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New here, Hormones - Estrogen, Prolactin, etc

Kaladryn

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Your cycle is ridiculous, dosages are advanced bodybuilder level (and even then it would be someone who can tolerate those doses well), and there is no reason to throw that much at your body when you have no idea how you will respond to each drug. Start with 2 of those drugs alone, cut the dose and half, and make those doses your peaks in a progressive cycle.
 

STREETBANDIT

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First: Whenever you post bloodwork, always post the normal range you are given with it.

Hi Kalardyn,
thank you very much for your answers. I am grateful.

Do you mean the range of values i had in the blood test? If so, I send them here:

S_FSH, result 3.77 U/l, range 1.40 - 18.10
S_LH, result 4.1 U/l, range 1.5 - 9.3
S_Progesterone, result 1.20 nmol/l, range 0.89 - 3.88
S_Prolactin, result 161.0 mU/l, range 44.5 - 375.2
S_Estradiol, result 104.6 pmol/l, range 0.0 - 146.1
S_Testosterone, result 15.3 nmol/l, range 9.2 - 26.1
S_Free test, result 34.40 pmol/l, range 3.47 - 98.00
LH / FSH Index, result 1.09
 

STREETBANDIT

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Your cycle is ridiculous, dosages are advanced bodybuilder level (and even then it would be someone who can tolerate those doses well), and there is no reason to throw that much at your body when you have no idea how you will respond to each drug. Start with 2 of those drugs alone, cut the dose and half, and make those doses your peaks in a progressive cycle.

Yes, I fully agree with you - I myself acknowledged in my post above that I stupidly listened to the advice of the "coach".

It's true that I felt like God on Trenbolone, like Superman. But then there was a problem when I was solving relationship problems with my wife. I got very strong anxiety…
It was awful. Fortunately, I did well.
 

STREETBANDIT

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Clomid actually has active metabolites that continue to stimulate LH and FSH production for 6 weeks or more after stopping, this is why clomid 'PCT' seems to work, because most people get tested during this period where the metabolites are still active, you can't "restart" your testosterone production by stimulating it.
First: Whenever you post bloodwork, always post the normal range you are given with it.

Acne is caused by one of three things (or a combination) Androgens, Estrogens, and/or Progesterones. Prolactin could theoretically contribute to these but it is unlikely.

You are most likely having estrogen-based acne from lower T levels. This doesn't mean your E is high, it just means your T is low so E has more dominance.

Your PCT is most likely causing this and you will need to stay off everything for much longer per my post above.

I'm sorry, but what should I do in such a state? I don't want to start using TRT doses of testosterone now - it would reduce my own production again.
Shouldn't I take HCG too? What is the reason for not using HCG?
 

Kaladryn

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HCG is fine when you are on, but when are you off and recovering, HCG throws a huge monkey wrench into everything. Your bloodwork looks good, you are recovering very well, give it a few months for your body to get used to normal levels of T and sex drive will return. ANYTHING you do to manipulate your hormones at this point will have an impact on your HPGA and will delay recovery. It is totally normal to have low sex drive after returning to normal T levels after being supraphysiological, even if all hormones have returned to normal, and it resolves over time.
 

STREETBANDIT

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HCG is fine when you are on, but when are you off and recovering, HCG throws a huge monkey wrench into everything. Your bloodwork looks good, you are recovering very well, give it a few months for your body to get used to normal levels of T and sex drive will return. ANYTHING you do to manipulate your hormones at this point will have an impact on your HPGA and will delay recovery. It is totally normal to have low sex drive after returning to normal T levels after being supraphysiological, even if all hormones have returned to normal, and it resolves over time.

Thank you very much Kaladryn for the answer.
My wife started to think I had a mistress when I wasn't so interested in her in sex. I have to explain it to her - but it's getting a little better as time goes on.

Unfortunately, I do not understand why / when to use HCG. I always thought that HCG restored testosterone levels to another level (testicular stimulation) and when it was low, I would add HCG again until it was normal.

Am I to understand this, after a cycle, PCT - HCG, Clomid, Anastrozole (as an E2 blocker) serves to trigger and stimulate testosterone production, but does not perform a full recovery function? PCT will only help wake up shrunken testicles, but will not fully restore them?

So full recovery will occur without PCT - for some time?
 

STREETBANDIT

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HCG is fine when you are on

When I'm on - is HCG used to stimulate the testicles during a cycle to avoid a large shrinkage of the testicles?

If so, is this use only for a long cycle? For example, 16 weeks? For shorter cycles (8 weeks) is the use of HCG important?

I'm sorry, my questions are probably trivial for you, but I'm a beginner and I'd like to understand from people who are experts.
The Internet contains a large amount of poor quality information and myths ...
 

STREETBANDIT

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you are recovering very well, give it a few months for your body to get used to normal levels of T and sex drive will return. ANYTHING you do to manipulate your hormones at this point will have an impact on your HPGA and will delay recovery.

So if someone uses the bridge between cycles and is turned on for 1 year, restoring to the original levels will be very difficult for him.

