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OLD SCHOOL TRAINING IS IT A MYTH?

Vander_V

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Kilo Klub Member
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Feb 2, 2004
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Does this type a training really keep ones physique a certain way a certain look , does it keep one from becomming blocky or mis-shaped these questions ive been asking myself year after year and I do beleive the old tactics not only WORK but keep ones physique in check and pleasing in the right areas.

Now people seem to have there own opinions on the old training of lets say Arnolds day, some say it was a myth Arnold never used to lift heavy or he was a powerlifter or he lifted for high BV or high reps and sets in the 20s. What ever they did back then created a certain look we can all admit that, it not only created a certain look but kept the body very pleasing almost like art(as they displayed themselves in pumping iron at an art show). What made them keep such a small waist and fuller musle bellies.

Todays athelets dont even look like atheletes lol, some BBers of today look atrocious, Some have a great look but most do not posess the old school physiques , now what is this reasoning is it simply Gh or slin or whatever else we have available OR is it the style of training and tactics one uses , many people will argue high BV isnt the right approach or it causes CNS dammage or doesnt give you the proper time to recover, well I say tell that to the old school boys, they didnt have half the experience, gurus, drugs, testing, gym equipment ECT but still somehow managed to come out looking phenomenal.

Im my personal opinion I beleive a combination of High blood Volume and heavy lifting is the right way to go, Its like throwing a complete curve ball into your weekly program, at first your body wont reconize it and seem as if its not reacting , but by the 3rd week I have pumps beyond my skin, I did shoudlers the other day with my trainer and yes I have a trainer who specializes in certain tactics of old he uses alot of hands on training hes always got his hands somewhere wether creating negetive force or helping with the positive, sometimes its alternating every other rep??? crazy shit, I have never felt such an intense pump in my life in my shoulders infact they turned a purplish blue and im tan as hell so it was shocking, i flexed and saw a different type of skin and tightness if this makes sense, I dont know what to say except when i woke the next day I couldnt wave goodbye to my girl from the door cause i couldnt raise my arms that high do to the intense sorness, it wasnt pain just a tight soreness.

I wonder how much logic there is to this or what the true meaning behind these methods may lead to, I must admit Iam a firm beleiver of High BV but i also need a heavy day as well its a mix that I bleiev works best at keeping the body in check, who knows the exact truth about this it could be one of thsoe things that scientifically cannot be proven no matter how may tests are done, to me its a mystery.
 
Vander I like your shape. But comparing past bodybuilders to present I have to pick the present ones. I just think being able to get that big and freaky is awesome getting the muscles as big as possible is bodybuilding to me. The past guys look like alot of the amatuers do or heck even some of the guys at my gym who dont even compete.

I also think that the drug thing is a myth also steroids have been around a long time. There is always someone who will push it higher than what everyone else is doing. Always. The guys today who can not get big like Ruhlz or Coleman or Gustavo James etc. put the impression that they choose not to. Im am positive that these smaller supposedly "aethestic pleasing bodybuilders" if their is such a thing take the same amount of drugs etc as the other ones.

Nutrition training etc just my opinion I like the monsters. MM
 
massmonster32 said:
Vander I like your shape. But comparing past bodybuilders to present I have to pick the present ones. I just think being able to get that big and freaky is awesome getting the muscles as big as possible is bodybuilding to me. The past guys look like alot of the amatuers do or heck even some of the guys at my gym who dont even compete.

I also think that the drug thing is a myth also steroids have been around a long time. There is always someone who will push it higher than what everyone else is doing. Always. The guys today who can not get big like Ruhlz or Coleman or Gustavo James etc. put the impression that they choose not to. Im am positive that these smaller supposedly "aethestic pleasing bodybuilders" if their is such a thing take the same amount of drugs etc as the other ones.

Nutrition training etc just my opinion I like the monsters. MM

Big and Freaky? more like bloated and unhealthy looking:p I think people wish for ultimate size to make up for what ever insecurities they have in life , too much of anything is bad my friend, so when is the line drawn? what is too much? You say smaller physiques well yes but muscle bellies were just as big if not bigger? Look at Nubret, Arnold, Mentzer just to name a few, sleek looking with huge ass muscle bellies, guys that look like they can wipe there own ass and run without a bloated gut bouncing up and down lol.
 
