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My conversation with an ex 2000's pro

bigdog123

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I'm in the UK and bumped into an ex pro today in my gym.. Won't say who he is but he was very well known in 2000-2010 time and has competed at the top level, never made the Olympia though.

We got on to doses... He said he never used to use much year round , maybe 250-500mg test most of year but ramp it up 12-16 weeks pre contest only and then post show and rest of year never took much.. He did go up to 3g or so leading into a show and felt he would often compete heavier the year after, maybe only 2-3lb from that one cycle and the rebound from the show.

He is still circa 250 at 5'9 and has a very good physique and is pretty much on trt with some gh...

Makes me think that he said he used a lot in the earlier years recklessly and once the size is there he would cruise and just ramp it up once a year for a few shows then go down, like levrone did..
 

BigNJ

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It makes sense healthwise I suppose. Only up the dosage when you're about to compete.
I wonder however, for the big guys, 280+ pounds, would 250 mgs of Test be sufficient to maintain their muscle mass.
 

TheOtherOne55

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I literally just made a post about this in the nick walker thread.

IN ORDER TO GET TO PRO CALIBER SIZE, a lot of guys will push high doses. Not everyone has to do this. There are some genetic freaks out there who can get to 250lbs of muscle running 700 test and 600 EQ. But for the most part, big doses are needed. But once you get there, maintenance of that 250lbs only takes a bit of test and eating a lot of freaking food.
Your buddies explanation is what Dusty seems to say. He doesn't need much to hold his size so for his offseason, he doesn't blast high dosed shit. But when its competition time, that's when the push is. Lots of guys use much muchhh higher stuff precontest then what they do in the offseason. But those first formative "GET BIG" years, its higher stuff on both sides....offseason and precontest.
 

tren_plz

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I'm not going to say genetics are the biggest factor here...but...

GENETICS..we've all seen hyper responders to gear and training. Dudes who eat baked beans and train like an ass yet look amazing...
 

Bio

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I'm in the UK and bumped into an ex pro today in my gym.. Won't say who he is but he was very well known in 2000-2010 time and has competed at the top level, never made the Olympia though.

We got on to doses... He said he never used to use much year round , maybe 250-500mg test most of year but ramp it up 12-16 weeks pre contest only and then post show and rest of year never took much.. He did go up to 3g or so leading into a show and felt he would often compete heavier the year after, maybe only 2-3lb from that one cycle and the rebound from the show.

He is still circa 250 at 5'9 and has a very good physique and is pretty much on trt with some gh...

Makes me think that he said he used a lot in the earlier years recklessly and once the size is there he would cruise and just ramp it up once a year for a few shows then go down, like levrone did..

BigDog with all due respect, he didn't compete at the top level if he never made it to the Mr. O. Almost top level but not quite. Not trying to take away from the mans accomplishments, just saying.

The other thing is that this thread is going to go south soon! LOL!! Just look at the Nick Walker thread! Let me ask you, how do you know he was telling you the truth? I understand why a lot of guys aren't honest about what they use. They don't want the average gym rat, not directed at you, or worse yet some teenager jumping on their dosages. I do agree that it's easier to maintain it once you achieve it but growth for that level is a whole other story!!
 

Fa Seeshus

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I bet with many of these pro encounters they just don't want to say that they are doing anything illegal to someone that they don't even know. Just keep that in consideration.

Honestly when someone I don't know asks, I tell them I just do yoga and don't lift. Maybe they are running off to a message board and saying yoga is the key to hypertrophy or something.
 

thethinker48

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It makes sense healthwise I suppose. Only up the dosage when you're about to compete.
I wonder however, for the big guys, 280+ pounds, would 250 mgs of Test be sufficient to maintain their muscle mass.

Genetics, and how long you've held it will both play a role

Dusty has incredible genetics to retain muscle mass, he's talked about this openly on his podcast; combine that with hard heavy training year round. Someone like Jordan Peters needs extra hormonal support (400 test + primo) for cruises, he says he doesn't hold well on just trt

Vast majority of "regular" guys can maintain perfectly fine on <200 mgs of test
 

juggy38

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BigDog with all due respect, he didn't compete at the top level if he never made it to the Mr. O. Almost top level but not quite. Not trying to take away from the mans accomplishments, just saying.

The other thing is that this thread is going to go south soon! LOL!! Just look at the Nick Walker thread! Let me ask you, how do you know he was telling you the truth? I understand why a lot of guys aren't honest about what they use. They don't want the average gym rat, not directed at you, or worse yet some teenager jumping on their dosages. I do agree that it's easier to maintain it once you achieve it but growth for that level is a whole other story!!

