OFFSEASON eating??

Lenny · Apr 6, 2009

Okay guys, what is your thoughts on cheat meals in the offseason? Do you guys believe in eating a cheat meal every 3rd day? Or after each training session while keeping all the other meals clean? Or do you just believe in eating a ton of clean, wholesome meals? Or do you just eat in the offseason what you like?

I have always kept my eating fairly clean throughout the week in the offseason with the weekends as a time to enjoy foods of my liking. After this years competition prep I want to approach offseason with eating plenty of clean calories to grow and throwing in a big ass cheat meal every 3rd day (something like Wednesday and Saturday). I have never really pressed my offseason weight, but would like to make the most of the eating this time around. I love the training in the offseason, but just wanted to know how some of you approach the eating side of things.

Now...need to get my mind back into competition eating!

7_Deadly_Sins · Apr 6, 2009

I eat clean expect for once a month..then I have a big ol' cheat meal from some where.
Some times I go longer than a month..maybe 2 or 3 just depends I got my g/f down now, and it's my bday Monday, so I'm going out Sunday to a buffet.

b-boy · Apr 7, 2009

my thoughts have changed alot on offseason eating, i use to just shovel down the carbs and calories and didn't care as long as the scale went up and i got stronger. now im more into lower carbs (around 200grms) and more EFA's and good fats. I eat a lot more nuts and oils and alvacado's and keep my carbs low, but i have a whatever i want to eat meal on saturday (lately ive been keeping that meal pretty sane also) I honestly believe you grow better off more EFA's and a lower amount of carbs, I want just enough carbs to fuel my workout and promote growth and recovery, and keep my fat and cholesterol higher (from whole eggs).

AWN2004 · Apr 7, 2009

b-boy said:
my thoughts have changed alot on offseason eating, i use to just shovel down the carbs and calories and didn't care as long as the scale went up and i got stronger. now im more into lower carbs (around 200grms) and more EFA's and good fats. I eat a lot more nuts and oils and alvacado's and keep my carbs low, but i have a whatever i want to eat meal on saturday (lately ive been keeping that meal pretty sane also) I honestly believe you grow better off more EFA's and a lower amount of carbs, I want just enough carbs to fuel my workout and promote growth and recovery, and keep my fat and cholesterol higher (from whole eggs).

Higher EFA/Good fats = better hormone regulation/production

Thats where Im at as well. I toned down the carbs and now I try not to eat them past a certain point in my day and its all raw nuts or EFA's and green veggies with my meals. I tend to store fat and honestly this type of eating routine is working great for me. I have tons of energy and I don't feel deprived. If anything, when I do crave something its a fatty piece of meat or a burger. I dont crave sweets like I used to and thats a good thing.

unoigo · Apr 7, 2009

I've ate clean pretty much most of my life. When I started BBing I continued to eat clean. In the offseason I stay so full of clean food that I hardly even want a cheat. Not to mention the "Super" high days pretty much take care of any sweet cravings I have.

However, I have since incorportated a cheat meal once per week and can honestly say that I feel it helps keep my metabolism up as well as aids in growth.

Lenny · Apr 7, 2009

So, what do you guys do with regards to calories...do you believe if you want to be 215 pounds that you must eat like someone who is 215 pounds, etc. I know counting calories is tedious, but that is second nature to us bodybuilders now, we just know how much we are eating. I like the idea of healthy fats being part of the equation...alot of benefits to them. I am going to take a whole new approach this offseason, so thanks guys for the good information thus far!

buselmo · Apr 7, 2009

Lenny,
say you were doing 2 cardio sessions per day, training 6 days per week, eating 2000 cals of low/no carb, taking T3/clen/ephedrine, and you were holding on to your muscle mass really well while dieting... after you compete and it's over, if you say "you gotta eat like you're 215 lbs to get to 215 lbs" and you start the whole 3 days per week training, no cardio, no fat burners and you go by what some guys say "minimum 15 cals/lb of bodyweight you want to get to"... you will end up eating around 3200 cals... that's more than 1000 cals over what you were eating to maintain your muscle... not only that, but your two cardio sessions where you were burning 300 cals each are cancelled... meaning you add another 600 cals per day... and cancel out the fat burners... you add more calories...
if you go from a small deficit, to a 2000 calorie surplus overnight, you will gain a shit ton of fat and not much muscle.
If you want my opinion? you can enjoy life and gain muscle easily at the same time... just eat the same calories you were eating, or a bit more... and usually people have work in the morning and stick to meal until 5 pm or so, then they train... so there's probably a very small chance of cheating by that time... you drop the cardio, drop the fat burners and by that you have created a surplus. you can change the ratios of your macros if you want to fit your training and the look you want.
now, whenever you feel like a cheat meal, go out with your family or friends and eat a bite here and there just to satisfy your taste. what? like an extra 300 cals of junk every 2 or 3 days will sabotage your gains? if anything, they will increase them! if you get hungrier, add a meal every other day or so and see how it works out.

