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New here, Hormones - Estrogen, Prolactin, etc

STREETBANDIT

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Hi, I'm a complete newbie here and with steroids too.
I want to ask.

ESTROGEN (Estradiol / E2)
What is the correct estrogen level (range) that I follow:
- during the volume cycle
- after the volume cycle

I read here that reducing estrogen levels to a minimum is very bad (except for pre-competition preparation) as well as high estrogen levels. Both have bad side effects.

Then I read here that higher estrogen levels don't matter so much, because it depends on the estrogen / androgen ratio. What should be the ratio? Does it matter or not?

In the blood test, the range of serum estradiol is determined to be: S_Estradiol: 0.0 - 146.1 pmol / l.

Could I ask you to explain how you do it and what is your opinion on the right estrogen level? What is your recommendation that has worked for you. What level should I have?


PROLACTIN
What is the correct prolactin level (range) that I follow? I read the information that prolactin should be as low as possible.

In the blood test, the range of serum Prolactin is determined to be: S_Prolactin: 44.5 - 375.2 mU / l. So should I keep it around 45 -50 mU / l?

Thank you in advance for a quality summary answer that will help me (and probably other newcomers here).
Streetbandit
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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I would only suppress prolactin if I was having an issue (ED, gyno from prolactin, extreme lethargy that could be tied to prolactin). Otherwise, I wouldn't fuck with it.

Estrogen is very personal for range you feel best in. There's so many factors, for instance you may feel great at 40-50 estrogen with 1,000 level total test but since you're sensitive to gyno (just for instance) this may not work for you unless you had gyno surgery/glands removed.

Some guys feel better on lower estrogen 20-30s. Its just a very personal thing and based on so many subtle factors.

I'd shoot for a middle range estrogen level of 30-40 and see how your body reacts. You have to take into account total androgens/test level + free test levels too. For instance, if you're on 750mg test/week you may be able to "get away" with higher estrogen than if you were just running a true TRT of 100-150mg/week.
 

jaxino

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A Bird back in time told me that ... And always worked.

When building mass, keep estro between 50-80 pg/ml

When cutting 20-30 except in the last weeks before the competition where we drop below par if we want to be cut to the bone.

Under 50pg/ml building mass after a while starts becoming really challenging, near 80ish i start developing gyno.

Remember to wait at least 4weeks before doing E2 bloods, it's the minimum time needed for Enanthate ester to accumulate.
Usually the relationship between test and ais is almost linear so once you find a couple of points usually it's enough...

Usually i use high enough doses of Tren or NPP so Caber is always in at a stable of minimum 0,5mg e2w. Minimum effective dose for me was 0,5mg ew. I used more but it was pointless.

If you control e2, usually prolactin is a minor issue.
I wouldn't trust prolactin blood test because it depends from a ton of different things... Stress, overtraining, even just if you argued with someone 1h before bloods it can be high, so i usually go by sexual sides of i don't want to use Caber, if it takes forever to finish, Prolactin is skyhigh.
 

STREETBANDIT

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Hi guys, thank you very much for your answers. I appreciate that.

I'm solving a problem and that's why I want to know the right levels of Estradiol, Prolactin, Testosterone and probably other hormones.

My problem:
I am 4 months after the last steroid injection. And I still have a problem with acne - painful major acne. There aren't many of them, rather just always order one or two at a time. Sending photo in attachment...
Very strange is that during the cycle, I had no acne - no problems (by the way, no gynecomastia). My next problem is a big reduction in libido. I expected it to return to normal after such a long time, but still nothing is happening.

Why do I still have problems with acne and libido after such a long time (after the end of the cycle)?

I was on blood tests this week and my results are:
S_Testosterone 15.3 nmol / l S_Free testosterone 34.40 pmol / l
S_Estradiol 104.6 pmol / l S_Prolactin 161.0 mU / l
S_Progesterone 1.20 nmol / l
S_LH 4.1 U / l
S_FSH 3.77 U / l
LH / FSH Index 1.09
Maybe I have different units than you use? I am from Europe.

STEROID CYCLE - lasting 5 months:
Methadienone in a pyramid of 30-50mg / day - for the first 8 weeks of the cycle
Testosterone 750mg / week - throughout the cycle
Deja Durabolin 500mg / week - first 3 months
Oxymeholone 50mg day - the last 2 weeks of the cycle
Trenbolone enanthate 400mg / week - last 2 months of the cycle

PCT
HCG - 15,000 IU - 2,500 units every third day
Onset of PCT - 3 weeks after the last steroid injection.

Now I voluntarily confess - to my stupidity. I didn't have any estrogen or prolactin control products all this time. I haven't been to a blood test once. It was my first big cycle. I don't want to make excuses. My coach - a great racer in bench press (height 173cm, weight 130kg, maximum competition bench 230kg, at the age of 46), I trusted him a lot. He said I didn't need anything else to take steroids. It was my huge stupidity and I wouldn't do it again (probably the stupidity of a blind beginner). Now I find out everything later, for the right remedy. And to make everything perfect for a future cycle that I will manage myself - without this coach. I've found that a good racer doesn't have to be a good coach. And we are all completely different ...