Bio, in your opinion, and others opinion, what doses do you think these guys 5’10 in classic weighing in at 197lbs are running?
 

hulkboy

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Go ask your old lady how many dudes she’s slept with. Multiply by 5, and you’ve got an idea. Now do that with gear doses that pros spout off.. Lol

In seriousness, unless I physically witness stash, see pinning, and watch food go down the mouth, I won’t believe anything I read, or hear about.
 

Bio

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Bio, in your opinion, and others opinion, what doses do you think these guys 5’10 in classic weighing in at 197lbs are running?

I hate to speculate. I'm sure some are on grams of gear. Who knows how much their diets, both on and off season, are, is GH in the mix, etc.
 

hulkboy

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Bio, in your opinion, and others opinion, what doses do you think these guys 5’10 in classic weighing in at 197lbs are running?
Stupid amounts, they’ve all been training a few years, loading up with gear in hopes of turning pro! I’ll bet a hanfull of them have the density and quality muscle that would sustain when coming off gear.
 

danieltx

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Bio, in your opinion, and others opinion, what doses do you think these guys 5’10 in classic weighing in at 197lbs are running?

It really doesn't matter.

If you took the exact same stuff, ate the exact same diet, and trained the exact same way, you still wouldn't look like them. Same for the aesthetic kid or mass monster in your local gym.

Everyone needs to put the energy they use on speculating about what others do into meticulously tracking what they themselves do, trial and error with supplementation / diet / training, and noting what works and doesn't work for them. That's how you maximize your physique and build something others start speculating about.
 

DrBeefcake777

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BigDog with all due respect, he didn't compete at the top level if he never made it to the Mr. O. Almost top level but not quite. Not trying to take away from the mans accomplishments, just saying.

The other thing is that this thread is going to go south soon! LOL!! Just look at the Nick Walker thread! Let me ask you, how do you know he was telling you the truth? I understand why a lot of guys aren't honest about what they use. They don't want the average gym rat, not directed at you, or worse yet some teenager jumping on their dosages. I do agree that it's easier to maintain it once you achieve it but growth for that level is a whole other story!!


I see your point but I know a guy thats nearly big enough to compete, just doesnt want to, and he holds 250 lbs at 250mg a week. He changes a little composition wise bc the other drugs added give greater pumps and certain effects like dht derivatives, but 250mg and some GH you can attain good size.

Also we are not talking about the insulin swollen elephant in the room either.
 

juggy38

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It really doesn't matter.

If you took the exact same stuff, ate the exact same diet, and trained the exact same way, you still wouldn't look like them. Same for the aesthetic kid or mass monster in your local gym.

Everyone needs to put the energy they use on speculating about what others do into meticulously tracking what they themselves do, trial and error with supplementation / diet / training, and noting what works and doesn't work for them. That's how you maximize your physique and build something others start speculating about.

Ahh this is true. I just don’t know any high level competitors to talk to. And like bio and you kinda suggested, it could be 800mg total or it could be 3g a week

I guess if i ever get there I’ll know lol
 

opietaylor

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I'm in the UK and bumped into an ex pro today in my gym.. Won't say who he is but he was very well known in 2000-2010 time and has competed at the top level, never made the Olympia though.

We got on to doses... He said he never used to use much year round , maybe 250-500mg test most of year but ramp it up 12-16 weeks pre contest only and then post show and rest of year never took much.. He did go up to 3g or so leading into a show and felt he would often compete heavier the year after, maybe only 2-3lb from that one cycle and the rebound from the show.

He is still circa 250 at 5'9 and has a very good physique and is pretty much on trt with some gh...

Makes me think that he said he used a lot in the earlier years recklessly and once the size is there he would cruise and just ramp it up once a year for a few shows then go down, like levrone did..



in my experience this has a ton of truth behind it.
 

b-boy

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It really doesn't matter.

If you took the exact same stuff, ate the exact same diet, and trained the exact same way, you still wouldn't look like them. Same for the aesthetic kid or mass monster in your local gym.

Everyone needs to put the energy they use on speculating about what others do into meticulously tracking what they themselves do, trial and error with supplementation / diet / training, and noting what works and doesn't work for them. That's how you maximize your physique and build something others start speculating about.

^^^BEST POST OF 2020 RIGHT HERE^^^
 

LK3

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BigDog with all due respect, he didn't compete at the top level if he never made it to the Mr. O. Almost top level but not quite. Not trying to take away from the mans accomplishments, just saying.