unoigo · Apr 7, 2009

Are you worried that a cheat meal here and there will make you sloppy and add fat?

My last prep was for 16 weeks. I had a cheat meal once a week until 10 weeks out. I had one at 8 and 6 weeks out also. And let me tell you, my cheat meals weren't "meals" like a steak and baked potato with some bread. They were all out feasts. Here's a pic of one of my meals.... Now I didn't always gorge like that, sometimes I used the cheat to go out and have dinner with my family but on the way home I would pick up a few more burgers, lol.

There is no way the body can store all the fat in one sitting. The meal will shock the body and elevate metabolism, even in the offseason. I always had my cheat meals in the evening and when I wake up, I'm drenched in sweat and hungry as hell!

As far as helping with gains, I can't explain it but when I added cheats last year at the end of my offseason, my gains started to increase. Not sure if it was just the calories or what, but I'm now a firm believer in using cheat meals as a tool..... both for increasing metabolism, aiding in offseason gains and overall sanity.

chris250 · Apr 7, 2009

Actully alot of what uniogo was saying is very true (if your lean)...I mean last year when I stayed pretty lean all summer long (around 5-6 months, I wasnt within 2 weeks of any show I wanted to do) I could eat low carbs (around 100 grams) and healthy fats (EFA's every meal) and high protein...And I would cycle my carb up days (like uniogo) about every wends and sat..Except my cheat meals were low fat carb sources, like kids cereal, muffins, pancakes with syrup, ect, ect...It didnt have to be super low fat, but low enough that you could still get that insulin spike...Man after eating that one huge carb up meal (sometimes 2 or 3) I would be sweeting like crazy and looked full and pretty damn dry...My conditioning was good, and got better, even though I was really even trying to lean out...But I grew to, cause my cals were higher on those two days, and the insulin spike made a huge difference...

chris

unoigo · Apr 7, 2009

Very true Chris. The key is staying somewhat lean, especially in the offseason.

For me, I get pretty heavy in the offseason but I'm not out of shape or sloppy. I'm guessing no more than 12% BF at the most and that is towards the end of the offseason. If you feel you are getting sloppy, then back off the cheats a bit. My advice would be to try some things and see how it goes. You have to learn your body and how it responds.

Do you work with anyone Lenny? I thought I read that you were working with Shelby.

Deus ex machina · Apr 7, 2009

I've been eating healthy for so long that when I want to cheat it is hard. I had KFC on last Saturday and I nearly puked. Well I also almost puked when I ate 1lbs of Tilapia for breakfast today. All well.

blade2007 · Apr 7, 2009

b-boy said:
my thoughts have changed alot on offseason eating, i use to just shovel down the carbs and calories and didn't care as long as the scale went up and i got stronger. now im more into lower carbs (around 200grms) and more EFA's and good fats. I eat a lot more nuts and oils and alvacado's and keep my carbs low, but i have a whatever i want to eat meal on saturday (lately ive been keeping that meal pretty sane also) I honestly believe you grow better off more EFA's and a lower amount of carbs, I want just enough carbs to fuel my workout and promote growth and recovery, and keep my fat and cholesterol higher (from whole eggs).

just touching on this b-boy.. im seeing a lot of people now days are taking this sort of approach, with the lower carb ( enough to fuel workout ), and the rest of the calories coming from protein and efa's.... I was just wondering whats the highest amount fat would you have per meal before increasing the carbs?

b-boy · Apr 7, 2009

blade2007 said:
just touching on this b-boy.. im seeing a lot of people now days are taking this sort of approach, with the lower carb ( enough to fuel workout ), and the rest of the calories coming from protein and efa's.... I was just wondering whats the highest amount fat would you have per meal before increasing the carbs?

