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My Experiment With Sustanon

haze324 said:
about 4pm on Monday, but I was ready. Shoot 1000mgs of Powerline Sust and figured I'd be ready to go for a late night workout. NO WAY. I was exhuasted from the weekend. Well by night time, the infamous Sust Flu had kicked in. I had huge fever, couldn't sleep, felt dizzy, etc.
Good luck man! Sounds like you got some work to do! We're about the same size. Same height except I'm always around 220-30.

If you were feeling flu-like symptoms the day-of your injection, that's something that either was already festering or the PL sust or your needle may have been contaminated. Influenza can't set in that fast!

haze324 said:
Although I really won't be that good of an indicator because no matter what I do - I'm gonna grow:D
HA!!! You'll be back in no time!
 
OTH, this is one of the longest ACTIVE ongoing threads (3 months and running) here and some good info to learn. Proud of ya man... good thread.
 
Last edited:
enanthate

trumps them all in my opinion. im sure many disagree but when it comes to sust/omna's etc. i get the best gains from enanthate (galenika testosteron depo.) i never even stack anything with it just 750mg a week of it and my body blows up. very minimal bloating too. of course the 5000 cal a day does not hurt either :D
 
Kaiser said:
OTH, this is one of the longest ACTIVE ongoing threads (3 months and running) here and some good info to learn. Proud of ya man... good thread.
Thanks brother. Nothin but love for you here. But I can't take any credit fot this! I just posted my experience. We've spoken a ton about this so you've contributed as much as anyone. Everyone was generous enough to offer their experiences and even use their own gear to give it a try.

Hopefully, we'll be able to make some conclusions soon. Maybe not. Either way, it's decent reading.
 
supersized25 said:
trumps them all in my opinion. im sure many disagree but when it comes to sust/omna's etc. i get the best gains from enanthate (galenika testosteron depo.) i never even stack anything with it just 750mg a week of it and my body blows up. very minimal bloating too. of course the 5000 cal a day does not hurt either :D

I agree my fav is Enanthate but I thought I'd give this a try. I figure this is my comeback so I will grow off of just about anything. I've tried ALOT of different sustanon's and always did them M-W-F and it would take about 4-5weeks to really start seeing results so I after reading this it kinda made sense so I thought I'd give it a try.

I feel great today. had a good workout last night went to bed at a decent time and woke up today 100%. I had a nice feeling of hunger when I woke up so I knew I was well rested. When I'm beat, sick, etc, my apptetite is the first thing to go.

My injections sites are hardly tender anymore. So 3 days after my first shot is not too bad. Like I said, no knots, or redness or swelling. So hopefully I put the flu behind me and next week will run smoothly.

I'll post more results next week.
 
I have used Susy 250 in the past and had great results, but I am now a one ester kind of guy now. I just go back to the philosohy of if there is too many cooks in the kitchen it can get out of hand, so that is why I have been using one esters because it is simple and hits you all at once. Just my opinion though.
 
...

Gotta agree with OTH and his approach. I've used sust/omnas a few times. The best results I got - and I did get good results - were shooting omnas at 3cc straight up once every 7 days. I've done all the EOD and fancy stuff since, and that is what worked best. Put on about 25lb actually. IronMike
 
The last paragraph may explain why this method worked for me.

Pharmacokinetics
After intramuscular administration, testosterone enanthate becomes completely systemically available. The compound is gradually released from the depot with a half-life of about 4.5 days and is cleaved into testosterone and enanthic acid.

Maximum concentrations of testosterone of 20 ng/ml were measured 1.5 - 3 days after i.m. administration of 250 mg of testosterone enanthate to young men. Thereafter, testosterone levels in the plasma decreased with a half-life of about 4.5 days which corresponds to the release rate from depot.

Testosterone concentrations of =2 ng/ml were maintained for 20 days and concentrations =1 ng/ml for 26 days. With a dose of 250 mg testosterone enanthate, patients receive a total dose of 180 mg testosterone. Around the time where maximum serum levels are achieved, average daily doses after 1 and 2 weeks correspond to 12 and 4 mg testosterone, respectively. Within approximately 4 weeks after drug administration, testosterone is completely released from the depot.

Testosterone, which was generated by ester cleavage from testosterone enanthate, is metabolised and excreted the same way as endogenous testosterone. The enanthic acid is metabolised by ß-oxidation in the same way as other aliphatic carboxylic acids. The metabolic clearance of testosterone is calculated to be 16±7 ml/min/kg and refers to hepatic and extra-hepatic metabolism of testosterone. The metabolites of testosterone are eliminated with a half-life of 7.8 days. About 90 % are excreted renally and about 10 % with the bile.