I wanted to get to a natural level after the cycle, fully recover and then start the next cycle again.

I've heard the statement that the post-cycle recovery time should be as long as the cycle. For example: cycle length 12 months - recovery period 12 months. Although everyone is different, it's probably not a bad statement.

Personally, I'm afraid that if I don't give a full recovery after the cycle and start earlier, I can irreversibly damage my testosterone production - I will never fully recover. Is my idea wrong? Am I afraid unnecessarily? A lot of professionals have been on for years, doesn't it really hurt them?
 

Kaladryn

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So if someone uses the bridge between cycles and is turned on for 1 year, restoring to the original levels will be very difficult for him.

I wanted to get to a natural level after the cycle, fully recover and then start the next cycle again.

I've heard the statement that the post-cycle recovery time should be as long as the cycle. For example: cycle length 12 months - recovery period 12 months. Although everyone is different, it's probably not a bad statement.

Personally, I'm afraid that if I don't give a full recovery after the cycle and start earlier, I can irreversibly damage my testosterone production - I will never fully recover. Is my idea wrong? Am I afraid unnecessarily? A lot of professionals have been on for years, doesn't it really hurt them?
You will probably never return to 100% pre-cycle levels, some people might return to 95% some people will only return to 50%, it seems to be different for everyone, there is a pretty big study on people stopping TRT and recovery was all over the place, some people took 6 months and some took several years, recovery amount was very different also.

Your levels look fully recovered to me from your bloodwork, do you think they are low? Unless you have a baseline you can't really judge them to be low, they look fine.
 

Kaladryn

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Thank you very much Kaladryn for the answer.
My wife started to think I had a mistress when I wasn't so interested in her in sex. I have to explain it to her - but it's getting a little better as time goes on.

Unfortunately, I do not understand why / when to use HCG. I always thought that HCG restored testosterone levels to another level (testicular stimulation) and when it was low, I would add HCG again until it was normal.

Am I to understand this, after a cycle, PCT - HCG, Clomid, Anastrozole (as an E2 blocker) serves to trigger and stimulate testosterone production, but does not perform a full recovery function? PCT will only help wake up shrunken testicles, but will not fully restore them?

So full recovery will occur without PCT - for some time?
HCG mimics LH and stimulates T, this raises E and shut downs GNRH which in turn shuts down LH, using HCG while on or towards the end of the cycle is the correct way, if it is used at all (HCG used less and less these days)
 

STREETBANDIT

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You will probably never return to 100% pre-cycle levels, some people might return to 95% some people will only return to 50%, it seems to be different for everyone, there is a pretty big study on people stopping TRT and recovery was all over the place, some people took 6 months and some took several years, recovery amount was very different also.

Yes, we are all different and we each react differently. You need to watch your body. The good news is, you wrote the information that after a TRT, you always recover. It depends on the body how long the recovery will take. So there is no reason to be afraid of TRT between cycles.
 

STREETBANDIT

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Your levels look fully recovered to me from your bloodwork, do you think they are low? Unless you have a baseline you can't really judge them to be low, they look fine.

Yes, I agree, without a basic baseline I don't have the opportunity now to find out what value I need to get to, or if I'm fully at my core values. It was a huge mistake not to go for tests before the start of my cycle.

Personally, I don't know if the levels are low, I'm not able to say that, I have no experience or knowledge. But what annoys me is acne and decreased libido. You wrote me that this was probably due to the predominance of estrogen over testosterone - even if my levels were OK. You wrote that if I want to stay clean, the problems will disappear and everything will be straightened out.

If I decide to increase testosterone levels:
- would you recommend TRT Testosterone to me like jaxino recommended?
- or would only an androgen like Proviron help? Could the androgen Proviron increase the ratio of testosterone to estrogen?
 

STREETBANDIT

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HCG mimics LH and stimulates T, this raises E and shut downs GNRH which in turn shuts down LH, using HCG while on or towards the end of the cycle is the correct way, if it is used at all (HCG used less and less these days)

Kaladryn, you are absolutely right, most acne appeared to me while taking HCG!!! I did not have any acne during my strong cycle. I didn't use Anastrozole while taking HCG and it was a mistake :( I hate the coach who gave me so bad advices.

With the use of HCG declining in recent days, what is the right way without HCG? Another kind of PCT?
 

Kaladryn

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Yes, we are all different and we each react differently. You need to watch your body. The good news is, you wrote the information that after a TRT, you always recover. It depends on the body how long the recovery will take. So there is no reason to be afraid of TRT between cycles.
This isn't what I said exactly, recovery happens, yes, but how much you recover is different for everyone, some people don't recover very well even after several years.

If you want it you'll have to find the study on TRT recovery, I don't have it on hand, it was circulating forums many years ago so it should be findable.

My recommendation is to stay off everything and allow sex drive to recover on its own.

Also, if you do TRT, I recommend doing it through a doctor, almost any GP can do it and it's cheap and covered by insurance. I don't recommend TRT for someone like yourself who has normal T levels while off, I don't think a doctor would either.
 

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