honestly its all individual and you need to adjust things according to how your body is reacting, me and you might not be able to get away with the same things offseason due to differences in metabolism, insulin sens., and muscle mass. my fat intake is like 1.5 oz of cashews per meal or 2tlbs of natural peanut butter, or some pecans and 5 or 6 fish oil pills a meal. best thing to do IMHO is keep the carbs lower and fat high and have a good carb up day every now and then while keeping your fat low for that day.

blade2007 · Apr 7, 2009

b-boy said:
honestly its all individual and you need to adjust things according to how your body is reacting, me and you might not be able to get away with the same things offseason due to differences in metabolism, insulin sens., and muscle mass. my fat intake is like 1.5 oz of cashews per meal or 2tlbs of natural peanut butter, or some pecans and 5 or 6 fish oil pills a meal. best thing to do IMHO is keep the carbs lower and fat high and have a good carb up day every now and then while keeping your fat low for that day.

thanks bro... i here you on this, every one is different... iv;e done the higher fat thing before, and i felt great... on carbs, i feel (when i eat to much day in day out ) sloppy and bloated... and my face .. jeeeze bloats up like sh*t lol... im leaning everyday , thanks for your advice. I did try carb cycling approach high/med/low days which was ok....

madmick · Apr 7, 2009

I was aways the little skinny kid. I still have to over eat to gain weight. In the off season I eat almost what ever I want as long as I get in my protien and quality carbs I'm good to go. Once I clean it up and start to cut the weight comes off fairly quickly for me.

VitoBrata · Apr 7, 2009

unoigo said:
Are you worried that a cheat meal here and there will make you sloppy and add fat?

My last prep was for 16 weeks. I had a cheat meal once a week until 10 weeks out. I had one at 8 and 6 weeks out also. And let me tell you, my cheat meals weren't "meals" like a steak and baked potato with some bread. They were all out feasts. Here's a pic of one of my meals.... Now I didn't always gorge like that, sometimes I used the cheat to go out and have dinner with my family but on the way home I would pick up a few more burgers, lol.

There is no way the body can store all the fat in one sitting. The meal will shock the body and elevate metabolism, even in the offseason. I always had my cheat meals in the evening and when I wake up, I'm drenched in sweat and hungry as hell!

As far as helping with gains, I can't explain it but when I added cheats last year at the end of my offseason, my gains started to increase. Not sure if it was just the calories or what, but I'm now a firm believer in using cheat meals as a tool..... both for increasing metabolism, aiding in offseason gains and overall sanity.

Holy shit that looks good.

I think cheat meals do more good than harm.

VitoBrata · Apr 7, 2009

BTW I'm no pro but I think that fasting days may also play a role when used properly.

JonnyO · Apr 7, 2009

For me offseason eating I eat my meals all day and as long as I get in my protein/Pepto/LBA's in anything else is fair game. For example, my breakfast today was clean...1c steel cut oats with blueberries and strawberries mixed with 35g whey and 1c dry curd cottage cheese. My next meal I just ate now was 2 sirloin patties with melted feta, a slice of sour dough bread I pick up loaves fresh from the bakery and two Joe-Louis for dessert. I train hard in the gym and cardio I get from walking my dog twice a day and he's old so its a long painfully slow walk. I dont add bodyfat very easily so I can get away with it...for now lol. I also eat out with my wife for breakfast at least 2 times a week, lunch 2-3 times a week usually Dim-Sum or Sushi. I stay away from fast foods like McDonalds all the time though, IF Im in a rush and need something to take out I hit Arbys for a few large Roast beef Sandwiches and thats maybe once a week. I eat alot of peanut butter with my sourdough bread (even middle of the night once or twice with my LBA) and better believe Im pounding that bread back like it's going out of style as I begin contest prep the end of the month and hopefully I'll be sick of it by then cus if Im not I dont know what Im going to do without it in my life.