Oh and BTW im not debating what physiques look better we all know 99% of humans would much rather look like Arnie/Nubret then Coleman/Cutler, of course thats because its what looks best and whats extremely desirable to the human race;) . Us bbers make up what percent maybe 1 lol so theres no real debate there but I appreciate your thoughts thanks for sharring.

Im talking about there training methods and being able to keep such a great look, thats the question at hand.
 
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Vander_V said:
Oh and BTW im not debating what physiques look better we all know 99% of humans would much rather look like Arnie/Nubret then Coleman/Cutler, of course thats because its what looks best and whats extremely desirable to the human race;) . Us bbers make up what percent maybe 1 lol so theres no real debate there but I appreciate your thoughts thanks for sharring.

Im talking about there training methods and being able to keep such a great look, thats the question at hand.
Bump this................
I wish there could be an upset once and again. Like when Ronnie was defeated at the GNC Show Of Strength by Gunter! I do enjoy seeing the monsters out there but I wish some of the smaller BB's (who are still big!) were allowed to do some damage every once in a while. Guys like Troy Alves and Dexter Jackson! They are still freaks. And whatever happend to physiques like Bob Paris? Yes, Bob Paris was gay, but his physique was simply amazing! I'd like to see a physique similar to his enter the IFBB and do well against those monsters! Bodybuilding needs to come back down to earth a bit. I'm curious what will happen to Ronnie's health when he finally begins to detrain.

And yes, I really do favor physiques like Arnold, Franco, Zane.
 
Go with VV on this one. I'd much rather see dudes with 33" waist then 40" waist even if they have chest like bulldozers.
 
Im quite surprised at how many of you like the "old school" look. Me I think it is more pleasing to the eye than some of todays guys, tight waist big chest, awesome.
 
well.. i prefer the physiques of today.. some look aweful.. so look great.. i think we associate the look of today with being unhealthy.. well,, news flash.. the physiques of the "ironage" were also unhealthy come contest day.. many will tell ya that arnold, sergio ect abuse aas in their day.. what they lacked was insulin, gh and a few other goodies and training knowledge.. if arnold had the gh and insulin.. he would have used them.. and training each bodypart three times a week with over twenty sets, i am am sure, was draining and unhealthy to the body..
what we are seeing today is the overabundance of guys.. who lack the genetics to be top pros and national amatuers and are playing catch up with drug abuse.. look at those who have great genetics for this sport and look great..david henry, dugdale, darrem, heath, cutler, jackson, coleman, martinez, ect.. there are some great physiques out there.. personally. arnolds physique is not appealing to me.. no legs, ect.. why would anyone want to look like arnold instead of henry, jackson, ect..
and by the way.. there are only so many guys who could ever aquire the mass of coleman, cutler, ect they just dont have the genes for that kind of mass.. most will never get like that regardless of the drug intake ect..
and trust me.. we can debate the physiques all day.. but, the general public finds arnold in his prime gross too.. and who cares what they think?.. we will never be mainstream.. but, that is another arguement entirely.. AND VANDER. BECAUSE A PERSON LIKES AND WANTS THE FREAKY PHYSIQUE DOES NOT MEAN HE IS INSECURE..lol.. it is what the person likes.. now, trying to constantly appeal to the public around you might be a sign of insecurity .. wink wink..lol
 
