Trigly. High triglycerides and high ldl = BAD news or high trygl. and Low HDL = even worse news..

Apolipoproteins are also proving to be very good - Apo B, Apo A etc. What are you thoughts on those..

Also i think the inflammation panel is REALLY good as well - hs-CRP, Fibrinogen, Myeloperoxidase..and there is another one I cant remember...

THIS.



Apolipoproteins are pretty much the key factor when trying to split hairs. To explain to everybody else reading so they also understand Apolipoproteins are the components of your HDL and LDL. Basically they are divided into group B (bad LDL) and A1 (good HDL). What this means is that you may have an LDL of 100 which we consider "good" but if your Apo B is very high it means that even though your LDL may look ok, you are in worse shape that numbers initially show. Same goes with HDL. If you have an HDL of 45 where it may be considered "normal" but you have very low Apo A1 levels, then you are at greater risk for cardiovascular accident.


But the bottom line is that for 95% of the population if you can drive your LDL and TG down and drive your HDL up you have the winning ticket. The biggest misconception is that LDL can be reduced by diet. Obviously if are sucking lard thru a straw or eating fastfood three times a day changing will help your LDL but by 10-20% at most. You have to realize that an average size man produces 1000-1200mg of cholesterol a day by the liver. The typical consumption thru diet is ~300mg. So imagine if your body is producing 1500mg of cholesterol daily and you are taking in 700mg because of crappy food. Even if you clean up your diet and reduce your intake to 200mg a day you have only made a small dent in the overall picture.

Now TG is 100% diet driven. I have had patients admitted in the hospital with TG of >1000! When you draw their blood, it literally looks whitish and not like blood. You basically admit them to the hospital, hook up IV and put them on a 72hour fast. Just IV and electrolytes. Wouldnt you know that in 72 hours their TG will come down to 300 from greater than a 1000. It is a purely diet driven number. HDL is also driven genetically and by diet.

Myself i can could always lower my LDL and MILDLY increase my HDL with statins but never to my satisfaction. If i use lipitor or crestor, my LDL will go from 160 to 80 and my HDL will go from 40 to 45. It was not until i started doing the 3g of EPA/DHA (high quality), one avocado a day, and 3oz of unroasted nuts daily that after 90 days my HDL shot up to 63.

 

[BigDaddyBone]

Wow 45-63? That's quite an impressive increase.

What about doing cardio for HDL? I've always heard that can help bring the levels up...

Also, triglyceride level is dependent on total calories consumed, right? Or is it affected more by a specific macronutrient?

 

[alpha6164]

Wow 45-63? That's quite an impressive increase.

What about doing cardio for HDL? I've always heard that can help bring the levels up...

Also, triglyceride level is dependent on total calories consumed, right? Or is it affected more by a specific macronutrient?

Cardio helps but also in small increment. TG level has nothing to do with total calories consumed. TG is basically made up of a glycerol and three fatty acid chains attached to hence the name Triglyceride. It comes from fat only. Protein and carbs have no TG in them. Basically the fattier food you consume particulalry saturated fats the higher your TG levels will be.

 

[BigGuy1980]

Great read!

I am someone who has bad genetics when it comes to cardiovascular health. I have a clean diet... Carbs come from fruits/veggies, lean meats, coconut/walnut/olive oils.... Eat when hungry... I dont have the necessary funds for grass fed, free range.. Is there anything else I can do to reduce LDL particle size, and increase HDL? My overall cholesterol is low, LDL is low, HDL is low too...

 

[nikehotel]

Cardio, fish oil, fiber drinks, niacin, low dose aspirin.....all are cheap. Generic statins are cheap too. Get labs, add stuff in, recheck.

 

[hghanadrol1]

Hopefully John can/will be able to post the scan of the blood tests we need to look at in order to observe all these specific levels.

 

[Reno911]

I have used "flush" Niacin @ 500mg to help bump up HDL. It worked for this purpose but when I got my labs back my liver counts were 110+. No other "compounds" were being used. What's your thoughts on having the elevated liver enzymes while trying to increase HDL ?

 

[matt1164]

This is an EXCELLENT point. Constant low grade inflammation from stress takes it toll on you eventually. I constantly ask myself if what I am getting workedup about is a big deal before I let it bother..the answer is no 99% of the time...

Hey md,

For the last few years my doc has been telling me my muscle enzymes levels r high at 633 last checkup.

is this anything for concern?

thx

 

[AlphaMaleDawg]

I sometimes wonder whether regular bloodwork is really what determines your health. I feel like it is typically things not in bloodwork that really seem to get people. For instance, you don't really know how healthy your heart is through bloodwork. I feel like this is another example, even though there are tests for this, it isn't part of the regular full panel blood test

 

[mountaindog1]

I sometimes wonder whether regular bloodwork is really what determines your health. I feel like it is typically things not in bloodwork that really seem to get people. For instance, you don't really know how healthy your heart is through bloodwork. I feel like this is another example, even though there are tests for this, it isn't part of the regular full panel blood test

That is a very good thought AMD - it can reveal things...let you know what is going on....but you are correct....bloodwork doesn't equal God.

I think the problem is that many are just to scared to get it done, and they could be catching something sooner rather than later.

Probably one of the easiest ways to know a little about what's going on to is just a simple blood pressure test. I ask people wha their bp is and many say well it's good....it was 10 years ago anyway..haha..

On another note, my wife knows how to work the scanner so she can scan some pics of the labs I am talking about tomorrow night for us..

JM

 

[mountaindog1]

Hey md,

For the last few years my doc has been telling me my muscle enzymes levels r high at 633 last checkup.

is this anything for concern?

thx

What is that number for - what marker?

 

[mountaindog1]

I just pulled a few files to scan...

some highlights...

One guy had HDL of 94 and Triglycerides at 45 - this isn't a detailed test but impressive as hell..

One guy has HDL of 82, Triglycerides at 20, low particle size and concentration....

both of the above are natural guys that time carbs only pre and post workout, and other meals are protein and fat..

Another one is a guy who competed recent on a pretty fair amount of orals and other stuff - HDL 29, LDL 160, Triglcerides 121, particle size is a little high, and so is density - looking forward to retesting him after on clean diet and HRT for a while..

and I found the highest total test level I have ever seen....hahahha, and it's me from yeeears ago, I might have to show that one too...lol...I got my wife pregnant with this reading..

More to come tomorrow...

 

[bigoso]

Absolutely. Actually most people that have high cholesterol is because of genetics anyways. To even give you a flip side of it, there is a genetic disease if you call it that "abnormally" causes extremely high HDL levels within certain asian population. I am talking about HDLs of 200+. Would you believe that these people have the lowest levels of cardiovascular accidents?

My entire family has high cholesterol. I eat extremely healthy my naturally my LDLs are still 160-180. Of course i take statins. I would be stupid not to.

Doc in your opinion, is it advisable for a bb'er with borderline high cholesterol to get on statins....my LDL is usually 120-130...been on hrt for the last 3 years...before my HDL is always good @75...over the last few years it's down to 37...I had been eating shitty for a while before this last test and slacking with my lovaza and niacin....the sides of statins concern me..especially rhabdo