Testosterone is highly bound to serum proteins, in particular to albumin and SHBG. The absolute bioavailability of testosterone from the ester was almost complete, indicating a rapid and efficient cleavage of the ester.

b. Injectable Testosterone Esters. The esterification of testosterone at the 17 b hydroxy position makes the molecule hydrophobic and extends its duration of action (321-323). De-esterification of testosterone esters occurs quickly in plasma, and cannot account for the long duration of action. It is the slow release of testosterone ester from its oily depot in the muscle that accounts for its extended duration. The longer the side chain, the greater the hydrophobicity of the ester, and greater the duration of action. Thus testosterone enanthate and cypionate with longer side chains have longer duration of action than testosterone propionate.
 
Last edited:
OuchThatHurts said:
This I just copied and pasted from some articles I've been reading. The last paragraph may explain why this method worked for me.

Pharmacokinetics
After intramuscular administration, testosterone enanthate becomes completely systemically available. The compound is gradually released from the depot with a half-life of about 4.5 days and is cleaved into testosterone and enanthic acid.

Maximum concentrations of testosterone of 20 ng/ml were measured 1.5 - 3 days after i.m. administration of 250 mg of testosterone enanthate to young men. Thereafter, testosterone levels in the plasma decreased with a half-life of about 4.5 days which corresponds to the release rate from depot.

Testosterone concentrations of =2 ng/ml were maintained for 20 days and concentrations =1 ng/ml for 26 days. With a dose of 250 mg testosterone enanthate, patients receive a total dose of 180 mg testosterone. Around the time where maximum serum levels are achieved, average daily doses after 1 and 2 weeks correspond to 12 and 4 mg testosterone, respectively. Within approximately 4 weeks after drug administration, testosterone is completely released from the depot.

Testosterone, which was generated by ester cleavage from testosterone enanthate, is metabolised and excreted the same way as endogenous testosterone. The enanthic acid is metabolised by ß-oxidation in the same way as other aliphatic carboxylic acids. The metabolic clearance of testosterone is calculated to be 16±7 ml/min/kg and refers to hepatic and extra-hepatic metabolism of testosterone. The metabolites of testosterone are eliminated with a half-life of 7.8 days. About 90 % are excreted renally and about 10 % with the bile.

Testosterone is highly bound to serum proteins, in particular to albumin and SHBG. The absolute bioavailability of testosterone from the ester was almost complete, indicating a rapid and efficient cleavage of the ester.

b. Injectable Testosterone Esters. The esterification of testosterone at the 17 b hydroxy position makes the molecule hydrophobic and extends its duration of action (321-323). De-esterification of testosterone esters occurs quickly in plasma, and cannot account for the long duration of action. It is the slow release of testosterone ester from its oily depot in the muscle that accounts for its extended duration. The longer the side chain, the greater the hydrophobicity of the ester, and greater the duration of action. Thus testosterone enanthate and cypionate with longer side chains have longer duration of action than testosterone propionate.

This sounds like it would be good information, but I don't understand all of the technical terms. What exactly is "ng/ml" & "ml/min/kg"? Also does ß-oxidation mean Beta-Oxidation or something else? The only term I do recognize is "Cleavage" :D (This looks like how one of my computer diagnosis looks to you...lol)
 
Kaiser said:
This sounds like it would be good information, but I don't understand all of the technical terms. What exactly is "ng/ml" & "ml/min/kg"? Also does ß-oxidation mean Beta-Oxidation or something else? The only term I do recognize is "Cleavage" :D (This looks like how one of my computer diagnosis looks to you...lol)
Okay, my fault. Yes beta-oxidation. And ng/ml, ng/dL, ng/pL, these are all just units of measurement. In this case, measuring ng's (nanograms) per ml (milliliter) of blood. You'll see these on your blood work. The ml/min/kg is often used to measure things like VO2 - millilters per minute per kilogram.

But even without with the chemistry lesson, what is really interesting is the simple physics of the longer esterified test simply remaining in depot due to their increased hydrophobicity which is just a big word for undissolvability in water (which of course, humans mostly are made up of). So probably my initial thought that the good distribution of sust for me was really just the sust remaining in depot much longer than a smaller amount of oil would.

Also interesting to me was that if you consider that 250mg's of test enanthate yields about 180mg of testosterone taking up to THREE days to reach maximum plasma concentration and then an additional 4.5 days to be cut in half, this still gives you a fairly high concentration for up to 7.5 days where STILL HALF is in depot (still sitting in your ass, delt, quad, etc).