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LATS said:
well.. i prefer the physiques of today.. some look aweful.. so look great.. i think we associate the look of today with being unhealthy.. well,, news flash.. the physiques of the "ironage" were also unhealthy come contest day.. many will tell ya that arnold, sergio ect abuse aas in their day.. what they lacked was insulin, gh and a few other goodies and training knowledge.. if arnold had the gh and insulin.. he would have used them.. and training each bodypart three times a week with over twenty sets, i am am sure, was draining and unhealthy to the body..
what we are seeing today is the overabundance of guys.. who lack the genetics to be top pros and national amatuers and are playing catch up with drug abuse.. look at those who have great genetics for this sport and look great..david henry, dugdale, darrem, heath, cutler, jackson, coleman, martinez, ect.. there are some great physiques out there.. personally. arnolds physique is not appealing to me.. no legs, ect.. why would anyone want to look like arnold instead of henry, jackson, ect..
and by the way.. there are only so many guys who could ever aquire the mass of coleman, cutler, ect they just dont have the genes for that kind of mass.. most will never get like that regardless of the drug intake ect..
and trust me.. we can debate the physiques all day.. but, the general public finds arnold in his prime gross too.. and who cares what they think?.. we will never be mainstream.. but, that is another arguement entirely.. AND VANDER. BECAUSE A PERSON LIKES AND WANTS THE FREAKY PHYSIQUE DOES NOT MEAN HE IS INSECURE..lol.. it is what the person likes.. now, trying to constantly appeal to the public around you might be a sign of insecurity .. wink wink..lol
Im sorry bro but in my eyes people who want or wish to be so called FREAKY or bigger and bigger are extremely insecure, Those who can become huge without destroying themselves are what I call blessed, Im not talking about Coleman and the big boys Im talking about every other Bber who wishes to be the next big thing and wants that huge size along with the huge struggles and sides.

Once again we are NOT debating whos Physiques are better like I said before 99% of the entire human race wouldnt want to look like a Coleman or Cutler type of build but rather a Arnold or Nubret type we all know this to be true.

Plz keep to the topic at hand I think massmonster32 was off base when he replied and the rest has gone into a debate about whos better Arnold or Coleman lol , stick to the thread thanks.

Oh and thanks for the wise crack at the end lol hey if you think Im that kind of guy well you know me best right??? , peace bro.

This isnt apealing? to each there own

.
 

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Simple Answer. If it were the training then their would be more bodybuilders that look like that today because some still like that training style and use it.

So in conclusion it mus be the current drugs available.
 
Coleman trains as old school as it gets

If u watch any of Ronnies videos or even better watch him train, it is extremely old school. He trains exclusively with high reps, except the deadlift which i dont think he even does now. He is also one of the VERY FEW pros who train all their bodyparts TWICE IN ONE WEEK. Arnold was known and has stated in print that he trained everything 2-3 times in the offseason and 3 times precontest. I think this actually makes a huge difference for size. You dont get quite as strong as fast but do 1.5-2 times the work in one week. I DO THINK THAT SOME BODYPARTS RESPOND BETTER THIS WAY-arms, chest, calves-not shoulders due to indirect work from other exrcs. You can also go back to once a week and really get strong and break strength plateaus bc your body and cns is resting more. So to answer ur question Vander I think drugs do play a huge part cuz Ronnie for ex has trained the same since he started basically and changed his look when he met Chad.
 
BTW havent seen that pic of Nubret...hard to believe he only weighs 200 or so. Awesome genes/shape. Also those guys were not as big esp in clothes...small joints/frames. They truly showed that BB is sometimes an illusion. My dick is bigger than Nubret's wrist.
 
Vander ok I am not sure if you are aware of this or not but one reasonarnold trained such high volume is because he had to

According to his book (education of a bb) the only bb book I own?(bought used for a 1) after he won a bb contest the austrian army assigned him to working out as a job, if they came by and he was not lifting he would get in trouble, therefore he started doing high reps low weight to extend his workouts

Personally i think the more you can do with high volume(lower weight) the safer you are training I would glady lift 20lb dumbells if I thought I could grow that way

Yes Serge is awesome but rememeber next to Arnold in PIRON he looked like a child

Thats why the guys are so big you can look great at 200 standing by yourself you get lost next to a guy in the same shape but 50lbs heavier

Lets not forget guys like the blade, the other guys that look bloated are trying to stand next to Ronnie and there just not that big thats why they sacrifice conditioning, of course if your built like nasser you can never be the symetry guy and size is the only way to go, Not disagreeing I aspire to somedy look like on of the old school guys(not as big) but that just can't stand next to Ronnie on stage you can put up a picture of the two and say the other guy looks better but when they are standing next to each other it is not even close.

There is the phsyique that you would like to be able to walk around with all year and then there is the physique that will win a bb contest and they are no longer the same, yes I want to be a perfect 220 but no that should not beat Ronnie in a contest

Apologies as far as the training method high volume think most people do train that way(I don't count sets and I keep a good pace)I can not speak for pros but you tell us how many sets do you train?
 