Guys, thank you in advance for your answer.
Streetbandit
 

STREETBANDIT

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Photo of my acne...
 

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STREETBANDIT

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When building mass, keep estro between 50-80 pg/ml

Aha, so my values and unit are listed:
S_Estradiol 104.6 pmol/l
After converting to yours unit is my level 28.49 pg/mL.

That means I have lower estrogen levels.

What should I do to increase it?
1. Should I give an androgen, typically proviron, for example?
2. Or should I give HCG or Clomid?

Thanks in advance for reply.
Streetbandit
 

STREETBANDIT

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Estrogen is very personal for range you feel best in. There's so many factors, for instance you may feel great at 40-50 estrogen with 1,000 level total test but since you're sensitive to gyno (just for instance) this may not work for you unless you had gyno surgery/glands removed.

Yes, I understand that - we are all different and everyone has different reactions.
Someone does not have acne or gyno, but the water retention will be high. Everyone has to find that level themselves - I understand that.

Therefore, some range should be set in which it is good to stick and try. I want to set boundaries of scope and stick to them, try them and watch the reactions.

Anyway, surely there must be a level that is unacceptable (which I should not go through) - or unnecessary?

For example, is such a maximum level in the range?
range 20-30 is low
range 30-40 is medium
range 40- ?? high (it's 80 - how did jaxino write?)

Thank you in advance for your reply.
Streetbandit
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Yes, I understand that - we are all different and everyone has different reactions.
Someone does not have acne or gyno, but the water retention will be high. Everyone has to find that level themselves - I understand that.

Therefore, some range should be set in which it is good to stick and try. I want to set boundaries of scope and stick to them, try them and watch the reactions.

Anyway, surely there must be a level that is unacceptable (which I should not go through) - or unnecessary?

For example, is such a maximum level in the range?
range 20-30 is low
range 30-40 is medium
range 40- ?? high (it's 80 - how did jaxino write?)

Thank you in advance for your reply.
Streetbandit
Your rough guideline for estro range is a good starting point. Make sure you use ultra sensitive estradiol test. The normal estrogen test won't work for us to dial in level.

Just remember it's a starting point. You very well might feel fine at 25 or 80 and not 35.
 

jaxino

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Your rough guideline for estro range is a good starting point. Make sure you use ultra sensitive estradiol test. The normal estrogen test won't work for us to dial in level.

Just remember it's a starting point. You very well might feel fine at 25 or 80 and not 35.

Mate in Europe we only have ECLIA, and it overestimates estrogen readings by a 10-15%.

Aha, so my values and unit are listed:
S_Estradiol 104.6 pmol/l
After converting to yours unit is my level 28.49 pg/mL.

That means I have lower estrogen levels.

What should I do to increase it?
1. Should I give an androgen, typically proviron, for example?
2. Or should I give HCG or Clomid?

Thanks in advance for reply.
Streetbandit

For the readings I see you are on PCT because FSH and LH are high due to HCG and Clomid, which mimics those two.
Your Total Test is almost at naturally range: 441.2826pg/ml (but you are on HCG and Clomid so these values are not "real")

Not worth doing PCT, just cruise on 250mg TestE per week until you are not ready for another blast.
You will be suppressed and even if you jump back on your old Test levels they are too low to hold all the mass you have built.
The pimples you have are because of hormonal fluctuations, this happens, some are more prone than others.

IF you want to keep Testicles in shape shoot 500iu HCG just once per week, and the same day take 12,5mg Aromasin, so you will combat the E2 from endogenous test. 15k HCG is an insane stupid dose given to people with REAL issues... none needs all that much... you are basically frying your testicles...

STEROID CYCLE - lasting 5 months:
Methadienone in a pyramid of 30-50mg / day - for the first 8 weeks of the cycle
Testosterone 750mg / week - throughout the cycle
Deja Durabolin 500mg / week - first 3 months
Oxymeholone 50mg day - the last 2 weeks of the cycle
Trenbolone enanthate 400mg / week - last 2 months of the cycle

Damn... This cycle is so old school with lots of misinformation, which lead to sides, buuuut first of all remember that steroids always work, so even if you shoot random gear it will do something.... a lot of people have some results even without knowing a lot, or just by copy pasting cycles.

Oncycle basically you were on a boatload of estrogens, and at the end on a boatload of progesterone and a bit less estrogens, your prolactin and e2 were through the roof 100%...

During the cycle that you did... you should be using 12,5mg Aromasin MWF (it's MY dose, but i want to give you a number) and 0,5mg Caber once a week. This way you could avoid lots of water ret and other sides...
 

STREETBANDIT

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For the readings I see you are on PCT because FSH and LH are high due to HCG and Clomid, which mimics those two.
Your Total Test is almost at naturally range: 441.2826pg/ml (but you are on HCG and Clomid so these values are not "real")

Friend, I quit PCT two months ago. I haven't used anything in two months. I'm completely clean.
Will this information change your answer?
So the values are true and not distorted?
 