This gives us some things to consider. First of all, how important it is to rotate injection sites. Don't think a week later that a site is ready. Not a chance. Secondly, that the release of the test from an injection is not as cut and dry as one might think. You have time in depot and then when released, in plasma de-esterification, and then the active life of the released testosterone! It also makes me ponder whether certain oils (cottonseed, sesame, grapeseed) will have a shorter duration in depot due to their molecular structure. This may explain why you experience differences in products from one manufacturer to the next even though the mg/ml is actually accurate and identical. One may have higher content benzyl alcohol and benzoate and thus less oil while another still may be prepped with a different oil altogether. Thirdly, how absurd it is to rub a site after injection. A few minutes of steady pressure will do. You WILL NOT rub the oil into the muscle more quickly. In fact, it's in oil for THE sole purpose of just remaining there! Does this make better sense?
 
Last edited:
last time i did sust i did 8 wks ed , 1 amp a day with 50 mg of dbol aday . thats the way i would take it .
 
So, why do you think since there is a depot issue, that pharm companies designed these as oil base instead of a more regulatable water base like Winny uses? Do you think the acid level in water as storage/delivery compared to oil has something to do with it and would render the drug (testosterone, durabolin, etc) itself useless, or is there another issue that would come to mind like oil making a better solute?
 
Kaiser said:
So, why do you think since there is a depot issue, that pharm companies designed these as oil base instead of a more regulatable water base like Winny uses? Do you think the acid level in water as storage/delivery compared to oil has something to do with it and would render the drug (testosterone, durabolin, etc) itself useless, or is there another issue that would come to mind like oil making a better solute?
I'm not suggesting that there is an issue. Interesting that you got that impression. I don't think a water-based injectable formula would necessarily be any more regulatable but might be better for a one-time-dose administration (testosterone suspension, a vaccine, an anesthetic, etc.). Remember that oil, in this case would not be a solute but rather a solvent (accurately a co-solvent). The solute would be the drug. The entire point of esterification is to increase the duration of action. This increased duration is a good thing if you want a steady amount of a drug to be released over an extended period of time (as I'm assuming we all do). The extended duration of action comes from a combination of BOTH esterification and dissolution in oil.

I encountered the following information while reading about haloperidol decanoate. An injectable form of Haldol. It's not a drug that anyone here would want to use but testosterones aren't the only drugs/compounds that are esterified to increase duration. From haloperidol's clinical pharmacology:

"Administration of haloperidol decanoate in sesame oil results in slow and sustained release of haloperidol. The plasma concentrations of haloperidol gradually rise, reaching a peak at about 6 days after the injection, and falling thereafter, with an apparent half-life of about 3 weeks. Steady state plasma concentrations are achieved after the third or fourth dose."

I know for myself that I'm getting off any decanoate ester for more than 3 weeks before PCT from now on. At least a month for me.
 
Last edited:
OuchThatHurts said:
Abstract: Sustanon And It’s Use
By OuchThatHurts

Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob” has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.

Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone) over a length of time.



So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic”. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)

In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…

I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu”? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters” will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.

Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.

Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca).






Thanks for this article bro!! I just started this myself since the eod has not worked good for me neither. Started yesterday and done 1500mg of sust and will do this every 7 days to see if this works for me to! Will let you know how it works for me!!
 
OuchThatHurts said:
Abstract: Sustanon And It’s Use
By OuchThatHurts

Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob” has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.

Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone) over a length of time.

So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic”. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?

propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)

In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…

I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu”? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters” will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.

Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.

Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca).

Refs: any Sustanon package insert
KICKASS POST!! THANK YOU!!!!!
 
I think this was from over a year ago when I hit the sustanon "motherload". I had the stuff coming out my ears before it was all said and done. I know one thing, I'll never run blends again. I'll just do it myself like with prop and cyp or something. You either like it or you don't. Good on ya either way. In the end it was pretty interesting but less than fun.
 
Sustanon makes my butt hurt for about 3 days in random places after injecting. I still use it though, generally switching from cyp to sust about 1/2 way through a cycle.
 
Wow man i love this board im learning so much aLL i can say is thank each and every one of you people for all the great info I feel like im in school again its great im 38 i live in miami area and im getting ready to start a cycle soon i was thinking about sust. like you guys said every one wants to try it once well after hearing all this great info im goint use test eth instead i will start the first 3 to 4 weeks with the eth and suspension im also doing 40 mg dbol a day and 600 decca a week 500 hcg every 5 days i will post a tread with pics and every week iwill update pics and you can see whats going on any one who has any info about this cycle and wants to add anything pleas feel free thanks alot you people rock !!!!!!!!!!
BIRDS:D :D
 
i get sustanon from my endo for HRT, but i dont like this stuff.
it hurts like hell all the times on the place where i inject it.
i think its strange that they give sustanon to patience why dont they give test E?
i asked my endo and he told me that in the netherlands there no other testosteron injection on the market for this treatment.
so i told him that i would buy my test E for the future HRT somewhere elso.
 

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