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Volume also helps keep you in shape and prevent injury but some guys want to add as much wieght as possible(not me) to each his own

btw I saw your clip and that is as Big as anyone I think can get before becoming uncomfortable and obsessed but to each his own, you said you still drink a beer everynight that is balance
 
My Opinion

I think alot of the todays bodybuilders don't have that "look" simply because they weigh so much. If you look at some of the pros when the just turned pro or when they were younger they had that look. IT seems once a person gets so big it just looks awkward. And I agree with Vander in that the bobybuilders of the past looked way better. Their bodies looked like Art. I think they paid closer attention to having proportions back then. Purposely shrinking one muscle trying to bring another up to create that look. Today its just MASS MASS MASS. Pack it on.

Shape is highly genetic although i do believe if a bodypart is lagging there are things you could do to target the muscle better; get it to grow. If you have weak triceps and incorporate some new techniques to bring up the back head. You really didn't change its shape. You just brought up one of the 3 muscles that tie into the Tricep Complex. So Shape is a combination of Genetics and growing/shrinking certain muscles to try and create a desired look.

In reguards to High Volume Vs. Low Volume for Muscle building; If you looked at it from a completely scientific stand point. There is no doubt that Volume is the way to go. THe reason alot of people have a problem with it is because they try to attack every set and push it to the max. Overloading on weight and effort instead of letting the VOLUME fatigue the muscle. Most people use volume incorrectly.

Lower volume aslo works and ABSOLUTELY should be cycled into your training. There comes a point when adding more volume is useless and begins to become counterproductive. Time to focus on heavier loads.

This is quit obvious if you just look around. Take a person who has been doing high volume their whole life and switch to low volume. They grow. Now Take a person who has done low volume their whole life and put him on a "PROPER" high volume program and he will grow too. LUCIAN, our featured member is a prime example of this.

This is a form of Dual Factor Periodization. You need to cycle your training.

Most training programs are simply Fads or Opinions.
 
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Vander_V said:
Big and Freaky? more like bloated and unhealthy looking:p I think people wish for ultimate size to make up for what ever insecurities they have in life , too much of anything is bad my friend, so when is the line drawn? what is too much? You say smaller physiques well yes but muscle bellies were just as big if not bigger? Look at Nubret, Arnold, Mentzer just to name a few, sleek looking with huge ass muscle bellies, guys that look like they can wipe there own ass and run without a bloated gut bouncing up and down lol.

Old school bodybuilders trained with asthetics in mind while present day ones tend to just try to get everything as big as hell. I would say their appearance had less to do with the volume they trained with and more to do with their willingness to sacrifice size in certain bodyparts in order to appear proportional. An example of this would be if you either sacrificed size in your upper body to make your legs look proportional or laid off your upper body training and emphasized leg training to bring up your legs. I gather this sort of thing wasn't uncommon back then but is pretty uncommon now.

The trouble with what you said above is that bodybuilding is not a particularly healthy hobby and is in no way based on how healthy you are. In fact half the guys onstage are half dead, in what way is this healthy? This is true more so now but that is related to higher standards for leaness on stage, not how big they are. Mike Mentzer was addicted to meth and reportedly ate like crap, that sure sounds healthy.

If looking and being truly healthy is your goal bodybuilding is a pretty crappy way of going about it. Are you physically capable of running a mile? How about climbing a couple flights of stairs without getting winded? I'd say most bodybuilders couldn't do either and how healthy is that? But it doesn't matter in bodybuilding because it based entirely on appearance. What the average Joe considers a healthy-looking and desirable physique is the type that you find in a Men's Health magazine not Arnold or Mentzer.
 
nemo said:
Old school bodybuilders trained with asthetics in mind while present day ones tend to just try to get everything as big as hell. I would say their appearance had less to do with the volume they trained with and more to do with their willingness to sacrifice size in certain bodyparts in order to appear proportional. An example of this would be if you either sacrificed size in your upper body to make your legs look proportional or laid off your upper body training and emphasized leg training to bring up your legs. I gather this sort of thing wasn't uncommon back then but is pretty uncommon now.