Swifto

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Mate in Europe we only have ECLIA, and it overestimates estrogen readings by a 10-15%.



For the readings I see you are on PCT because FSH and LH are high due to HCG and Clomid, which mimics those two.
Your Total Test is almost at naturally range: 441.2826pg/ml (but you are on HCG and Clomid so these values are not "real")

Not worth doing PCT, just cruise on 250mg TestE per week until you are not ready for another blast.
You will be suppressed and even if you jump back on your old Test levels they are too low to hold all the mass you have built.
The pimples you have are because of hormonal fluctuations, this happens, some are more prone than others.

IF you want to keep Testicles in shape shoot 500iu HCG just once per week, and the same day take 12,5mg Aromasin, so you will combat the E2 from endogenous test. 15k HCG is an insane stupid dose given to people with REAL issues... none needs all that much... you are basically frying your testicles...



Damn... This cycle is so old school with lots of misinformation, which lead to sides, buuuut first of all remember that steroids always work, so even if you shoot random gear it will do something.... a lot of people have some results even without knowing a lot, or just by copy pasting cycles.

Oncycle basically you were on a boatload of estrogens, and at the end on a boatload of progesterone and a bit less estrogens, your prolactin and e2 were through the roof 100%...

During the cycle that you did... you should be using 12,5mg Aromasin MWF (it's MY dose, but i want to give you a number) and 0,5mg Caber once a week. This way you could avoid lots of water ret and other sides...

Clomid mimics LH and FSH?
 

jaxino

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Clomid mimics LH and FSH?

I am not an 100% expert on the argument but I can tell you for sure that HCG mimics LH or FSH.
Clomid momentary inhibits the estrogen receptors in hypothalamus, this way your body will be forced to release LH and FSH.
For example if you decide to come off everything, once PCT is done you should wait around one week because of the half life of Clomid... Then do bloods for Total Test, E2, LH, FSH these should be enough to see if your body restarted properly working.

If you were on AAS before tbh, i would avoid PCT 100%, i would just go for TRT for life, mainly because a better quality of life.

Sorry for my English guys...
 

jaxino

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Friend, I quit PCT two months ago. I haven't used anything in two months. I'm completely clean.
Will this information change your answer?
So the values are true and not distorted?

Then you are at natural values! I wouldn't touch any drugs.

Just start with 250-300 TestE (1ml) once a week then in 4 weeks evaluate if jumping on cycle or not.
 

STREETBANDIT

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Then you are at natural values! I wouldn't touch any drugs.

Just start with 250-300 TestE (1ml) once a week then in 4 weeks evaluate if jumping on cycle or not.

Hello Friend,
today I had two more acne again - big and painful.

Something must be wrong when these ones pop up. Is there anything wrong with my blood tests?

Personally, I think it's caused by prolactin. Because I've never had acne problems in my life, not even as a teenager. And I didn't have acne problems in the cycle either.

So you really don't think I should lower prolactin? Because you think I have the values of other hormones correctly. Now, if I use testosterone enanthate 25Og / week, I think my acne will get worse, won't I?
 

STREETBANDIT

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Jaxino - In addition to the acne problem, I have decreased libido. :(

I want to get the state of well-being I had before taking them without anabolic steroids.
It's been three months to finish the peel and I'm still not well.
When I feel good, then they will start taking testosterone according to your advice ;)
 

Kaladryn

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I am not an 100% expert on the argument but I can tell you for sure that HCG mimics LH or FSH.
Clomid momentary inhibits the estrogen receptors in hypothalamus, this way your body will be forced to release LH and FSH.
For example if you decide to come off everything, once PCT is done you should wait around one week because of the half life of Clomid... Then do bloods for Total Test, E2, LH, FSH these should be enough to see if your body restarted properly working.

If you were on AAS before tbh, i would avoid PCT 100%, i would just go for TRT for life, mainly because a better quality of life.

Sorry for my English guys...
Clomid actually has active metabolites that continue to stimulate LH and FSH production for 6 weeks or more after stopping, this is why clomid 'PCT' seems to work, because most people get tested during this period where the metabolites are still active, you can't "restart" your testosterone production by stimulating it.
 

Kaladryn

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First: Whenever you post bloodwork, always post the normal range you are given with it.

Acne is caused by one of three things (or a combination) Androgens, Estrogens, and/or Progesterones. Prolactin could theoretically contribute to these but it is unlikely.

You are most likely having estrogen-based acne from lower T levels. This doesn't mean your E is high, it just means your T is low so E has more dominance.

Your PCT is most likely causing this and you will need to stay off everything for much longer per my post above.
 

Kaladryn

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you can't "restart" your testosterone production by stimulating it.
I should have said, I don't see any actual evidence that you can "restart" your T production by stimulating it, the only case studies on clomid are testing too soon after stopping and don't apply. Optimal conditions for stimulating GNRH and LH production is low T and low E, this is achieved naturally when stopping AAS, controlling E may be necessary when dropping T.
 

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