Lenny · Apr 7, 2009

buselmo said:
Lenny,
say you were doing 2 cardio sessions per day, training 6 days per week, eating 2000 cals of low/no carb, taking T3/clen/ephedrine, and you were holding on to your muscle mass really well while dieting... after you compete and it's over, if you say "you gotta eat like you're 215 lbs to get to 215 lbs" and you start the whole 3 days per week training, no cardio, no fat burners and you go by what some guys say "minimum 15 cals/lb of bodyweight you want to get to"... you will end up eating around 3200 cals... that's more than 1000 cals over what you were eating to maintain your muscle... not only that, but your two cardio sessions where you were burning 300 cals each are cancelled... meaning you add another 600 cals per day... and cancel out the fat burners... you add more calories...
if you go from a small deficit, to a 2000 calorie surplus overnight, you will gain a shit ton of fat and not much muscle.
If you want my opinion? you can enjoy life and gain muscle easily at the same time... just eat the same calories you were eating, or a bit more... and usually people have work in the morning and stick to meal until 5 pm or so, then they train... so there's probably a very small chance of cheating by that time... you drop the cardio, drop the fat burners and by that you have created a surplus. you can change the ratios of your macros if you want to fit your training and the look you want.
now, whenever you feel like a cheat meal, go out with your family or friends and eat a bite here and there just to satisfy your taste. what? like an extra 300 cals of junk every 2 or 3 days will sabotage your gains? if anything, they will increase them! if you get hungrier, add a meal every other day or so and see how it works out.

Buselmo, thanks for the great input...but I still plan on training 5-6 days a week with light cardio sessions 4-5 days a week in the offseason, so I figured that I crave a cheat meal once every 3 days...that I could indulge in a cheat meal post workout while maintaining all my other bodybuilding meals throughout the week. I figured I could always make a change if I need too. I just want to add some muscle mass onto this frame, so I figured something needs to change during the offseason.

Lenny · Apr 7, 2009

unoigo said:
Are you worried that a cheat meal here and there will make you sloppy and add fat?

My last prep was for 16 weeks. I had a cheat meal once a week until 10 weeks out. I had one at 8 and 6 weeks out also. And let me tell you, my cheat meals weren't "meals" like a steak and baked potato with some bread. They were all out feasts. Here's a pic of one of my meals.... Now I didn't always gorge like that, sometimes I used the cheat to go out and have dinner with my family but on the way home I would pick up a few more burgers, lol.

There is no way the body can store all the fat in one sitting. The meal will shock the body and elevate metabolism, even in the offseason. I always had my cheat meals in the evening and when I wake up, I'm drenched in sweat and hungry as hell!

As far as helping with gains, I can't explain it but when I added cheats last year at the end of my offseason, my gains started to increase. Not sure if it was just the calories or what, but I'm now a firm believer in using cheat meals as a tool..... both for increasing metabolism, aiding in offseason gains and overall sanity.

I was having a refeed day with emphasis on high carbs (500-700 carbs) all the way up until 10 weeks ago. I know several people who do this and that is why I was thinking about how do I approach this during my next offseason.

chris250 said:
Actully alot of what uniogo was saying is very true (if your lean)...I mean last year when I stayed pretty lean all summer long (around 5-6 months, I wasnt within 2 weeks of any show I wanted to do) I could eat low carbs (around 100 grams) and healthy fats (EFA's every meal) and high protein...And I would cycle my carb up days (like uniogo) about every wends and sat..Except my cheat meals were low fat carb sources, like kids cereal, muffins, pancakes with syrup, ect, ect...It didnt have to be super low fat, but low enough that you could still get that insulin spike...Man after eating that one huge carb up meal (sometimes 2 or 3) I would be sweeting like crazy and looked full and pretty damn dry...My conditioning was good, and got better, even though I was really even trying to lean out...But I grew to, cause my cals were higher on those two days, and the insulin spike made a huge difference...

chris

Chris250, that is somewhat the approach I wanted to take this time around. I stay pretty lean all year around and just would like to grow some new muscle onto my frame, so I know I need to get this body reacting to something new!

unoigo said:
Very true Chris. The key is staying somewhat lean, especially in the offseason.

For me, I get pretty heavy in the offseason but I'm not out of shape or sloppy. I'm guessing no more than 12% BF at the most and that is towards the end of the offseason. If you feel you are getting sloppy, then back off the cheats a bit. My advice would be to try some things and see how it goes. You have to learn your body and how it responds.

Do you work with anyone Lenny? I thought I read that you were working with Shelby.

I am not working with anyone currently and I will see what I need to do post May 30th to continue to grow in muscle mass. Just trying to get ideas, thoughts, etc...for an applicable approach to the offseason eating.