The other thing is that this thread is going to go south soon! LOL!! Just look at the Nick Walker thread! Let me ask you, how do you know he was telling you the truth? I understand why a lot of guys aren't honest about what they use. They don't want the average gym rat, not directed at you, or worse yet some teenager jumping on their dosages. I do agree that it's easier to maintain it once you achieve it but growth for that level is a whole other story!!


the thing is the average gym rat jumps into 3g/wk waaaay before they jump under or over heavy weight so that argument doesnt really make sense anymore.

we have so many examples of guys who are very big explaining this all day long but it falls on deaf ears because everyone is so concerned with what the other guy is doing or what they say. at this point i have been around weights and training for more then 25 years and honestly the only thing i have found shocking in terms of drugs is how much ppl take and how little they have to show for it. i cant think of one time when someone who was actually big told me there use and it was crazy high, much more so its the other way around, small guy on tons of gear.

i like drugs, i like playing with things and have experimented with everything at what are for most stupid doses and in all honesty can say it isnt the drugs that do the work. if it was just about drugs we would have a giant number of giant people and its just not the case.

you can walk into most any gym any time anywhere in the world and find some dude on multi g's of gear who looks worse then a decent hs athlete who barely trains.

how many gyms can you walk into and find a guy benching or squating 4 plates with decent form for reps?

now tell me is it easier to load a syringe or squat 4 plates for reps?
ppl love to see the end result of those squats but they are embarrassed to do what it takes to get there. much easier to think the results came in 10cc mutli dose vial.

im kind of embarrassed how easy it is to fill the syringe and think its progress.
 

showstopper83

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I'm pretty damn knowledgeable compared to the average gym rat, but don't hold a candle to some of you dudes on here, and damn sure am not nearly as accomplished.

But gear dosages and genetics aside- I believe HgH and igf-1 are the great equalizers. Igf-1 is what gh metabolizes into... Which is a fat burning/nutrition partitioning agent that is the ONLY thing that causes hyperplasia. Don't tell me it's genetics when somebody's biceps have biceps lol.

Take a cycle of:

Test C 750mg
EQ 500mg
Deca 500mg
50mg Anadrol

With a 1000+ calorie surplus

...and see what results you get.

Now take that SAME cycle, and add 2iu of gh to it and look at the results.

Then on your next run, take the same dosages with 6iu.

Then try it with 10iu.


You can "train and eat your ass off" all you want, but if your body is not able to synthesize and put use to the nutrients, you will get fat.

If you are playing God at 8iu+ and splitting fibers, now not only are nutrients better partitioned, but more muscle cells to feed.

Also shit that gets overlooked BIG TIME- digestive aids i.e. probiotics and addressing vitamin/mineral deficiencies that throw off hormones.

How many people, period, let alone athletes are Magnesium deficient? Magnesium regulates cortisol, which is the #1 muscle cock-block hormone in our body. Deficient in Vitamin D? Zinc? Copper?

Most people don't know how critical these every day minerals are or that they are deficient... Yet could be every bit as important as the juice you take.

What good was squatting til you puked and pounding 350g of protein if you are stuck in bed with adrenal fatigue, body chewing through muscle bc your cortisol is higher than Whitney Houston at the after party?
 

b-boy

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Everyone always talks about how pros lie about their dosages, i have talked with several pros that I know that were dead honest with me (some I had talked to their prep coach first). Hell Jay Cutler was a little too honest with me and told me waaaayyyy more than I needed to know..LOL
If your a young guy or someone that looks like they just found the gym then yea some pro probably isn't going to tell you much for your own damn good.
 

Big Dave Smith

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I have a theory/opinion on some of this.

There are 2 types of physiques which turn out to be monster’ish.

1- The guys who look like they can hold it. Symmetry and aesthetics still seem okay, yet they’re monsters.

2- 10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag.

I’ve been in the game for about 20 years. They guys who use gear, look good, then explode into “10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag” in a matter of 2 years... tend to be in the upper levels of abuse. The tissue almost doesn’t even look right on the body. This never happened in the 90’s and early 2000’s to guys who focused on training, eating, and ordinary cycles.

If you compare the physique of someone like an Ed Nunn to any young white dude who’s a SHW, the young white dude (9/10 times) at the same weight will look “off”.

I don’t mean that all people in certain categories are the same, plenty of “pretty” physiques also abuse. It just seems like we look beyond some of the extreme abuse in the moment, cheer for a guy, then are shocked when he has major health problems. We’d like to believe that it’s all hard training and food pushing, but it isn’t.
 

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