The trouble with what you said above is that bodybuilding is not a particularly healthy hobby and is in no way based on how healthy you are. In fact half the guys onstage are half dead, in what way is this healthy? This is true more so now but that is related to higher standards for leaness on stage, not how big they are. Mike Mentzer was addicted to meth and reportedly ate like crap, that sure sounds healthy.

If looking and being truly healthy is your goal bodybuilding is a pretty crappy way of going about it. Are you physically capable of running a mile? How about climbing a couple flights of stairs without getting winded? I'd say most bodybuilders couldn't do either and how healthy is that? But it doesn't matter in bodybuilding because it based entirely on appearance. What the average Joe considers a healthy-looking and desirable physique is the type that you find in a Men's Health magazine not Arnold or Mentzer.
Good post bro I agree.

Oh and BTW i can run up a a couple flights of stairs without getting winded and run a mile 2x a week so i dont think I fit into that categorie, but it sure is sad to think so many arent able to do this :confused: and they call themsleves atheletes :p .

I hear ya most dudes would want an Arnold like phsysique no doubt it looks and makes much more sense then not being able to climb a flight of stairs 9 months outta the yr lol.
 
Conan21 said:
I think alot of the todays bodybuilders don't have that "look" simply because they weigh so much. If you look at some of the pros when the just turned pro or when they were younger they had that look. IT seems once a person gets so big it just looks awkward. And I agree with Vander in that the bobybuilders of the past looked way better. Their bodies looked like Art. I think they paid closer attention to having proportions back then. Purposely shrinking one muscle trying to bring another up to create that look. Today its just MASS MASS MASS. Pack it on.

Shape is highly genetic although i do believe if a bodypart is lagging there are things you could do to target the muscle better; get it to grow. If you have weak triceps and incorporate some new techniques to bring up the back head. You really didn't change its shape. You just brought up one of the 3 muscles that tie into the Tricep Complex. So Shape is a combination of Genetics and growing/shrinking certain muscles to try and create a desired look.

In reguards to High Volume Vs. Low Volume for Muscle building; If you looked at it from a completely scientific stand point. There is no doubt that Volume is the way to go. THe reason alot of people have a problem with it is because they try to attack every set and push it to the max. Overloading on weight and effort instead of letting the VOLUME fatigue the muscle. Most people use volume incorrectly.

Lower volume aslo works and ABSOLUTELY should be cycled into your training. There comes a point when adding more volume is useless and begins to become counterproductive. Time to focus on heavier loads.

This is quit obvious if you just look around. Take a person who has been doing high volume their whole life and switch to low volume. They grow. Now Take a person who has done low volume their whole life and put him on a "PROPER" high volume program and he will grow too. LUCIAN, our featured member is a prime example of this.

This is a form of Dual Factor Periodization. You need to cycle your training.

Most training programs are simply Fads or Opinions.
Good post as well makes sense.
 
well if you notice, take a contest physique like arnold's, his contest day conditioning would be a modern pro's conditioning at 8 weeks out or more..also it seems like the guys today are taking harsh diuretics too, not sure if it was like that way back when..not sure which i prefer, but the old school physique certainly has a novelty value to it..i know id also rather wear the old school longer trunks on stage, ive never felt comfortable in the damn near speedos we wear today..
 
Well, first off I'd be VERY happy looking like Arnold or Coleman :) :) :)

Anyway, I'd be willing to be the ab issue is either GH or Slin. The so called GH gut is likely a cause of either insulin resistance or increase in size of internal organs. A doctor can tell by pushing on the stomach which it is. My guess would be it's mostly insulin resistance as a result of massive gh and slin use. If you look at a lot of type 2 diabetics, unfortunately myself included, they have large stomachs, that if they are thin enough look like gh gut. I don't think it will go away. I was very thin in the arms and legs last year (not going so well this year :( ) and I still had a 40 inch waist. Most of the fat was internal, under the ab muscle. I'm unsure if it will go away over time, now that I'm under treatement. Or as I've learned when bodybuilders take simular meds to increase insulin sensitivy after a heavy gh/slin cycle. I don't think the mode of training has anything to do with it. They are coming on stage ripped, just the ab issue...
 

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